Sprint training vs. HIIT vs. long-distance cardio: which is the best?

[Carl-Richard]

4 hours ago, hyruga said:

Don't need to train so much 

Just have ample rest and eat well.

I have a friend aged 38 died due to a blood vessel burst in the brain. He worked too hard and didn't sleep well. Exercised hard but didn't eat well. Ate lots of oily stuff.

I'm offended by your lack of relevant answers.

[Carl-Richard]

On 9.11.2023 at 7:17 PM, The0Self said:

The cardiovascular effects of tread would probably mog sprinting with that much rest.

Have you tried it? The type of contractions your chest makes after a proper sprint is unmatched. The 4 minute rest is not really rest. It's 3 minutes struggling to regain your breath, and 1 minute to get ready to explode. The idea that the most optimal form of cardiovascular exercise must necessarily involve keeping your heart rate at a constant medium pace for a long period of time seems like an unquestioned dogma to me. Why do we understand that this is not the case with resistance training but not cardio?

Edited November 11, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[The0Self]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

Have you tried it? The type of contractions your chest makes after a proper sprint is unmatched. The 4 minute rest is not really rest. It's 3 minutes struggling to regain your breath, and 1 minute to get ready to explode. The idea that the most optimal form of cardiovascular exercise must necessarily involve keeping your heart rate at a constant medium pace for a long period of time seems like an unquestioned dogma to me. Why do we understand that this is not the case with resistance training but not cardio?

Of course. I’m very athletic. I just answered your question though, given the volumes you listed. Nothing to do with what’s optimal overall or challenging or whatnot — just the answer to you specific question. For instance, I do very little incline treadmill walking myself because I superset and giant set all my weight training exercises anyway. In fact sometimes I do implement the tread simply to ensure that my heart is never becoming the limiting factor, so that I can continue to use supersets for the simple purpose of squeezing more volume in a session. Incline db press + one arm db row + HLR is very taxing on the heart. But if we’re talking cardio and brain health for very little fatigue cost, incline treadmill walking at a target heart rate is a very direct intervention that works quite well, if not basically the best — particularly if you have a medium weight vest or pack on.

Edited November 11, 2023 by The0Self

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, The0Self said:

Of course. I’m very athletic. I just answered your question though, given the volumes you listed. Nothing to do with what’s optimal overall or challenging or whatnot — just the answer to you specific question. For instance, I do very little incline treadmill walking myself because I superset and giant set all my weight training exercises anyway. In fact sometimes I do implement the tread simply to ensure that my heart is never becoming the limiting factor, so that I can continue to use supersets for the simple purpose of squeezing more volume in a session. Incline db press + one arm db row + HLR is very taxing on the heart. But if we’re talking cardio and brain health for very little fatigue cost, incline treadmill walking at a target heart rate is a very direct intervention that works quite well, if not basically the best — particularly if you have a medium weight vest or pack on.

I get it. I just want someone to give me a black and white answer that probably doesn't exist: name a principle or mechanism for why medium heart rate over longer periods should necessarily be associated with better cardiovascular health than intense heart rate over shorter periods? (or vice versa). Is there such a thing as a golden "rep range" for cardio? (like the 6-12 rep range for hypertrophy).

Edited November 12, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[MuadDib]

@Carl-Richard You should examine the 'vascular' part of the cardiovascular health equation. Specifically peripheral vascular resistance. This will be different under high and medium intensity exercise as factors like lactose, oxygen, CO2, H2O and heat levels affect blood vessel expansion and contraction which affects the type of work the heart is performing i.e. high reps (High bpm) with low weight (low peripheral resistance) or lower reps (lower heart rate) with higher weight (higher peripheral resistance.
 

 

[The0Self]

5 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Is there such a thing as a golden "rep range" for cardio? (like the 6-12 rep range for hypertrophy).

