Free Palestine? No thanks.

[Something Funny]

And then, when survivors of this attack grow up to hate Israel and form a new Hamas @Lila9 will be like:

Why are they still bitching about it? Why can't they just let go of their mom and dad being blown to bits? How dare they become resentful, those barbaric Palestinians, they only want Israels's destruction. Lots of people got bombs dropped on their heads throughout history and turned out to be fine, so why do those wicked Palestinians have to become terrorists???

Surprised pikachu face when those people then go and brutalise Israeli civilians in return. How could this have happened? Who could have predicted it?

Edited November 1, 2023 by Something Funny

[Lila9]

47 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

so just to confirm, you are okay with the below because Palestianians are basically animals anyway so it's not that big of a deal if the die, right?

This is what you think about me? So rude.

42 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

And then, when survivors of this attack grow up to hate Israel and form a new Hamas

This can be said on the survivors of Hamas terrorist attacks on Israel. Children who grew up seeing Arabs killing their people in the most horrific ways will be the future soldiers who will do everything to eliminate them.

 

[Something Funny]

1 hour ago, Lila9 said:

This is what you think about me? So rude

Then answer the question. How can you keep supporting Israel when they do shit like that?

1 hour ago, Lila9 said:

This can be said on the survivors of Hamas terrorist attacks on Israel. Children who grew up seeing Arabs killing their people in the most horrific ways will be the future soldiers who will do everything to eliminate them

Yeah the difference though is that Hamas is a terrrorist organisation while Israel is supposed to be a legitimate, civilized country. 

It actually says a lot about their methods if people are at the stage where they feel like it's okay to hold them to the same standards of savagery. 

[Something Funny]

@Lila9 I don't want to think that about you but what am I supposed to think?

[Lila9]

1 hour ago, Something Funny said:

Then answer the question. How can you keep supporting Israel when they do shit like that?

Why it bothers you that I support Israel? What's bad about supporting Israel? Don't I have the right or the soverty to have my own opinions? Why I have to think like you? Why do you so sure that the way you see the world is superior to mine?

1400 innocent civilians were massacred by psychopaths in such horrific ways and with such celebration only because they are Israeli. Isn't this a good enough reason to support Israel?

1 hour ago, Something Funny said:

Yeah the difference though is that Hamas is a terrrorist organisation while Israel is supposed to be a legitimate, civilized country. 

It actually says a lot about their methods if people are at the stage where they feel like it's okay to hold them to the same standards of savagery. 

No matter what Israel will do in this situation, there will be bad consequences. If Israel will do nothing with the terrorists, they will get stronger and commit even more horrific crimes. If it will try to eliminate them, everyone would whine about Israel doing genocide. People don't understand the difficult situation Israel is in. They don't care about Israel's survival, only about Palestinian survival.

1 hour ago, Something Funny said:

I don't want to think that about you but what am I supposed to think?

Just stop thinking, you only create more assumptions and fantasies in your mind that have nothing to do with they way I see things. 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Lila9

[zazen]

@Lila9  I see in your bio it's written Hamas is ISIS. They differ in that Hamas are resisting to keep a home land they can call a state, whilst ISIS are fighting for a global caliphate. Hamas are localist and nationalist, ISIS are Islamist globalists using the means of terror to achieve their goal - ISIS are far more extreme, radical and barbaric who interpret Islam in a radical manner.

Hamas are not terrorists as much as they are resistant fighters who use terrorist tactics for their end goal, in the same way Israel uses terror tactics for their end goal. The question can be, what is a better end goal? One which resists in order to exist as a state, or one who expels and displaces those for the establishment of not just a state, but an ethno-state. 

Edited November 1, 2023 by zazen

[Nivsch]

@Lila9 They won't understand until it reaches them.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Nivsch

[Lila9]

11 hours ago, zazen said:

@Lila9  I see in your bio it's written Hamas is ISIS. They differ in that Hamas are resisting to keep a home land they can call a state, whilst ISIS are fighting for a global caliphate. Hamas are localist and nationalist, ISIS are Islamist globalists using the means of terror to achieve their goal - ISIS are far more extreme, radical and barbaric who interpret Islam in a radical manner.

