Do thoughts create time ?

[Javfly33]

Who have had that experience while tripping, that you are in that no thought awareness, thinking you are now enlightened for life, that you have "got it", that there's no way you are losing "this", and yet eventually you "lose it"?

Of course the mind will say..."is because you ingested a psychedelic, it last X hours, and then it starts to wear of".

Well that is the materialistic explanation. But that's not exactly what happens.

Inside the trip and when you are "enlightened" or in the state of no thought, there is clearly the revelation that there is NO TIME. There is always NOW, always. Time is not "moving". Is always NOw. You can not scape the NOW.

So how is possible that you "lose" the enlightened state? Is not because the psychedelic wears off. Is because you start to tell yourself that you are in that silent awareness state because you ingested a psychedelic (you project the responsability to the substance as it has some magic power) and thus as doing that, you fall "victim" to the consensual imagined properties of the psychedelic, which is:  is a drug that last X hours in the brain and then wears off, so Awareness by projecting authority to this beliefs and thoughts, it "creates" the illusion that indeed, the psychedelic is starting the wear off. (Nothing actually is wearing off, because the psychedelic is a complete "placebo" for you to Awaken).

After believing this thoughts and projections, slowly Fear start to arise a little bit. A thought here, a thought there. You decide to grasp them. Bum, you lost. Again enlightenment gone. Again the illusion of thoughts. 

You see the Trick? Is all created by thoughts, is fucking insane.

 

Edited October 31, 2023 by Javfly33

[Javfly33]

To the solipsistic warriors: "other" is also a thought 🤭

[Vibroverse]

Yeah, i believe the substance is placebo, but the belief that it affects your neurochemistry and your experience, your perception of reality, is very deep rooted. It is like you might even say that what keeps you on the ground is your belief in gravity, but it is so deeply rooted that it is almost impossible for you transcend that. It is all consciousness, but consciousness has layers within layers within layers, in a sense. 

 

Edited October 31, 2023 by Vibroverse

[Osaid]

You're not ever actually experiencing time, or time coming back. It is as experiential as thinking about a math equation. You are experiencing resistance to a believed thought form, and you label that resistance as "time."

What time exists as is very simple, it is just a word or number, like "Thursday" or "9am." When you see either of those, your identity immediately starts operating, you imagine yourself as something that exists inside of some universe where the time is currently 9am, but actually that part where you imagine yourself is completely unnecessary and it is not time, it is just an imagined ego self. The thought form in question is essentially just a very genuine belief that there exists some experience elsewhere that you can escape to which isn't your current experience.

You say that the mechanism of the psychedelic is placebo, which I contest is a misinterpretation. The idea that beliefs and thoughts are creating illusion, is just more beliefs and thoughts. And the idea that the psychedelic should have no power, and that it is just placebo, is also a belief and thought. The only way for you to access that conclusion is to imagine the idea that you took psychedelics in the first place.

Realizing that your knowledge and beliefs about experience are not existential does not give you some kind of power over experience, that is a misinterpretation of that insight, and that misinterpretation is itself belief and knowledge. It is not that beliefs and knowledge are untrue, invalid, false, or illusion, it is that very interpretation itself which is all of those things.

You are not going to override the entirety of existence by realizing that thoughts are imaginary. You can realize that in the baseline human state, and it does not transform you into something which is not human, it just recontextualizes the experience of being a human. Calling psychedelics placebo in this matter is as much placebo as saying "I am just imagining that food is going to fulfill my hunger" and then starving yourself to death.

Imagination and belief is a human phenomenon, you are not breaking the limits of reality by seeing that thoughts are not existential, you are simply seeing that limits and non-limits were a human interpretation of reality and that they never had anything to do with reality at all. 

You are using imagination to say that "psychedelics don't have any affect on me because they are imaginary", so the very thing you are criticizing is what you are using to criticize in the first place. Psychedelics not existing in your experience doesn't mean it has no effect on you, it simply means that it does not exist. The former meaning is based on an interpretation which actually sneakily assumes that psychedelics do exist, and that some sort of effect is "removed" as a result. It is not a true recognizing of the fact that psychedelics are imaginary. You are imagining that psychedelics are having an effect on you, but you are also imagining that they don't have an effect on you. Neither is true, both are imaginary.

These psychedelics can be very tricky in how they create narratives about reality, so be careful. If you don't have proper epistemology and grounding you will get twisted into adopting odd metaphysical ideas.

Experientially, if I had to describe what is happening, it is simply the case that certain memories and thought forms start arising again, and these memories and thought forms "pull you in" and "trigger" you back into your ego identity. This is why it's easy to be peaceful while meditating, but less easy when you are working the register at your 9-5, the latter situation creates lots of thoughts that trigger your identity. The psychedelics remove certain capacities which allow for your ego to form, so that there is no stimuli which can "pull you in" while the drug is active. But, from a biochemical perspective, the exact point where the chemical wears off is where the identity can sneak itself in again, because now your mind is back to its normal capabilities, and your normal capabilities include a very vivid sense of imagination which you entangle yourself in.

[LastThursday]

2 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Well that is the materialistic explanation.

In a sense all explanations are false. If you strip it right down, one moment you're "enlightened" and at some other moment you're not. That's a simpler explanation. Maybe that's less false? I don't know.

In general there seems to be a lot things were it doesn't matter what you think, it happens the same way every time anyway - that should be a flag to show you that there are situations were thought does not influence what happens.

2 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

there is NO TIME

No, there is just constant change. But it's hard to escape the feeling that the constant change happens at a constant rate. So time in the conventional sense is just an extrapolation of this constancy of change. This is what Galileo realised when a pendulum swings. But the deep question is why does it seem constant, and what does this even mean?

It's like there is a tug of war between constant change and constant stillness and they're both evenly matched. The stillness gives the world order and constancy and the change gives it chaos and creativity.

 

Edited October 31, 2023 by LastThursday

[Breakingthewall]

The human survival tool is the mind, and the mind creates the time, the line of events, to foresee events and react in advance, this makes humans survival machines. Animals can do this, but on another scale. They know that if the zebra is running in one direction, it will arrive at a certain place, and so on, but they don't perceive themselves as a timeline that evolves. Humans do, we can store a lot of time in our minds.  

But time are just ideas and if we don't want to get trapped in it we have to see it. The only reality is now, and time is within the now. 

[An young being]

Time is simply a tool of measurement, and thoughts or your sense of time perceive it as moving forward at a particular speed, depending on how fast you move from the first thought to the second one. Thoughts create time in the sense movement creates speed. 

Time is very essential to have any kind of experience as a living being. Without time there is no experience to be had, unless you become independent of time in one frame and you observe that frozen frame from another frame which indeed has time. We maybe able to play with time, but we can never become independent of time. There is no timeless experience as long as there is a body to perceive it. The only experience you can have without time is no experience.

[LastThursday]

1 hour ago, An young being said:

The only experience you can have without time is no experience.

Or you experience everything at once.

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

See, this is the kind of twisted reasoning that conflating the relative with the absolute will lead you towards.

A so-called awakening is a relative experience; if it were not relative, it could not be experienced. As such, it is an occurrence within time. What is time? It is a conceptual framework within duality (duality being that which makes experience possible); where there is experience, there is the perception of change, and where there is the perception of change, there is (the concept of) time. And you won't ever rationalize your way out of this.

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Bazooka Jesus

[gettoefl]

mind is moment making machine, stringing together moment after moment

time is how fast the mind sees

with a better mind your life could speed up to one day

god enjoys the slow boat and why not if you've created all the time in the world