How can you say that all environments are equal when they behave completely different

[NightHawkBuzz]

My views of people and environments have changed completely since my two completely different experiences in high school and college. 

In high school I went to an arts school that was in a bad area in my city. There were many kids at the school that were disrespectful, rude, loud and aggressive. There were fights that broke out constantly in the classroom. There was always chaos in the class.. We had security guards that would have to come in and break up fights that would happen. Literally one of our teachers resigned because of chaos that happened in our classroom so much. 

Also, since it was an arts school there were many homosexual kids that went there which was fine to me. However the issue became that the entire school's culture was about "outing" every single individual even if they weren't gay. Throughout all my years there I had to constantly be accused of being "gay" even though I never was just like all the other kids that went to the school because the whole culture of the school was about accusing everyone of being gay. 

Throughout my years of being at that school I and everyone else had to deal to with being accused of being gay and had to deal with homosexuality being forced upon us in an extreme way. 

There were a lot of kids that went there that were ghetto and extremely disrespectful. Also, it was an extremely liberal school so there were very little republicans. The day that Donald Trump was elected to office the entire school was mad and upset and anyone that said they supported Trump would have been probably been verbally and maybe even physically attacked. 

I was actually scared for my safety going to that school sometimes. The teachers had very little control over the class as some of them didn't know how to manage wild out of control kids. The teachers were very harsh as well.

Then I graduated high school and went to a much better private college in a much better part of the city. Most of the kids acted much differently. I wasn't harassed about my sexuality and the school was much more civilized. Also, people could have different political views without being attacked or criticized. I felt safer in that school then I did in my high school. 

So how can anyone honestly say that these two high schools and two different environments should be treated equally by everyone when they are completely different? 

Also, why should you treat these two environments and schools the same when they operate in two completely different ways? 

Edited October 29, 2023 by NightHawkBuzz

[Razard86]

All difference is relative and subjective.

[Pav]

11 hours ago, Razard86 said:

All difference is relative and subjective.

It's not subjective. One of those environments is more conducive to human flourishing than the other.

[Razard86]

10 minutes ago, Pav said:

It's not subjective. One of those environments is more conducive to human flourishing than the other.

That's your subjective opinion because you don't know the value of suffering. You have a bias towards the lack of suffering and pain. A fighter cannot get strong without pain, a person cannot achieve emotional resilience without receiving emotional pain, there is not strength without facing pain. Pain is weakness. We discover our strength through the facing of our pain, and that is how we grow stronger.

If a person fears physical pain they will never gain physical strength. If a person fears emotional pain they will never gain emotional strength. All weakness is just fear of being weak, fear of vulnerability. The fear of vulnerability is what makes you vulnerable. The embrace of vulnerability is what makes you strong.

I only know this because I suffered deeply in life, and that is why my suffering was more valuable than all the good times I had, because it revealed to me a strength I didn't know I had.

[Pav]

@Razard86 Environment does matter substantially in affecting your growth and happiness in life.

What about the child born in the third world so affected by malnutrition that his physical growth is severely stunted, is their potential the same as what it would be had they growth up in a safe household in the West with adequate nutrition?

Or consider Genie, a child who from the age of 20 months was kept locked in a dark room and tied to a chair by his father, being completely unable to move, deprived of any social interaction, left malnourished, and being beaten by her father if she made any noise. This environment left her unable to learn a language or develop social skills, and she became severely mentally handicapped overall. Are we to believe that the difference in this environment in fostering growth is only subjectively different to being raised in a loving household?

I saw a documentary about a poor Indian farmer who took out debt to cover a medical expense. Unable to pay it back him and his wife and young kids are forced to work under harsh and dangerous conditions in a brick factory for 14 hours a day, and will probably remain enslaved for the remainder of their lives. What is the value of their suffering? They may never have the opportunity to live out their lives with any of the opportunities for growth and actualisation that many of us in more privileged circumstances have. Does their suffering make them stronger than if they were to be free?