Hamas are not terrorists as much as they are resistant fighters who use terrorist tactics for their end goal, in the same way Israel uses terror tactics for their end goal. The question can be, what is a better end goal? One which resists in order to exist as a state, or one who expels and displaces those for the establishment of not just a state, but an ethno-state. 

Yes, Hamas is ISIS. Wake up. They carry with them ISIS flags, they hold ISIS ideology dear to their hearts, they did ISIS like crimes in innocent people on the 7th of October. If in the past there was a doubt, now there isn't. 

Hamas use Palestinians cynically to reach their ultimate goal which equals to the goal of ISIS and Nazis.

Hamas are a religious movement, they are Islamists who want Palestine to be under the Islamic Shriiet instead of democracy. They don't care about human rights, women rights, animals rights, LGBTQ++ rights, they are antisemitic who would like to eliminate Jews. They do care about free Palestine and Al Aqsa from the sinners in the name of Allah, even if it means to die as "shaids" and sacrifice innocent civilians on the way. They don't value life, they don't value human life, they value death.

They chase homosexuals and execute them. They kill their sisters, mothers and wives when if they don't follow the Shriiet rules, they see people who took lives of innocent people as heroes.

And then after they reach this goal of "free Palestine" they are going to fight with everyone else and it would be expressed in suicide bombers in LGBTQ clubs in Europe i.e. 

And another dictatorship in the middle east, more war, more death, more radicalized middle east.

You blindly and unawarengly, out of your naivity (not only yours) support more devilry in the world if you really believe that they do what they do to make a better life in Palestine and live peacefully there.

With all the billions they are holding, they could have done such a good life in Gaza and maybe even in the West Bank if they weren't a red terrorist organization, per Spiral Dynamics and this, every person with good understanding of SD, on this forum can easily see. 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by Lila9

[zazen]

@Lila9  That ISIS flag could have been easily put there to associate them and use that as propaganda - Israel has a history of lying multiple times, or it could be one of the terrorists carrying it yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean the whole organisation is ISIS.

They chase and kill LGBT and women and children for not following Sharia? Do you have any proof for this?

They are a movement who happen to be religious, that doesn't mean they are primarily a radical religious movement like ISIS. Are the settlers a radical religious movement? Or are there settlers who just happen to be religious and yes, among them their are radical religious individuals as well.

Cope paste and search the below as the link isn't able to embed:

https://time.com/6329776/hamas-isis-gaza/

Some quotes from the article:

''Gershon Baskin, who has been Israel’s lead hostage negotiator with Hamas since 2006, told me recently: “Its acts of terrorism resemble ISIS, but they don’t have the same ideology.”

''Hamas is religiously conservative, but it does not ruthlessly harass or kill non-Muslims in Gaza simply because of their faith or religious comportment. It tolerates women who don’t wear the hijab, people who sport tattoos, and teenagers who listen to American music. Christians and churches also coexist with Muslims in the Hamas-run enclave. None of this would have been possible under ISIS, a far more religiously extremist organization that tortured and mutilated people to compel their adherence to an ultra-radical version of Islam.''

''comparisons between Hamas and ISIS abound in part because they can be politically useful. Insisting that Hamas is ISIS enables Israeli leaders to muffle criticism of the country’s treatment of Palestinians, including airstrikes in Gaza since Oct. 7 that have left at least 8,000 people dead, two-thirds of them women and children. The conflation could also help win over U.S. leaders and public opinion. ''

 

 

Whilst having a religious state isn't ideal as opposed to a secular one, neither is having a ethno-state. In an Islamic state of past non Muslims including Jews lived in peace and prospered, although that wouldn't happen in a radical Islamic state like ISIS. But Israel are racist, they don't even allow DNA tests because they want Israeli's to believe they are only from this land and they mock and denigrate non white Jews - even sterilising the large Ethiopian Jewish population.

Israel Forcibly Injected African Immigrants with Birth Control, Report Claims (forbes.com)

''This weekend, a report revealing that African women immigrating to Israel were subjected to mandatory contraceptive injections, effectively amounting to forced (if temporary) sterilization made global headlines.

