The nucleus of the feeling of social anxiety/unworthiness/shame ...etc ?

[Javfly33]

I´ve been investigating that pain and that feeling and I think I know why it feels so bad.

I think in the root of it is that there is a belief or feeling of one being inherently bad, not worthy of Being oneself.

I think when someone rejects us or other situation happens that triggers us that pain, what really happens is that in a way we are experiencing again the belief "You are Bad". /You don't deserve Existing / You are not Good / You are the unworthy of Love.

Now the question would be how to stop believing that. More feeling it? More going deep into the pain? 

I think this belief is in the stomach, it seems like traumatic events from childhood (or past generation trauma), the body registers the horror of thinking one is unworthy, and is 'saved' in the stomach. That's why if you investigate next time you have 'social anxiety' you will feel nervous in the stomach. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Javfly33

[ted73104]

Great question, I believe that the approach to the problem has to be changed. If we place ourselves in a defensive mode trying to prevent "shameful or bad" events from happening, our inner energy will always be passive and the emotion of fear will occur whenever there is "danger". Sometimes we're stuck in this state where we just want to feel better or have some peace of mind, but at the same time we want something inherent to change. However it takes massive action to change, and we don't like the failures that come with the amount of action and trials that are needed to make this journey. We also don't like the boredom during the process of taking the actual steps of this journey.

To conquer the illusion of unworthiness, I would try to find a way to flip my thinking from how do I avoid the pain of unworthiness to how do I get positive motives and muster energy to pursue what I want again. The process of getting what we want will always contain a lot of effort and frustration preventing us from taking action. But by devising a plan and building discipline, we can move forward. Just focus on one thing at a time.

I know this sounds strange but I feel that it is in this struggle where we may gradually realize that maybe we never had to be a certain way to be "worthy". It may have been just something we deeply wanted that we couldn't get that is creating this illusion of "meaning/worthiness". We always wanted the world or people to be a certain way for us, but what if we could turn this around and give out love for other people instead. By giving out with no desire for any return, we can shift our mindset from the victim/defender to the provider/creator. We would feel different about our situation then.

[HMD]

@Javfly33 I overcame this same issue simply by facing more people, looking them in the eye, and a lot of introspection. 

I was bullied in my earlier years a lot. So I started seeing others as hostile, something to be careful around. So, it was difficult for me to look people in the eye and I had intense anxiety with people around (especially if new). 

But then I started pushing myself and challenged my fears by saying that no matter what happens it’ll be Love. And now I am miles ahead. 

Still haunts me sometimes though, deep trauma leaves some marks. 

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

@Javfly33

Have you tried therapy?

[Max Gross]

@Javfly33 oh buddy "welcome to the club, grab a drink and enjoy the show".  I hope my answer will be helpful to you.

The 2 most important aspects you should ingrain into yourself from all of this, are: You've been engaging with this with your conscious mind but majority of what you are experiencing (fear/anxiety) is coming from the subconscious mind and from your body (alternatively, you can think about it as you are waging a 3 front war but you've been assigning all your resources in 1 front only). Also, what you are probably realizing by now is that there is now one or a few ways to do the work you want to do and most of the advises you will receive might, most probably, not work for you. But don't let it discourage you, they are what they are, examples of how people got (or getting over) their anxiety/pain and you can learn from them.

Your reactions to anxiety and fear come from the subconscious mind. It plays a massive role in it and it's the main aspect in your life that is preventing you from simply "stop believing" in anxiety. It takes a more dominant role in your life then you realize and it basically becomes your conscious mind when you are asleep. All the trauma that led to your condition today and you have described it in very excellent words, was absorbed into the subconscious mind while you were developing as child and then was unaddressed for and building up for decades before your realized you need to deal with it. Unfortunately, today as an adult the subconscious mind is extremely set in stone and is difficult to recondition.

You will have to research about how the subconscious mind works and get to your own conclusions on how to tackle this aspect. But a good number 1 rule you can apply for yourself is that repetition & dedication must be applied to any method you want to engage in. That's the real hidden mechanic that leads to success in this. So what I mean is, let say you find a technique that you think is healthy for you to try to tackle fear/anxiety in the subconscious mind. You then make sure you do it daily. You implement the dedication & persistence by making a reminder on you smartphone/device and make sure it repeats itself on the highest level of alarm and obviously daily and indefinitely and then you set it to repeat several times a day just to remind you.