Basically yeah (hypertrophy rep range is 5-30 btw with a sweet spot of 6-15), and it’d be in bpm — not sure precisely what it is though, but from what I’ve researched it’s clearly >130 and almost certainly 140+ bpm, yet of course the higher you go the higher the fatigue and the briefer you can do it for. If you keep it between 140 and 145 (or maybe up to 150-155 max but that may be pushing it), there is very, very low fatigue cost (including for the joints and CT if it’s a low impact exercise; if it doesn’t involve a significant % of 1rm for the fibers involved like something ill-advised for this like a stair climbing machine would) and therefore you can spend that fatigue elsewhere e.g. on exercises that effectively increase muscle mass (and therefore improve health since the muscle mass isn’t added on via exogenous hormones).

Edited November 12, 2023 by The0Self

[ZenAlex]

On 04/11/2023 at 11:16 PM, Carl-Richard said:

So I tried jogging 20 minutes 3 times a week sometime last year, but I stopped because it made me feel drained and weak, and actually significantly more anxious. I figured it had to do with increased levels of cortisol, which also decreases levels of testosterone (or so they say).
 

It could be because you're simply not used to it. It could also be an issue with blood sugar/hypoglycaemia. You have to give your body time to adapt. 

 

[Danioover9000]

@Carl-Richard

On 04/11/2023 at 11:16 PM, Carl-Richard said:

So I tried jogging 20 minutes 3 times a week sometime last year, but I stopped because it made me feel drained and weak, and actually significantly more anxious. I figured it had to do with increased levels of cortisol, which also decreases levels of testosterone (or so they say).

So I started thinking: how can I gain the benefits of cardiovascular exercise (e.g. increased blood flow to the brain) while limiting the systemic load that seems to cause elevated cortisol? Well, that is when I started doing 10-minute walks after every meal, but it's obviously not the same as vigorous cardiovascular exercise (but it has its own set of benefits), so I was a bit stuck for a while trying to find a suitable alternative.

Then just recently, I stumbled across the idea of sprint training. As the video claims, sprint training is associated with a massive increase in testosterone, rather than a slight decrease with long-distance cardio (according to some studies). So I started doing that recently, and it certainly made me more mentally sharp (but I probably should've eased myself into it, because I got a migraine and a lung infection the day after my 2nd sprint session; I never get migraines anymore and I rarely ever get sick either).

So there is a definitely a systemic load aspect, just by the fact that it likely weakened my immune system, but also I noticed a slight increase in anxiety. Maybe that is just how my brain is supposed to work. Maybe lifting weights without cardio puts me in a bit of a too mentally tranquil hyper-anabolic state, and that the place where my brain works the best is for some reason more prone to anxiety (and maybe it's just circumstantial and up to me to fix it, like social awkwardness).

On the other hand, I did not feel weak or drained like when I did 20-minute jogs. Another fun benefit is that you don't get that annoying burning sensation in your calves and soreness the day after (or at least I don't; maybe my fast-twitch muscle fibers are adapted to that level of strain from regular weight training).

I've also tried to think about why jogging for 20 minutes should lead to a higher systemic load in the first place, or the kind of systemic load that significantly elevates levels of cortisol, more so than sprint training (and weight training). I think it has something to do with rest times:

Let's say you run for 20 minutes straight, which involves a constant elevated heart rate, constant strain on the muscles, and constant recruitment of the respiratory system. It's essentially telling your body "this isn't going to end, we need more resources", hence you start tapping into the stress response; start secreting cortisol, increasing blood sugar levels, increasing energy to the muscles, etc.

On the other hand, if you sprint for 20 seconds and rest for 4 minutes (like suggested in the video), your respiratory system doesn't really engage before the last couple of seconds of the sprint, and then you let your muscles relax and let your heart rate drop almost back down to resting heart rate before the next set. It's similar for weight training, where you'll rest for maybe half of that time, but it's even less demanding for your respiratory system, so the stress response is even less.

And why should the recruitment of particularly the respiratory system lead to that type of systemic load and stress response involving particularly cortisol? Well, because the respiratory system is arguably the main system that feeds every organ in your body. If that system gets taxed, then you would need an equivalently global response to address it, which would be hormones like cortisol that e.g. elevate the global levels of glucose that impact all bodily tissues.

I'm of course not a physiology expert, so I would like to hear some of your guys' input: is my reasoning for why I prefer sprint training (and weigh training) over long-distance cardio scientifically sound? Is even the studies listed in the video scientifically sound? Was my negative reaction to the 20-minute jogs just because I wasn't adapted to it and that it's something I could've adapted to over time? What is the best option for cardiovascular health: sprints, high-intensity interval training, long-distance cardio, a combination, or something else?

