Looking for a chemist.

[Schizophonia]

Hello, I do not have the necessary tools nor the experience to do this kind of synthesis.

If you are a chemist, or know chemistry or even pharmaceutical students who have access to a professional and/or university laboratory, I would like to provide a quote for the synthesis of imidazo[1',5':1,6]pyrido[3 ,4-b]indoles

N-acetyl 3,4-dihydro ß-carboline would be even better, but I have not found any synthesis protocol and the only description comes from the University of Montpellier and a patent from Professor Fourtillan (valentonine), it's is supposedly just a further acetylated form of 6 methoxy-harmalan.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Schizophonia

[Applegarden8]

If you are a chemist, please DON'T provide these details, because you are risking your career. If you are a chemist, you are probably on a watch-list for drug and explosive manufacture prevention.

[Schizophonia]

3 minutes ago, Applegarden8 said:

If you are a chemist, please DON'T provide these details, because you are risking your career. If you are a chemist, you are probably on a watch-list for drug and explosive manufacture prevention.

Lol, I want to make a supplement for sleep, but it's complicated because these products are still very marginal.
They are believed to be positive allosteric modulators of 5HT2C receptors, among others.

and this at a potency which is close to LSD, at least for N-acetyl 3,4-dihydro ß-carboline

[Applegarden8]

13 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Lol, I want to make a supplement for sleep, but it's complicated because these products are still very marginal.
They are believed to be positive allosteric modulators of 5HT2C receptors, among others.

and this at a potency which is close to LSD, at least for N-acetyl 3,4-dihydro ß-carboline

Whatever you are trying to do, you have no way of determining what is quantitatively there, what impurities (related compounds and other bi-products) you gather or if you even get what you think you are getting + the amount of residual solvents, elemental impurities, endotoxins and active bacteria  + flat out particles you introduce in your body, besides the point, just one methyl group or different isomer you gather (accidentally by doing something a little bit differently by a recepie which you don't know that it is any valid), you get entirely different chemical with different effects, besides side effects and unknown toxicity. You are playing with fire without any reasonable experience. Somebody can suggest you just synthesize about anything and you will do it and could potentially kill yourself.

If you have a sleeping problem, go to the doctor. Besides, you succeed and launch an illegal enterprise thinking that - i will just make and share a little bit more, involving other people and ruining their lives by their association with you. Please, don't do this. Get professional help. You maybe want to make a supplement, but you will create something that will deteriorate your quality of life in so many ways.

This is so fucking shady and irresponsible, sorry, i am out of this thread.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Applegarden8

[Schizophonia]

21 minutes ago, Applegarden8 said:

Whatever you are trying to do, you have no way of determining what is quantitatively there, what impurities (related compounds and other bi-products) you gather or if you even get what you think you are getting + the amount of residual solvents, elemental impurities + flat out particles you introduce in your body, besides the point, just one methyl group or different isomer you gather, you get entirely different chemical with different effects, besides side effects and unknown toxicity. You are playing with fire without any reasonable experience. Somebody can suggest you just synthesize about anything and you will do it and could potentially kill yourself.

It is precisely for this reason that I ask for a quote from a chemist where most laboratories do not want to bother synthesizing compounds that are outside their catalog.
If you are worried about the purity/reliability of your product, then having it tested by a university hospital or a specialized online laboratory (Janoshik, for example) is not so hard.

Quote

If you have a sleeping problem, go to the doctor.

Thanks for the advice, luckily you're here.

Btw, it's essentially for experimental purposes.

Quote

Besides, you succeed and launch an illegal enterprise thinking that - i will just make and share a little bit more, involving other people and ruining their lives by their association with you. Please, don't do this. Get professional help. You maybe want to make a supplement, but you will create ;something that will deteriorate your quality of life in so many ways.

Lol.

These are random molecules that are not legislated, I don't know why you are answering me as if it were about initiating heroin trafficking.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Schizophonia

[Applegarden8]

38 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

It is precisely for this reason that I ask for a quote from a chemist where most laboratories do not want to bother synthesizing compounds that are outside their catalog.