Some 130,000 Ethiopians, most of them Jewish, live in Israel. The community experiences higher poverty and unemployment rates than the rest of the  country's Jewish population.  In the past decade, the birth rate among Ethiopian-Israelis has declined by at least 20 percent.  Advocacy groups now claim this decline is the result of a birth control regimen forced upon Ethiopian immigrant women.

According to an article in Haaretz, an Israeli news source, one Ethiopian immigrant said that the doctors who injected her claimed that “people who frequently give birth suffer.”

Edited November 2, 2023 by zazen

[Nivsch]

@Lila9 I think that arguing about If hamas is like Isis or not will automaticly make the hamas=isis side loose points because it will make us seen as we insecure about this question. Sometimes when the answer is so clear and any other answer is rediculous, even letting a sliver of discussion is a mistake who wants to think they are not the same, will keep thinking that anyway even if hamas will kill 6,000,000 jews. I fear this discussion cannot be won in logical tools, as just as me and your's claims will be. Logic is just not strong enough, not as post-logic discussion which is much more efficient to truth seeking. I has fallen to the logic trap all those last 2 weeks here and it doesnt work. Who doesnt live here, doesnt see interviews and Israelis in his eyes and doesnt take Israel's perspective seriousely will just not understand. Its frustrating but true.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Nivsch

[DawnC]

33 minutes ago, zazen said:

@Lila9  That ISIS flag could have been easily put there to associate them and use that as propaganda - Israel has a history of lying multiple times, or it could be one of the terrorists carrying it yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean the whole organisation is ISIS.

They chase and kill LGBT and women and children for not following Sharia? Do you have any proof for this?

They are a movement who happen to be religious, that doesn't mean they are primarily a radical religious movement like ISIS.

Are the settlers a radical religious movement? Or are there settlers who just happen to be religious and yes, among them their are radical religious individuals as well.

Cope paste and search the below as the link isn't able to embed:

https://time.com/6329776/hamas-isis-gaza/

Some quotes from the article:

''Gershon Baskin, who has been Israel’s lead hostage negotiator with Hamas since 2006, told me recently: “Its acts of terrorism resemble ISIS, but they don’t have the same ideology.”

''Hamas is religiously conservative, but it does not ruthlessly harass or kill non-Muslims in Gaza simply because of their faith or religious comportment. It tolerates women who don’t wear the hijab, people who sport tattoos, and teenagers who listen to American music. Christians and churches also coexist with Muslims in the Hamas-run enclave. None of this would have been possible under ISIS, a far more religiously extremist organization that tortured and mutilated people to compel their adherence to an ultra-radical version of Islam.''

''comparisons between Hamas and ISIS abound in part because they can be politically useful. Insisting that Hamas is ISIS enables Israeli leaders to muffle criticism of the country’s treatment of Palestinians, including airstrikes in Gaza since Oct. 7 that have left at least 8,000 people dead, two-thirds of them women and children. The conflation could also help win over U.S. leaders and public opinion. ''

 

 

Whilst having a religious state isn't ideal as opposed to a secular one, neither is having a ethno-state. In an Islamic state of past non Muslims including Jews lived in peace and prospered, although that wouldn't happen in a radical Islamic state like ISIS. But Israel are racist, they don't even allow DNA tests because they want Israeli's to believe they are only from this land and they mock and denigrate non white Jews - even sterilising the large Ethiopian Jewish population.

Israel Forcibly Injected African Immigrants with Birth Control, Report Claims (forbes.com)

''This weekend, a report revealing that African women immigrating to Israel were subjected to mandatory contraceptive injections, effectively amounting to forced (if temporary) sterilization made global headlines.

Some 130,000 Ethiopians, most of them Jewish, live in Israel. The community experiences higher poverty and unemployment rates than the rest of the  country's Jewish population.  In the past decade, the birth rate among Ethiopian-Israelis has declined by at least 20 percent.  Advocacy groups now claim this decline is the result of a birth control regimen forced upon Ethiopian immigrant women.

According to an article in Haaretz, an Israeli news source, one Ethiopian immigrant said that the doctors who injected her claimed that “people who frequently give birth suffer.”

I don't know whether it is true or not, and there might be some differences. But their fundamental ideology is the same. I recommend reading their covenant. You can also research lgbt's who left Gaza for example. Of course these comparisons can be politically used. That doesn't mean they are not grounded in actual behavior and mindset.