By the way, I highly recommend walking 10 minutes after every meal. It's relaxing and refreshing, and my immune system has never been stronger (but a possible confound could be zinc tablets; take those too ).

   Wht not try boxing, or even do martial arts like kung fu? In southern Chinese martial arts they focus more on different stances and holds, like horse stance riding which is isometric for the glutes and quads, but also the inner calfs if you raise on balls of foot. While running has it's benefits and costs, just shadow boxing and working the bag and pads is stimulating enough for the cardiovascular system and other systems of the body.

   In fact, isometric exercises and just flexing and posing in front of mirror, that act of muscle contraction increases blood flow to braun because the muscle is squeezed.

   Nice thing about isometrics is that you get stronger and increase mund muscle connections and muscle coordination which increases endurance as the muscle is educated in how much force to generate and how long to maintain such force. All the while muscle size just slightly increases, and that's good because the bigger the muscles the more cortisol and stressful in maintaining huge muscle mass, which can effect energy levels. Having said that, a lot of yielding isometrics and one minute push ups among over very slow movement exercises under tension can increase muscle size.

[Carl-Richard]

Hmm...

"The Effects of Sprint Interval vs. Continuous Endurance Training on Physiological And Metabolic Adaptations in Young Healthy Adults":

Quote

The purpose of this study was to compare the effects of sprint interval training (SIT) and continuous endurance training (CET) on selected anthropometric, aerobic, and anaerobic performance indices as well as the blood lipid profile, inflammatory and muscle damage markers in healthy young males. Fifteen recreationally active male volunteers (age: 21.7 ±2.2 years, body mass: 83.0 ±8.0 kg, body height: 1.82 ±0.05 m) were divided into two groups according to their initial VO2max levels. Training programs were conducted 3 times per week for 7 weeks. The SIT program consisted of 4–6 Wingate anaerobic sprints with a 4.5 min recovery, while CET consisted of 30–50 min cycling at 60% VO2max. Biochemical, anthropometric and fitness assessments were performed both pre and post-intervention. Significant improvements in VO2max, anaerobic power and capacity, and VO2 utilization during the submaximal workout and significant decreases in body fat and in waist circumference after the intervention occurred in both SIT and CET groups. Significantly greater gross efficiency was measured in the CET group. No differences in the lipid profile or serum levels of inflammatory, myocardial and skeletal muscle damage markers were observed after the training period. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4327385/

 

HMMM... the endurance runners had a 12.6% increase in in VO2 max while the sprinters had a 18.8% increase. So I guess that answers my question  (yeah yeah, it's one study with limited generalizability, blah blah blah, I just wanted to bring it up ).

 

Also, a Quora submission:

Quote

Sprinters and marathon runners develop different types of cardiovascular adaptations due to the specific demands of their events. Sprinters typically have more explosive, powerful movements and develop a thicker left ventricle wall, which allows their hearts to pump blood more forcefully. On the other hand, marathon runners develop more efficient hearts with larger chambers and increased stroke volume to deliver more oxygenated blood to working muscles over longer periods of time. Both types of athletes have strong hearts, but their adaptations are geared towards the specific demands of their respective events.

https://www.quora.com/Do-sprinters-or-marathon-runners-have-stronger-hearts

So I guess I was onto something with that as well 

 

Other than that, I've been sprinting for about two months now and I love it. I only do it 1.75 times a week though (I already lift weights every other day, i.e. 3.5 days a week, and I run on every second off-day, i.e. 3.5/2 = 1.75). That means I can say I work out 3.5+1.75 = 5.25 times a week, which sounds like a lot to be honest (which is on top of my 3 daily 10-minute walks after each meal). At the same time, I deliberately reduced my resting times in the gym (for most of my lifts) down to 90 seconds (down from who the fuck knows; 3-5 minutes?), mostly for time efficiency reasons, but I also think it adds a bit of cardio, which is nice (and it certainly goes more naturally with my newfound cardiovascular health).

Edited January 18 by Carl-Richard