For me, I currently engage in some good old brain washing. I have one of those "Reprogram your mind for peace and calm" (you can find on youtube) running at night while I sleep. The relaxing feeling in the morning is awesome. Might not work for you though so take with a grain of salt. I do go and listened to the whole recording prior to putting it on before sleeping. We don't want any sneaky sentences 4 hours in, no we don't

I don't know if you notice or not but nor Leo or most of Actualize content is NOT [mostly; but when he does, he has some really good stuff] about body awareness yet unfortunately, its a major part (super, ultra, mega) important part..... well of pretty much everything in your life. The body, being its own thing, stores, reacts and released the trauma in its own way and you will have to get attuned to it. The body keeps a score, there is no way around it. Honestly, when you have a "gut feeling" moment, it's the gut assessing the situation independently from you the conscious mind and lets you know, quite well sometimes, what it thinks of the situation. Same like the subconscious mind, it was not addressed for for decades.

I will repeat myself here again, you will have to go to many sources and learn about how to connect to you to the body, feel it and help and its recovery process. 1 thing (among many) you can implement is a daily massage to your TMJ. Those are the muscles that are directly between your ears and your eyes. It's actually a good way for you to learn about body awareness. Follow my words now and you'll discover something interesting. Relax your face, you can let your jaw drop or keep it shut, it's doesn't matter. give it a few seconds. Feel those two sides and the muscles there, you will notice they are tense as fuck. Take 2 or 3 fingers on each hand and gently massage they, going from top of the (slightly above the middle of your eye line) all the way down to the bottom of the jaw while keeping your jaw slightly dropped the whole time. do it for 20-30 seconds. Wait for 5-10 seconds, can you feel it tense as fuck again? Congratulations, it may be the first time for you you notice it and now you aware it goes for 24/7 for decades. let it sink in buddy let it sink in...

Dancing is another great way to get body awareness, but it's a wide topic that deserves a thread of its own. If meditation is your thing. do the "do nothing" one that Leo teaches but modify it a bit so that you do not move, keep your eyes open and think about where in the body is the stress. Don't worry, soon after, the body will let you know where are all the stress. To release the stress from that area: concentrate on it, breath in deep and then when you breath out make release the stress as those you are are releasing a piss you've been holding for half an hour to the point you body gets limp and you have this stupid smile on you face. But those are stuff that helped me so don't know if it will help you.

And... if you are in a relationship. Fuck the partner off, you'll be doing yourself a massive relive in anxiety levels. If you are not in a relationship, don't rush there are plenty of partners out there.

I know buddy, It's not an easy journey.

[Osaid]

Well observed.

It is the belief that there is risk towards yourself in socializing which creates social anxiety. You have beliefs about yourself which you don't want to change, and you perceive social situations as something that can change those beliefs, so you act accordingly to prevent that from happening. Your emotions and bodily reactions are perfectly aligned with your intentions, which is to perpetuate the beliefs you have about yourself, but the permanent solution is to realize you aren't a belief. If you have beliefs about yourself, then the ideas that other people convey to you become a threat, because those ideas can change the beliefs you have about yourself, and thus it is a threat to your very existence, in a similar way that a wild animal would make you uneasy since it can physically harm you and affect your existence.

The stomach sensation is probably cortisol and adrenaline build up, or what is called butterflies in the stomach. It is a normal physiological reaction to situations which we want to avoid, in the same way how you would get adrenaline when avoiding a bear.

It can seem as if the solution is to simply "stop believing bad things about yourself" or something of that sort, but that is still in the realm of beliefs and it is just a changing of beliefs, so it is similar to fighting fire with fire. The root solution is more like realizing that it is actually impossible to believe a bad thing about yourself, or even think of yourself at all. It's not that social situations are causing social anxiety, it is the belief that you have about yourself in relation to that social situation which creates anxiety. Social anxiety = the belief which says "I am a bad person if this goes wrong." It is not the social situation, it is the belief about yourself that you create from inside of the social situation.

