Contemplating Hedonism

[HMD]

What is ultimately wrong with Hedonism and what is the kernal of truth in it? 

“Pleasure is the first good. It is the beginning of every choice and every aversion. It is the absence of pain in the body and of troubles in the soul”

Hedonism is rampant in society, and we can unconsciously adopt that philosophy simply through social osmosis if we are not careful. And this is why I want to gather data on how can hedonism show up in your life? What negative effetcs can it have? How to counteract its effects, how to see the kernel of truth that it carries, etc. 

Please share your insights and any observations that you have. Thanks!

Edited October 28, 2023 by HMD

[HMD]

Definations: 

Oxford dictionary: the ethical theory that pleasure (in the sense of the satisfaction of desires) is the highest good and proper aim of human life.

Standard Encyclopedia  of Philosophy: The word ‘hedonism’ comes from the ancient Greek for ‘pleasure’. Psychological or motivational hedonism claims that only pleasure or pain motivates us. Ethical or evaluative hedonism claims that only pleasure has worth or value and only pain or displeasure has disvalue or the opposite of worth. 

Wikipedia: Applied to well-being or what is good for someone, it is the thesis that pleasure and suffering are the only components of well-being.

[HMD]

Hedonism:

Focus: Hedonism is primarily concerned with the pursuit of pleasure and the avoidance of pain as the ultimate motivators of human behavior.

Nature: It's a moral theory that places pleasure and happiness at the center of ethical decision-making, suggesting that the morally right action is the one that maximizes pleasure or minimizes pain.

Application: Hedonism provides a guideline for evaluating actions based on their ability to bring pleasure or reduce suffering.

[HMD]

https://youtube.com/shorts/gtCjmgfmLDA?si=8wQiZ4bEBxkjCTUz

[LastThursday]

Some throwaway thoughts that come to mind:

Maybe hedonism is more prevalent in affluent societies. In some way, hedonism seems to be disconnected from the everyday process of survival. If you have to constantly think about survival, that crowds out any non-survival related activities.

I think there's a strong human need to "be outside yourself" or "get out of your head". Parties, drugs, music, clubs, immersive games and so on all provide an alternate to normality.

If everyday reality is harsh or difficult, then maybe the only break from that is to have periods of hedonism as an escape. Maybe there is some survival component in it, if it allows someone to maintain good mental health.

I think that many religious societies or at least those were the culture has a religious history or undertone, shun hedonism. If strongly religious then the only hedonism allowed is to connect with God. Any other sort of hedonism is a corruption and possibly related to the Devil or other such negative things. Even nowadays non-organised dancing in the streets - as an example - would be seen as odd or even provocative. The late 80's rave culture in the UK springs to mind.

Hedonism could lead to addiction if the pleasure reward is high enough. Some drugs: nicotene, cocaine, heroine are super addictive precisely because of the high pleasure reward from them.

A large majority of people are not hedonistic in any way and they will view hedonism with distaste or suspicion. They will see it as some form of threat to their way of being.

I think there's an age component too. As you get older and you've tried many different hedonistic activities, the need to do them so much falls away. You kind of burn through the desire to engage with some hedonistic activities.

Hedonism is cultural mostly, large numbers engage in the same hedonistic activities (alcohol, clubs etc). There's nearly always some sort of negative side-effect from hedonism, such as addiction, high cost, come down, violence, loss of control.

 

 

[Davino]

Desire only creates more desire.

Desire longs for desirelessness.

Pleasure and pain come together, if you go up you will go down.

Most hedonic pursuits are just scratching the itch. 

 

Practically speaking you don't need to be dry, but pleasures should be far down in your list of priorities.

[An young being]

Hedonic treadmill is the answer to what's wrong with hedonism.

[rachMiel]

On 10/31/2023 at 9:31 AM, An young being said:

Hedonic treadmill 

"One must imagine Sisyphus happy." ?  

[HMD]

@LastThursday @Davino @An young beingthanks for the insight guys. Helped me a lot 

[HMD]

I now understand what’s wrong with hedonism. Ultimately, it’s selfish. If you go down the path of hedonism, you’re going down the path of devilry. 
 

I saw a man hit a dog with his car and then run away. At that moment it dawned on me that most people care about themselves and themselves only. Their pleasures, their wellness, their happiness. They don’t take responsibility of the suffering they cause, their hedonistic attitude blinds them to this. 

Edited November 6, 2023 by HMD

[LastThursday]

38 minutes ago, HMD said:

If you go down the path of hedonism, you’re going down the path of devilry. 

Everything in moderation is a good maxim to live by. Hedonism can turn into devilry, but it doesn't have to. Ultimately, pleasure is neither wrong nor right.

40 minutes ago, HMD said:

most people care about themselves and themselves only

That's mostly accurate. But running away from responsibility is not hedonism, instead that's selfishness and maybe even immaturity. I suspect the man didn't get pleasure from hitting the dog.

[An young being]

Devilry is when chasing pleasure affects others around you negatively. Otherwise pleasure mostly gets balanced by pain.

[rachMiel]

What's wrong with hedonism is, ultimately, what's wrong with any 'ism,' it tries to reduce the mystery (and mess!) that is the world to a tidy formula,  and living by formula, any formula, is not living freely. 

[gettoefl]

bottom line, to party every day to drink smoke eat until the cows come home and to bonk different partners whenever wherever

gets old mighty fast

and get you old and jaded and ostracised even faster

hedonism is the foolishly lived life, a waste of space existence, a blight of a life

your obituary will read - good bye good riddance have a burningly good time

and whatever you do, don't bother coming back here some time dear parasite

[Carl-Richard]

Hedonism doesn't work, because the world and the self is multi-faceted and constantly changing, and "pleasure" cannot be harvested infinitely from one single source, or just a few favorites. It's not in alignment with how reality works. On the other hand, when what you derive nourishment from is aligned with reality, it's called "meaning". Meaning is the basis of "eudaimonia", which stands in contrast to hedonism.

Meaning requires that you face pains, fears, conflict; generally what the hedonist tries to avoid; because that is what reality craves out of you for you to exist in reality. Meaning is not anti-thetical to pleasure or desire either. It just recognizes that pleasure doesn't last, and that you have many desires to tend to, both higher and lower, and that you can't afford to get stuck on just one limited strategy.

You have to be constantly moving in flow with reality. Reality is movement. If you stagnate, that is depression. If you chase just one thing, you stagnate. You need to do everything that makes you a full-fledged human: eat, drink, sleep, have sex, talk to people, be with friends, be with family, go to work, buy groceries, take out the trash, go for a walk, work out, enjoy hobbies, engage in rituals, seek understanding, connect with the sacred. You get so much more by doing these things to the best of your ability than to just sit and eat cake or watch porn or inject heroin.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[sholomar]

See Leo's "Happiness Spectrum" video... basically lower forms of pleasure leave you feeling empty inside because they don't give you a sense of pride of accomplishment ... it's so "easy" to sit around, smoke pot, play video games. If you can truly be at peace with these activities, great, but our genetic makeup tends to make us feel at our best when we achieve a goal that takes some level of difficulty to achieve.