1 hour ago, Razard86 said:

I only know this because I suffered deeply in life, and that is why my suffering was more valuable than all the good times I had, because it revealed to me a strength I didn't know I had.

It is possible for suffering to motivate people to growth and to seek a way to better themselves and improve their situation. However in so many instances intense suffering can cripple people severely enough that they may never recover and can lead to suicide just to escape it.

Another point important to make is that suffering is not necessary for growth. Positive forms of motivation are incredibly powerful and more sustainable, for instance we may be motivated by a vision, curiosity, love, ect. Certain environments are better able to cultivate these forms of motivation than others.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Pav

[NightHawkBuzz]

6 hours ago, Pav said:

It's not subjective. One of those environments is more conducive to human flourishing than the other.

That's what I was thinking to. I am asking this question to because I want to become a politician.

How is a politician suppose to treat both of these environments the same when one is more better for human flourishing than the other.

It seems hard to treat these environments the exact same when they operate completely differently. 

[NightHawkBuzz]

How the hell is a politician suppose to treat these environments the exact same when they behave completely different? 

[Razard86]

On 10/29/2023 at 10:38 AM, Pav said:

@Razard86 Environment does matter substantially in affecting your growth and happiness in life.

What about the child born in the third world so affected by malnutrition that his physical growth is severely stunted, is their potential the same as what it would be had they growth up in a safe household in the West with adequate nutrition?

Or consider Genie, a child who from the age of 20 months was kept locked in a dark room and tied to a chair by his father, being completely unable to move, deprived of any social interaction, left malnourished, and being beaten by her father if she made any noise. This environment left her unable to learn a language or develop social skills, and she became severely mentally handicapped overall. Are we to believe that the difference in this environment in fostering growth is only subjectively different to being raised in a loving household?

I saw a documentary about a poor Indian farmer who took out debt to cover a medical expense. Unable to pay it back him and his wife and young kids are forced to work under harsh and dangerous conditions in a brick factory for 14 hours a day, and will probably remain enslaved for the remainder of their lives. What is the value of their suffering? They may never have the opportunity to live out their lives with any of the opportunities for growth and actualisation that many of us in more privileged circumstances have. Does their suffering make them stronger than if they were to be free?

It is possible for suffering to motivate people to growth and to seek a way to better themselves and improve their situation. However in so many instances intense suffering can cripple people severely enough that they may never recover and can lead to suicide just to escape it.

Another point important to make is that suffering is not necessary for growth. Positive forms of motivation are incredibly powerful and more sustainable, for instance we may be motivated by a vision, curiosity, love, ect. Certain environments are better able to cultivate these forms of motivation than others.

The problem you have is your so biased you can't see your left from your right. How do I know this? Because you make arguments against yourself? How do I know this...because you argue against a stance I never took. When did I say your environment doesn't affect your growth? All I stated is pain makes you stronger. If you run from pain you get weaker, and if you embrace pain you get stronger. That's how life works. That's the only point I made. Any other arguments or stances you present to argue....I never took. So what does that mean? It means that whole paragraph you wrote? You were arguing with yourself.

The purpose of pain is to teach you limitation, and also teach you that limitation can be expanded. A human is a limited being that can also expand its limits by constantly testing the edges of said limits. As it tests the edge of those same limits it is going to experience discomfort equal to how close to the edge of its limits it goes. 

Humans have the ability to heal and after the healing process their limits expand. A human has no clue what the limits of their expansion is unless they continually test it. But testing it is going to increase the pain/discomfort that they feel. That's it. It's that simple. Anything else you attach to any type of pain is just a story. The story that keeps you from facing pain is called a limiting belief. Why? Because you have adopted a belief that keeps you from expanding your limit and have thus limited yourself. 

I can tell from your posts you are very young and have not engaged in any type of competitive activity at the highest level. Only people who have done this sufficiently understand the nature of pain and why it exists.

[Razard86]

On 10/29/2023 at 10:38 AM, Pav said:

@Razard86 Environment does matter substantially in affecting your growth and happiness in life.