And this "chemist" can tell you just about anything and be as junkyard fellow as possible (in here, especially) and the worst part is that you will actually do what he says.

To get a quote? I wish you had an idea about how much is written down to the finest details and control parameters to synthesize something and prove its content, thousands of pages literally. If somebody tell you something verbally, you understand how ridiculous it is "oh, i will just implement and reproduce this" not to even exclude your error of you knowing something and adding something somewhere where you shouldn't or forgetting to do something, then you get something different, in a unsanitary place with questionable equipment.

38 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

If you are worried about the purity/reliability of your product, then having it tested by a university hospital or a specialized online laboratory (Janoshik, for example) is not so hard.

Haha, and they will send it to police/taken down by customs or other organization and do an express test and it may show positive (because it has some functional groups as some illegal drugs and is not very selective), then you will be for an amazing journey (i am being sarcastic, even if it's not an illegal product) of interrogations and questions and I am assuming if you want to synthesize you are keeping and buying them, and that will be caught or they will test you and it will show that you indeed have been using recently, and now you are up for some charges. Then they will check where you exist on the net and find you here and well, check what you are writing here maybe and it will help their investigation.

38 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

These are random molecules that are not legislated, I don't know why you are answering me as if it were about initiating heroin trafficking.

Following scenarios to this:

1. Not legislated yet, still you might get in legal trouble and going trough investigation and interrogation, months to stay 'clear" while you are on a more intense watch-list since you will keep doing it;

2. You gave it to somebody and somebody got sick, mentally ill or died and it can be proven that it was from your experimental drug;

3. You terribly fuck up your health with a help of your "chemist" friend;

4. Your "chemist" friend is found guilty for manufacturing, storing (something illegal by chance), and now you are part of his ring because he gave it to you and you gave it to somebody else, if you didn't even sell it;

5. Extra point for criminal history or future and how that can fuck up your life and snowball from experiment to a drug dealing and prison, addiction and so on.

6. "Chemist" friend can force/negotiate you to make something together, maybe make something illegal together, force you to make more at the cost of him not telling anybody or him not doing something to you or your loved ones. Or just placing something on your bag pocket, apartment and calling the cops. Or pay money to me or we will do something to you because you synthesize now.

I HOPE THIS HELPS TO CONVINCE YOU THAT THIS IS JUST NOT WORTH IT. I would advise to stay sober for life. You don't need these problems.

No more, I am out. You haven't even thought out about the consequences.

Problem is simple, you have a sleeping problem, focus on solving that with a professional and lifestyle solutions.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Applegarden8

[Schizophonia]

@Applegarden8 These are not difficult or dangerous molecules to make, and it is legal. But that requires equipment that I don't have. This involves ordering an extract from a person of at least universal level and having it tested. I usually said quote but in this case it was a transaction between individuals.
 

From there there is nothing to add, I don't know if you live in North Korea but where I am I don't risk interrogation because for sending a random molecule which could very well be sold by some wholesalers, lmao. And even if that were the case I don't give a damn, I piss in their ass.
 

I feel like I'm talking to a housewife who's afraid of "complicated things." It's not.

 

 

[Applegarden8]

53 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

@Applegarden8 These are not difficult or dangerous molecules to make, and it is legal. But that requires equipment that I don't have. This involves ordering an extract from a person of at least universal level and having it tested. I usually said quote but in this case it was a transaction between individuals.
 

From there there is nothing to add, I don't know if you live in North Korea but where I am I don't risk interrogation because for sending a random molecule which could very well be sold by some wholesalers, lmao. And even if that were the case I don't give a damn, I piss in their ass.

Well, go and listen to who says what you want to hear, i don't know what to tell you. I have seen something in this field like getting some people arrested, they also started "experimenting" and falsely accused me of manufacturing some drug just to get more time to hide the evidence for those who actually did it, yes, this actually happened.

You can't prove there is no danger, you simply can't. Maybe nothing will happen, maybe not and actually you have no clue what you are risking.

53 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

I feel like I'm talking to a housewife who's afraid of "complicated things." It's not.

Your arrogance is what i expected, then maybe you need to go trough this and feel invincible and then...

