Debunking solipsism... for the 476th time 💀

[AerisVahnEphelia]

Don't be too onanistic, take break sometimes, a deep breath and a walk, fresh air, long debate with yourself will still be there after it.

[Princess Arabia]

12 minutes ago, AerisVahnEphelia said:

Don't be too onanistic, take break sometimes, a deep breath and a walk, fresh air, long debate with yourself will still be there after it.

Lol. IT hasn't reached the 476th time yet.

Edited October 25, 2023 by Princess Arabia

[Javfly33]

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Oneness is a perception of the self. That is to say, if you have mystical states, then the self comes and perceives them as if those mystical states happen to him, which is the only one there is, but that is because the self is still there, as the center of the experience. infinity is not one because it has no center

I think I get what you are saying. "nothing" can probably be at the final stage. Oneness indeed might be a consequence of a self still existing.

 

[Javfly33]

In my experience, Oneness = Love.

Feels incredibly good and brutally blissful, but there seems to be an even higher place:

Absolute Nothing, "no center", as @Breakingthewall says 

If Love/Oneness feels like Blissful unity, Nothingness feels like an explosion of empty Ecstasy. 

I've only touched seconds of that state of consciousness in my lifetime but they are worth decades of suffering of how it feels.

And please of course let's not confuse the nothing I talk about with the advaita nothingness.

The nothingness I talk about is something beyond freedom. Is an explosion of Ecstasy due to the fact of no center or self at all exists. Is pure flow of Nothing, completely empty, in all directions. Reality at this point is not "Real" or Alive. Is just Ectsay in all directions.

Pd: Probably this is how it feels to be "dead".

(You become Energy free from a body, and lose the imaginary self-consciousness center that existed when you had a body)

Edited October 25, 2023 by Javfly33

[byte]

On 23/10/2023 at 5:47 PM, Bazooka Jesus said:

Look, it's very simple: Reality is appearance. Whatever appears here and now is that which exists. And that's the whole story! Slapping the label 'me' onto the whole of existence/appearance is an unnecessary and nonsensical extra step, and it is based on a very clear and obvious fallacy... the fallacy of taking a random relative concept (me) and conflating it with the absolute. Instead of calling it 'me', you might as well call it 'cheeseburger', 'Santa Claus' or 'The Flying Spaghetti Monster'.

Now, do others exist? Sure... as a concept, they exist. Does their perspective exist? Sure... as a concept, it exists. These concepts are undeniable appearances in the here and now and thus they are real; if they weren't, we could not talk about them right now, you see? But don't conflate random relative concepts with the entirety of reality in which these concepts appear... it is the mother of all spiritual traps, and it can lead to all kinds of dangerous delusions.

So instead of "I am all that exists" it is "This (appereance now) is all that exists."

How do you answer to the objection that a large part what appears seems to point to being determined by the avatar? That the sense perceptions that appear seem to be relative to the physicality of that body. That the memories that appear seem to be relative to that person. That the patterns of thought that appear seem to be the patterns of thought of that person?

Edited October 25, 2023 by byte

[Razard86]

One is not a limit, One is totality. If you are everything...then that totality can only be one. But how it gets around that limit...is it can be an infinite One. So yeah its One but it is One that can appear to be many. But it is just an appearance of many...that are One.

Until you realize that why it has to be One then you will never know what Love is. Many of your minds are so convoluted and lost in confusion that you just keep confusing yourself even more @Breakingthewall is an example.

But I'm not surprised he doesn't think its one, he doubts love and calls it a concept. If it wasn't one there couldn't be union, connection, balance. If it wasn't ONE you literally couldn't have a reality. The same is true of infinity. If it wasn't infinite you couldn't have life, because life must contain all possibilities for it to be truly REAL. So truth must be One, Truth must be infinite, and it must be One.

Until you understand what Truth and Love is....then you won't understand. Only a life that has been lived based on truth and love can understand what is being presented here. It's fine....you don't have to understand either...that is also a form of truth and love as well.

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Razard86 said:

Until you realize that why it has to be One then you will never know what Love is. Many of your minds are so convoluted and lost in confusion that you just keep confusing yourself even more @Breakingthewall is an example.

But I'm not surprised he doesn't think its one, he doubts love and calls it a concept. If it wasn't one there couldn't be union, connection, balance. If it wasn't ONE you literally couldn't have a reality. The same is true of infinity. If it wasn't infinite you couldn't have life, because life must contain all possibilities for it to be truly REAL. So truth must be One, Truth must be infinite, and it must be One.