This is exactly why you can be sitting on your bed, remember some cringey thing you did a few years ago, and then completely relive that situation emotionally while being on your bed. You didn't enter a social situation, you remembered a social situation you had from a long time ago, and that memory triggered the exact same belief that occurred at that time, which then triggered the same emotional and physiological reaction as well.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Osaid

[Javfly33]

4 hours ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

@Javfly33

Have you tried therapy?

Yeah, that wasn't useful 😂 my hairdresser listens to me more than any "mental health" professional ever did 🙄

Edited October 27, 2023 by Javfly33

[Javfly33]

mainstream Therapists understand human mind, love and consciousness the same way Ants understand quantum physics 

 No offense to them though, they just understand the same as any other mortal: close to nothing. We are lost in the maze. 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Javfly33

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

15 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Yeah, that wasn't useful 😂 my hairdresser listens to me more than any "mental health" ever did 🙄

What kind of therapy have you tried? And how many therapists?

[Javfly33]

2 hours ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

What kind of therapy have you tried? And how many therapists?

Trust me, if therapists could solve things like this the world wouldn't need Ayahuasca, gurus, or what else 

Although the funny thing is that Ayahuasca or gurus neither can solve it.

Nobody knows, is unknown territory this stuff. At this point my best bet is that more suffering and being conscious of this pain will slowly get it out of my body, but who knows

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

@Javfly33

Again: What have you tried?

There is classic talk therapy, internal family systems therapy, gestalt therapy, primal therapy, neurofeedback, EMDR, hypnosis, energy healing... and the list goes on. You need to do research and find out which one is best suited for you. And of course, you also need to find the right therapist.

Trying out one kind of therapy with one random guy and then deciding that all therapy is BS is like popping Ecstacy at your friend's birthday party and then deciding that all psychedelics are crap. Or going to your local church, listening to a sermón and then deciding that all spiritual pursuit is nonsense.

If you want to get a proper understanding of trauma healing and therapeutic modules, I recommend this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Body-Keeps-Score-Healing-Trauma/dp/0143127748

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Bazooka Jesus

[Felliks]

Holotropic breathwork & magic mushrooms are pinnacles of what I know can help surface those pesky though loops.

The more I wait the more it stagnates.

The last time I did breathwork a LOT of pain suddenly appeared. A LOT more than I'm aware of now.

Basically spastic muscle contractions and crying. No way around it. Helped me get out of some shit, develop some shit, and waaaay more on its way.

[UnbornTao]

Grasp experientially the bottom line underlying the behavior. Go where you're doing it, so to speak; get it as an assumption that you're holding about yourself. Once done, getting free from it occurs naturally.

Edited November 5, 2023 by UnbornTao

[Javfly33]

18 hours ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

@Javfly33

Again: What have you tried?

There is classic talk therapy, internal family systems therapy, gestalt therapy, primal therapy, neurofeedback, EMDR, hypnosis, energy healing... and the list goes on. You need to do research and find out which one is best suited for you. And of course, you also need to find the right therapist.

Trying out one kind of therapy with one random guy and then deciding that all therapy is BS is like popping Ecstacy at your friend's birthday party and then deciding that all psychedelics are crap. Or going to your local church, listening to a sermón and then deciding that all spiritual pursuit is nonsense.

If you want to get a proper understanding of trauma healing and therapeutic modules, I recommend this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Body-Keeps-Score-Healing-Trauma/dp/0143127748

 

thanks, I´ll keep researching. But my experience is that all external tools are ultimately pointless. The root solution only can come from within 

 

[SeaMonster]

On 10/26/2023 at 6:06 PM, Javfly33 said:

Now the question would be how to stop believing that. More feeling it? More going deep into the pain? 

You have to act/behave like a person who has worth, and I don't necessarily mean "fake it till you make it" in social interactions.

What I mean is, this feeling of lacking self-worth isn't just some standalone phenomenon -- it is accompanied by a set of behaviors and habits that are, in essence, self-neglect or self-abuse.

So you have to figure out and make a list of these negative behaviors or absence of positive behaviors, and then begin remedying that.

This is pretty much what Ayuhuasca or a therapist would tell you anyway.  This isn't a mystery.

The unconscious mind (which generates your feelings) reacts differently when you act differently.

[hyruga]

You have to realize that we all lead a short life. Doesn't matter what accomplishments you have or have not done, you will all die within 200 years. 

So even if you have done nothing worthwhile till date or you have made millions of dollars, it's the same game of life.