Just advising to think about it if you really need this shit.

By the way with the thousands of pages I was referring to organic synthesis not refinement of something that exists in nature already.

By the way if it's so "safe" why sourcing (even for legal research chemicals) is not allowed in this forum? And how can a research chemical be safe? It just makes me turn off my brain. If there were no clinical trials happening on animals or humans for this drug to research its effects then maybe only what is done is some pharmakinetic based estimations of what the drug can do, then how the hell can somebody conclude it is safe or predictible blows my mind. It has not even yet become illegal it is so new hahahaha (in case it is psychotropic).

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Applegarden8

[Princess Arabia]

3 hours ago, Applegarden8 said:

If you have a sleeping problem, go to the doctor

Not surprising with all the drugs he takes and recommends and soda he drinks. Now he wants to combat that with more drugs. @Schizophoniayou are ruining yourself. It's so obvious, but I will leave you alone on this matter from here on as it's not appropriate for me to intervene without your permission. Just don't overdo it too much to the point of no return. Love.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Princess Arabia

[MarkKol]

I know a chemist…

[Schizophonia]

15 hours ago, Applegarden8 said:

Well, go and listen to who says what you want to hear, i don't know what to tell you. I have seen something in this field like getting some people arrested, they also started "experimenting" and falsely accused me of manufacturing some drug just to get more time to hide the evidence for those who actually did it, yes, this actually happened.

Even if there is a 1% chance that I end up in the police station, and that happens, there is no problem.

Quote

You can't prove there is no danger, you simply can't. Maybe nothing will happen, maybe not and actually you have no clue what you are risking.

What danger? Do you suffer from paranoia?

I'm not going to deprive myself of experimenting and being avant-garde because that implies having responsibilities, I don't work like that.

Quote

Your arrogance is what i expected, then maybe you need to go trough this and feel invincible and then...

I don't know what arrogance you're talking about, maybe abusive projection?
All I did was ask if anyone is or knows a chemist capable of synthesizing a random molecule for me because most labs do not want to quote for products that are not in their catalog.

Quote

Just advising to think about it if you really need this shit.

By the way with the thousands of pages I was referring to organic synthesis not refinement of something that exists in nature already.

Lol, just that.
No, it takes a page or two and the patents can be found in less than a minute on Google.
The only problem is the overpriced equipment, space and logistics in general.
I'm not going to bother placing thousands of euros on orders from Sigma Aldrich and transforming my room into a laboratory to synthesize a random product with uncertain effectiveness.

Quote

By the way if it's so "safe" why sourcing (even for legal research chemicals) is not allowed in this forum?

No, only a small portion of "research products" are legal in most countries.
Sharing sources is the guarantee of sharing access to illicit products, particularly in the United States where actualized is based.

Quote

And how can a research chemical be safe? It just makes me turn off my brain.

It's just a vague and arbitrary name.

Quote

If there were no clinical trials happening on animals or humans for this drug to research its effects then maybe only what is done is some pharmakinetic based estimations of what the drug can do, then how the hell can somebody conclude it is safe or predictible blows my mind.

It is not because a molecule is not widely used and/or new that its pharmacology is not known/studied.

You can't know, because obviously reading dozens of pages of a patent is more complicated than lecturing on a forum on a subject that you don't even understand a little.

Quote

It has not even yet become illegal it is so new hahahaha (in case it is psychotropic).

Sorry, I don't live in North Korea, most of molecules are not "banned by default" because they are psychoactive or simply dangerous, lol.

Technically, if I wanted I could make industrial quantities of LSD within a few weeks, it's not that complicated and all the basic products are legal.

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Schizophonia

[Schizophonia]

13 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

Not surprising with all the drugs he takes and recommends and soda he drinks. Now he wants to combat that with more drugs. @Schizophoniayou are ruining yourself. It's so obvious, but I will leave you alone on this matter from here on as it's not appropriate for me to intervene without your permission. Just don't overdo it too much to the point of no return. Love.

 

What drug? What coke all day? Can you screen the messages where I say this? where like the majority of excessively emotional people you start to caricature me in such a way as to justify your hostility?