7 hours ago, Vibes said:

 

I don't know, for me the thing is to get totally empty of this kind of ideas. For example, to think: reality is love, it does not make any sense. If I am in an awake state, it is an awake state, then in a sleeping state, it is a sleeping state.

to say: reality is this and this, it does not make sense because it is in a sleep state when you say that. so it's better not to think about it too much and try to open myself to awake states. Awakened states are not thinkable, you cannot grasp them from the sleeping state for the simple reason that you are in the sleeping state. and if you were in the awake state you would not be able to define anything because by doing so you would return to the sleeping state.

When you talk about what reality is, it is clearly perceived that you are influenced by things you have heard or read, and you process them and translate them in your mind into images, they become reality by association with other ideas and create a real world. Awakening is just the opposite, it is getting out of there.

Edited October 25, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

Sorry kids, looks like I am late to my own party. Did I miss something?

 

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

On 23.10.2023 at 7:12 PM, Someone here said:

@Bazooka Jesus is there a distance between me and you ?

 

On 23.10.2023 at 7:30 PM, Princess Arabia said:

Answer these questions.

1. Is Consciousness all there is. Y/N

2. Are you Consciousness. Y/N

 

What do you think would be my answer, based on the OP?

[Water by the River]

14 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Many of your minds are so convoluted and lost in confusion that you just keep confusing yourself even more

And it is One without a second, and not One.

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

 

What do you think would be my answer, based on the OP?

Y/N

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

Sorry kids, looks like I am late to my own party. Did I miss something?

 

Just curious, how did you come up with the "476" figure. Was it just random or is it related to something.

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

12 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Y/N

Come on. Give it a shot! Where's the fun if I give you all the answers? 

10 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Just curious, how did you come up with the "476" figure. Was it just random or is it related to something.

Divine inspiration, of course. 

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

Come on. Give it a shot! Where's the fun if I give you all the answers?

I even read the original post again and couldn't tell what your answers would be. This evasiveness is evasive...huh? Is that too evasive. I mean c'mon just answer the goddamn question.

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

26 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

I mean c'mon just answer the goddamn question.

Meh... alright. Just relax and don't forget to breathe, lol.

On 23.10.2023 at 7:30 PM, Princess Arabia said:

1. Is Consciousness all there is. Y/N

2. Are you Consciousness. Y/N

1. 'Consciousness' is... drumroll please... a concept. The All There Is is not a concept (unless you start thinking or talking about it, as we are doing here), and it has no name, quality or number.

2. 'You' is also a concept. The concept of 'you' ≠ the concept of 'consciousness'.

Satisfied?

[Princess Arabia]

2 hours ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

Meh... alright. Just relax and don't forget to breathe, lol.

1. 'Consciousness' is... drumroll please... a concept. The All There Is is not a concept (unless you start thinking or talking about it, as we are doing here), and it has no name, quality or number.

2. 'You' is also a concept. The concept of 'you' ≠ the concept of 'consciousness'.

Satisfied?

Ok so: Consciousness is a concept, I am a concept. Both are concepts. The concept of consciousness is different from the concept of me.

The "All There Is" is not a concept unless it's being talked about or thought about, then it becomes a concept. So, Consciousness, you and me can also be "not concepts" as long as it's not being talked about or thought of. So, the All There Is is both a concept and not a concept depending on how it's been looked at or viewed or not at all. Concepts can only be defined, and since The All There Is is indefinable it is not a concept but becomes a concept if it's being defined. 

How can something that is not a concept becomes a concept if.....and why can't a concept become a non-concept if it doesn't get defined. Do you see what I'm getting at here. A noun doesn't just automatically become a verb just because it's being defined as a noun. Certain words can be verbs and nouns at the same time e.g. "May" can be someone's name and it can also be a modal verb. But defining it as someone's name and using it in a sentence like " Come here, May, let's dance", and "May I have this dance", differentiates the two meanings automatically. 

A concept, by definition, is something conceived in the mind. Didn't you conceive in the mind that "The All There Is" is not a concept. So that has to also be a concept. Not saying everything is a concept, but nothing that can be conceived in the mind can be a "non-concept. Also not saying that the "All There Is" is not a concept; but by your definition, Consciousness nor me or you becomes automatically a concept just because the mind can conceive it. The difference to me is how you define Consciousness, you and me that differentiates if the true meanings are being defined correctly in order to determine if they are actually concepts or not.

Hope you understand what i'm pointing to; and even I had to think this through thoroughly before posting, as I started to also confuse myself while knowing what it is I'm really trying to convey. 

Bottomline: How do you know that Consciousness, you and I are concepts if the All That Is can also be a concept if being talked about when it is not really a concept. The courtroom rests. Lol

Edited October 26, 2023 by Princess Arabia

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

@Princess Arabia

I had to laugh out loud while reading this... these conceptual crazy trains of thoughts about thoughts are an absolute marvel of absurdity, lol! And of course, I am not talking about this train of thought specifically, but about conceptual thinking in general. It's ability to complicate the most simple thing in existence is truly an amazing sight to behold...