But the comparison is actually irrelevant. Do the research and ask yourself. How would you describe them? How would you describe their internal regime? How would you describe their covenant? Did you view the videos and testimonies of what they have done on 7/10? How would you describe it? What would you have done if such a regime was on your borders?

Israel has many internal problems, some of which include racism. Western societies also have them. That doesn't make them comparable to Hamas. They are deeply, fundamentally not the same.

Edited November 2, 2023 by DawnC

[Gennadiy1981]

17 hours ago, zazen said:

@Lila9  I see in your bio it's written Hamas is ISIS.

 

See to @zazen Hamas  is not Isis and I will be using all @zazen of the world as a conceptual person. The answer is very simple, ISIS is danger to all nations and his survival instinct kicked in, while Hamas only hates Jews, so the enemy of my enemy can be my friend. Jordan Peterson said the same thing recently on Pierce Morgan show.

[Lila9]

Israeli Arabs got asked who do they want as their government, Israel or Palestine:

 

[Nivsch]

49 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Israeli Arabs got asked who do they want as their government, Israel or Palestine:

 

They are great!

They know better than most of the UK citizens who have probably too much democracy so they start to crave the roughness from early stages, which they can find in the palestinians, what makes them support them more. An insight from now.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Nivsch

[Something Funny]

On 11/1/2023 at 9:08 AM, Lila9 said:

Just stop thinking, you only create more assumptions and fantasies in your mind that have nothing to do with they way I see things. 

I am sorry for being rude to you and making assumptions. I was wrong.

Do you mind explaining the way you actually see things? 

[ChrisZoZo]

@Lila9 be open-minded as Israelis are i’m and watch a  debunking of this video. From someone who has have PhD’s in this subject.

Edited November 4, 2023 by ChrisZoZo

[Loveeee]

23 minutes ago, ChrisZoZo said:

@Lila9 be open-minded as Israelis are i’m and watch a  debunking of this video. From someone who has have PhD’s in this subject.

Where's the debunking video ?

[Lila9]

12 hours ago, Nivsch said:

They are great!

They know better than most of the UK citizens who have probably too much democracy so they start to crave the roughness from early stages, which they can find in the palestinians, what makes them support them more. An insight from now.

It's really heartwarming to watch.

And yes the western comfortable life disconnects people from how bad things can be and how valuable democracy is. 

[Lila9]

11 hours ago, Something Funny said:

I am sorry for being rude to you and making assumptions. I was wrong.

Do you mind explaining the way you actually see things? 

You think that I support Israel from ill intentions of supporting things like genocide and occupation in the classical definition but from my pov I don't see genocide nor occupation.

I see a democratic country who have to deal with terrorists and put strong boundaries, to ensure its existence. And not only one group of them, there are threats from all the corners.

I see country who does everything to defend its people and to treat its enemies the best it can, given the circumstances.

I see country who must occupy territory, at this given moment, to ensure its safety, not necessarily to get stronger or richer.

I see country of persecuted minority who wishes to exist peacefully in the land they were explled from 2000 years ago.

I see this conflict not as a conflict between Israel and Palestine, but between blue/orange/green values and between purple/red/blue values. 

I know that conflicts are natural, especially conflicts about values which always happen. I know that I have preference for the first values rather than the second because they more suit mine. 

I don't think Israel is perfect, I don't think its current government is good or healthy, but I think that people put Israel on too high standards, certain standards they wouldn't have put themselves if they were in the same situation.

 

 

 

[Lila9]

3 hours ago, ChrisZoZo said:

@Lila9 be open-minded as Israelis are i’m and watch a  debunking of this video. From someone who has have PhD’s in this subject.

This is the same pro-palestinian narrative that I hear everywhere.

Looking at both narratives, the pro-israeli and the pro-palestinian, the pro-israeli makes more sense to me.

The pro-palestinian narrative sees Judaism, Zionism, Israel in general as some sort of modern nazis which I find not grounded in reality and even laughable comparison.

And all of this while they portray antisemitic, radical Islamistic terror organization which resemble Nazis more (and at the same level of development as Nazis were) as something legitimate.