[Rigel]

Maybe trade all the time you spend searching for and trying new drugs with time working out? I'd wager it's gonna be more effective for your sleep.

[Princess Arabia]

2 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

 

What drug? What coke all day? Can you screen the messages where I say this? where like the majority of excessively emotional people you start to caricature me in such a way as to justify your hostility?

Never mind. I'm hostile now? Ok then. Where is the hostility. I'm going to leave you alone, like I said. No need for me to interfere in your business. Chow.

[Schizophonia]

1 hour ago, Rigel said:

Maybe trade all the time you spend searching for and trying new drugs with time working out?

Even when I no longer have problems, I will still search.

1 hour ago, Rigel said:

I'd wager it's gonna be more effective for your sleep.

 

I do more physical effort than 90% of people

I actually sleep better when I stop and eat more.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Schizophonia

[Applegarden8]

4 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

Lol, just that.
No, it takes a page or two and the patents can be found in less than a minute on Google.
The only problem is the overpriced equipment, space and logistics in general.

The thousand page document I am referring to is drug master file.

Yeah, patent without any quality assurance or predictable effect.

4 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

Even if there is a 1% chance that I end up in the police station, and that happens, there is no problem.

Let's agree to disagree. It will be a problem if it will happen.

I see your mindsets are different, and there is no point in interacting. 

5 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

Sorry, I don't live in North Korea, most of molecules are not "banned by default" because they are psychoactive or simply dangerous, lol.

And I personally don't agree with it because innovations in food industry for example exploit human health and only after some study shows over a period of time that some synthetic food additive is bad for example. Same goes for research drugs. My concern is that somebody takes it and fucks it up on behalf of freedom. But it's not that simple and I don't disagree completely.

4 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

What danger? Do you suffer from paranoia?

Health-related risks, first of all. I don't need to disclose to anybody what I am suffering from, that is my business, otherwise I would post a thread.

But I would say, if you are one man household, you getting fucked from a irresponsible drug use for the rest of your life means you can't do what you want to do, so health is important for me in that sense. Does that sound like a paranoia to you?

5 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

Technically, if I wanted I could make industrial quantities of LSD within a few weeks, it's not that complicated and all the basic products are legal.

Then I technically congratulate you and remind you that you shouldn't if it's illegal in your area.

5 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

It is not because a molecule is not widely used and/or new that its pharmacology is not known/studied.

I disagree, it is still relatively unknown compared to a generic or a widely used psychotropic or any drug that had practical clinical studies performed.

5 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

You can't know, because obviously reading dozens of pages of a patent is more complicated than lecturing on a forum on a subject that you don't even understand a little.

My point was that you can't know, I was just emphasizing it cause you are wistleblowing that they are not dangerous at all. But why are you projecting now?

5 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

All I did was ask if anyone is or knows a chemist capable of synthesizing a random molecule for me because most labs do not want to quote for products that are not in their catalog.

My approach of explaining the negatives won't help you overthink, so I failed. I wasted like an hour and a half of my life, my bad.

My original point is only this, and not to you, but to the chemists out there. If you are in a career in a chemistry, analytics, food industry and synthesis fields etc. and are employed in a company, know when you are sharing details on these subjects in such gray areas even on the net, know that you maybe already in a watch list in your country for drugs and explosives, even if you just have chemistry based degree, better not to, because one thing leads to another and there can be problems with association with those people and evidence that you have been giving specific advice to these people. Why to have such problems if you are trying to build your life. But you have a different life experience that will guide you I guess. I wasted my hour and a half, I am off to do some yoga and do what I acctually care about, my bad again, sorry. Should not have engaged in this absolutely pointless and untenable discussion.

[Schizophonia]

33 minutes ago, Applegarden8 said:

The thousand page document I am referring to is drug master file.

I was just talking about the synthesis protocol.

There are no "thousands of pages" documents, I don't know where you get that from other than your imagination even adding the administrative, which is off topic in this context.

33 minutes ago, Applegarden8 said:

Yeah, patent without any quality assurance or predictable effect.