Sure, if you don't turn a thing into a concept, it becomes (or rather stays) everything. But then it's no longer a thing! It's not 'consciousness', it's not 'you', it's not 'me'... it just IS. Isness itself, so to speak. Which is impersonal, formless, without quality, can neither be observed or be observing. So pure Isness itself is not an experience, because there is nothing about it to experience, you see? You cannot even call it 'nothingness', because even nothingness is 'something' aka. a concept. And guess what... 'pure Isness itself' IS OF COURSE A CONCEPT TOO, which makes everything I just said null and void. Muuuahahaha...

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

A concept, by definition, is something conceived in the mind.

Well, take a guess what 'the mind' is. Hint: It starts with a C... and no, I am not talking about the four letter word.

Can a concept conceive another concept? Ponder that, if you got nothing better to do for the next thirty minutes.

[Princess Arabia]

32 minutes ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

@Princess Arabia

I had to laugh out loud while reading this... these conceptual crazy trains of thoughts about thoughts are an absolute marvel of absurdity, lol! And of course, I am not talking about this train of thought specifically, but about conceptual thinking in general. It's ability to complicate the most simple thing in existence is truly an amazing sight to behold...

Sure, if you don't turn a thing into a concept, it becomes (or rather stays) everything. But then it's no longer a thing! It's not 'consciousness', it's not 'you', it's not 'me'... it just IS. Isness itself, so to speak. Which is impersonal, formless, without quality, can neither be observed or be observing. So pure Isness itself is not an experience, because there is nothing about it to experience, you see? You cannot even call it 'nothingness', because even nothingness is 'something' aka. a concept. And guess what... 'pure Isness itself' IS OF COURSE A CONCEPT TOO, which makes everything I just said null and void. Muuuahahaha...

Well, take a guess what 'the mind' is. Hint: It starts with a C... and no, I am not talking about the four letter word.

Can a concept conceive another concept? Ponder that, if you got nothing better to do for the next thirty minutes.

That's what the mind does, complicate things. It learnt that from Math Class..lol..All this and I'm still not sure what you think you are...oh, I forgot, you're a concept, a concept in the mind of All that is. So that means all there is is "All that Is" not as a concept but it is Actually All There Is. Hence it is One, hence it is Alone Hence Solipsism. Yay got it..just kidding. Forget it, doesn't matter because all there is is all there is even concepts.

[Razard86]

If you close your eyes....you will notice that you are all that is. In one sense it is vision that blinds you into creating distinctions. If you close your eyes and drop all labels...everything is just ONE big experience. An experience that is happening and is aware it is happening. How is this possible? Because it is awareness itself. You said how is this possible? Because awareness is aware and to be aware...is to feel itself. 

So you don't hear sound...you are sound aware of itself. All appearances are aware of itself as what it is. Awareness imagines itself as water and then is aware of what water is as water. Awareness imagines fire and is aware of itself as fire. This is all that happens for all eternity. And its all ONE because there is only awareness imagining itself as something. 

So with this understanding...how is there an OTHER? There isn't, there never was and never will be. You wiggle to the left and wiggle to the right but you cannot escape all that is, because you are all that is no matter how many appearances you take form as. That is why you are ONE, ONE appearing as infinite temporary forms, and that is why you are ALL ALONE as the infinite shape shifting appearing and disappearing form/formless awareness. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Razard86

[Princess Arabia]

35 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

If you close your eyes....you will notice that you are all that is. In one sense it is vision that blinds you into creating distinctions. If you close your eyes and drop all labels...everything is just ONE big experience. An experience that is happening and is aware it is happening. How is this possible? Because it is awareness itself. You said how is this possible? Because awareness is aware and to be aware...is to feel itself. 

So you don't hear sound...you are sound aware of itself. All appearances are aware of itself as what it is. Awareness imagines itself as water and then is aware of what water is as water. Awareness imagines fire and is aware of itself as fire. This is all that happens for all eternity. And its all ONE because there is only awareness imagining itself as something. 

So with this understanding...how is there an OTHER? There isn't, there never was and never will be. You wiggle to the left and wiggle to the right but you cannot escape all that is, because you are all that is no matter how many appearances you take form as. That is why you are ONE, ONE appearing as infinite temporary forms, and that is why you are ALL ALONE as the infinite shape shifting appearing and disappearing form/formless awareness. 

This is so simple to get and it's the only thing that makes sense and not just this, but everything else I've learnt is pointing to this.