What about the child born in the third world so affected by malnutrition that his physical growth is severely stunted, is their potential the same as what it would be had they growth up in a safe household in the West with adequate nutrition?

Or consider Genie, a child who from the age of 20 months was kept locked in a dark room and tied to a chair by his father, being completely unable to move, deprived of any social interaction, left malnourished, and being beaten by her father if she made any noise. This environment left her unable to learn a language or develop social skills, and she became severely mentally handicapped overall. Are we to believe that the difference in this environment in fostering growth is only subjectively different to being raised in a loving household?

I saw a documentary about a poor Indian farmer who took out debt to cover a medical expense. Unable to pay it back him and his wife and young kids are forced to work under harsh and dangerous conditions in a brick factory for 14 hours a day, and will probably remain enslaved for the remainder of their lives. What is the value of their suffering? They may never have the opportunity to live out their lives with any of the opportunities for growth and actualisation that many of us in more privileged circumstances have. Does their suffering make them stronger than if they were to be free?

 

On 10/29/2023 at 10:38 AM, Pav said:

@Razard86 Environment does matter substantially in affecting your growth and happiness in life.

What about the child born in the third world so affected by malnutrition that his physical growth is severely stunted, is their potential the same as what it would be had they growth up in a safe household in the West with adequate nutrition?

Or consider Genie, a child who from the age of 20 months was kept locked in a dark room and tied to a chair by his father, being completely unable to move, deprived of any social interaction, left malnourished, and being beaten by her father if she made any noise. This environment left her unable to learn a language or develop social skills, and she became severely mentally handicapped overall. Are we to believe that the difference in this environment in fostering growth is only subjectively different to being raised in a loving household?

I saw a documentary about a poor Indian farmer who took out debt to cover a medical expense. Unable to pay it back him and his wife and young kids are forced to work under harsh and dangerous conditions in a brick factory for 14 hours a day, and will probably remain enslaved for the remainder of their lives. What is the value of their suffering? They may never have the opportunity to live out their lives with any of the opportunities for growth and actualisation that many of us in more privileged circumstances have. Does their suffering make them stronger than if they were to be free?

 

All suffering and evil serves good. So the suffering of others raises the collective empathy and inspires others to be more loving. If you didn't have people in other countries who suffered and a documentary made about them, you wouldn't be sharing this story with me. That documentary raised your awareness of how our actions can impact others, it also broadened your perspective to a global perspective.

So let me broaden your perspective a little more...what if I told you your life is NOT about YOU? That the cause of that very situation you brought up is because humans are selfish? What if I told you that if everybody was willing to give up a lot of their physical comforts we could solve world hunger and a whole host of problems? What if I told you that the same mechanism that makes you block someone on social media is the same mechanism that causes wars? 

So how God wakes us up, is reveals how our selfishness causes misery and suffering for others? The purpose of pain is to reveal our limits remember I said that? So the people who are suffering in those examples you gave is the expression of the limits of humanity's love. Until humanity realizes that their life is NOT about THEM but about sharing and caring for others....then this will continue to happen. The moral of the story of life is don't put conditions on your love because whatever conditions you put on your love is not actually love...its BUSINESS!!!

Business is about transactions and personal gain. Right now you are looking at a world built on profit and personal gain. Do you like what you see? What does a world built on the motto "If its good for me its good and fuck anybody else?" "Or what is in it for me?" Humanity is just taking a long time to realize that when you construct a world based on personal gain/profit...these are the results. Unconditional love DOES NOT make sense....unless everybody chips in. Even though its the highest form of intelligence, it can only be understood at the highest levels. 

[An young being]

On 29/10/2023 at 7:23 AM, NightHawkBuzz said:

Also, why should you treat these two environments and schools the same when they operate in two completely different ways? 

Treat it differently when it comes to evaluating how the environment affects the beings in it and what you can do to improve. Treat it the same when it comes to understanding how God loves every environment with equal love.