For the 1000th time this comment is false.

33 minutes ago, Applegarden8 said:

Let's agree to disagree. It will be a problem if it will happen.

No, I have no problem confronting the legal system in my country, especially if I am within my rights.

33 minutes ago, Applegarden8 said:

I see your mindsets are different, and there is no point in interacting. 

Yes

33 minutes ago, Applegarden8 said:

And I personally don't agree with it because innovations in food industry for example exploit human health and only after some study shows over a period of time that some synthetic food additive is bad for example. Same goes for research drugs. My concern is that somebody takes it and fucks it up on behalf of freedom. But it's not that simple and I don't disagree completely.

Yes, it's always the same story, can we give more freedom even if idiots will abuse it?
I think so, and even if it wasn't because the legislation never dissuaded me from anything.
Btw, almost everyone here uses psychedelics which are nevertheless illegal, all that is prohibited is to talk about sources so that Actualized.org can dissociate itself from incitement to the consumption of illicit products.

33 minutes ago, Applegarden8 said:

Health-related risks, first of all. I don't need to disclose to anybody what I am suffering from, that is my business, otherwise I would post a thread.

What risk? in particular substances already tested in vivo and whose effects can be largely estimated before any experimentation.

The most dangerous products (by far) are already legal under prescription and/or over the counter (barbiturates, benzodiazepines, alcohol, opioids, antipsychotics, etc.)

33 minutes ago, Applegarden8 said:

But I would say, if you are one man household, you getting fucked from a irresponsible drug use for the rest of your life means you can't do what you want to do, so health is important for me in that sense. Does that sound like a paranoia to you?

Lol, it doesn't work like that.

33 minutes ago, Applegarden8 said:

Then I technically congratulate you and remind you that you shouldn't if it's illegal in your area.

Whether something is legal or not has no relation to the interest we have in producing it.

33 minutes ago, Applegarden8 said:

I disagree, it is still relatively unknown compared to a generic or a widely used psychotropic or any drug that had practical clinical studies performed.

Because the pharmacological interest is less important.
Beta carolina derivatives, although still marginal, are much safer than psychedelics.

 

33 minutes ago, Applegarden8 said:

My approach of explaining the negatives won't help you overthink, so I failed. I wasted like an hour and a half of my life, my bad.

My original point is only this, and not to you, but to the chemists out there. If you are in a career in a chemistry, analytics, food industry and synthesis fields etc. and are employed in a company, know when you are sharing details on these subjects in such gray areas even on the net, know that you maybe already in a watch list in your country for drugs and explosives, even if you just have chemistry based degree, better not to, because one thing leads to another and there can be problems with association with those people and evidence that you have been giving specific advice to these people.

This is as credible as explaining that a naturopath could go to prison if his valerian was used to make TNT.

33 minutes ago, Applegarden8 said:

Why to have such problems if you are trying to build your life. But you have a different life experience that will guide you I guess. I wasted my hour and a half, I am off to do some yoga and do what I acctually care about, my bad again, sorry. Should not have engaged in this absolutely pointless and untenable discussion.

Like you want.

[Applegarden8]

28 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

What risk? in particular substances already tested in vivo and whose effects can be largely estimated before any experimentation.

The most dangerous products (by far) are already legal under prescription and/or over the counter (barbiturates, benzodiazepines, alcohol, opioids, antipsychotics, etc.)

looks like you will find out, I but wish you are lucky enough that you have nothing to report.

29 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

There are no "thousands of pages" documents, I don't know where you get that from other than your imagination even adding the administrative, which is off topic in this context.

I was not just talking about synthesis protocol, but actually somebody's report which are generally longer than protocols which is included in that file. I am happy for you that you can conclude that, but when I saw it that's the first thing i noticed! It is very tempting to keep endlessly arguing about nothing, but as they say, somebody will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. I feel the burn, i guess. 

Generally speaking, yes, I admit I do not know a lot about many details of the topics, but I cannot say that I do not know what I am talking about. I don't think you will admit that as well and just assume that you are correct about everything you said. But you do you. So, keep swimming and enjoy your totally safe and simple endevour.