Debunking solipsism... for the 476th time 💀

[Razard86]

Experience is alone because it is all that is. The number 1 does not need a comparison or other to be one, and neither does alone. The number 1 is alone. Because it is the lone number. Look up the definition of the word lone.

Lone: Single, Solitary, Isolated. 

So alone= Single, solitary, isolated.

You all keep trying to find word games to avoid that you are a single, solitary, isolated, dreamer that has nothing else to reflect on....but itself. You can only compare yourself to yourself because you are all alone. 

 

[Osaid]

There's nothing absolute about being alone. If every creature on earth was wiped off the earth tomorrow except yourself, you would achieve "being alone" through relative means. It's relative. You're just personifying reality. "Alone" is relative to "other", it's a concept.

If triangles had a God, they would give it 3 sides. If humans had a God, they would make it alone.

If you concede that you can't think of other people, then you can't realize that they don't exist either. That is just more thinking. Thinking of other people is imaginary, and realizing that they don't exist is also imaginary. Both are imaginary. They are relative to eachother. When you say "other people don't exist because they are imaginary", that realization happens inside of imagination. If you never think of other people, you can't realize that they don't exist. You can't experience what doesn't exist. You can't imagine a person, and you can't "realize" a person away either. Thus, you can't become alone through a realization, that is always just a conceptual shift in identity. The idea of being alone is based on the idea of non-existence, in the case of solipsism, the non-existence is expressed as "other people don't exist."

Edited October 25, 2023 by Osaid

[Razard86]

53 minutes ago, Osaid said:

There's nothing absolute about being alone. If every creature on earth was wiped off the earth tomorrow except yourself, you would achieve "being alone" through relative means. It's relative. You're just personifying reality. "Alone" is relative to "other", it's a concept.

If triangles had a God, they would give it 3 sides. If humans had a God, they would make it alone.

If you concede that you can't think of other people, then you can't realize that they don't exist either. That is just more thinking. Thinking of other people is imaginary, and realizing that they don't exist is also imaginary. Both are imaginary. They are relative to eachother. When you say "other people don't exist because they are imaginary", that realization happens inside of imagination. If you never think of other people, you can't realize that they don't exist. You can't experience what doesn't exist. You can't imagine a person, and you can't "realize" a person away either. Thus, you can't become alone through a realization, that is always just a conceptual shift in identity. The idea of being alone is based on the idea of non-existence, in the case of solipsism, the non-existence is expressed as "other people don't exist."

Absolute means total, total means alone. Why does it mean alone? Because it is all there is. If I told you your point of view was all there is...then your point of view is ALONE. It means there are no other point of views outside of your point of view. Thus it is alone. It would need another point of view to NOT be alone and this is not the case.

This means if I REMOVE your point of view...there is NO point of view. So thus your point of view is TOTAL and is ALONE. The only way for you to NOT be alone is to TELL YOURSELF you are not alone which is what you do when you go to sleep.

When you go to sleep your point of view in your dream is the ONLY POINT OF VIEW. When you trip on psychedelics your point of view is the ONLY POINT OF VIEW. If you are not there to observe something it never happened. Being told what happens is in your point of view and being shown a video of what happened is in your point of view.

You have never and WILL NEVER experienced anything away from you. But you CAN TELL YOURSELF YOU HAVE and take that on as a belief. But you can NEVER PROVE IT. Because YOU ARE ALONE. You are always alone and will always be alone. You just don't like it.

You create other, without other you are alone. Other is just YOU so since there is no other you are ALONE. You can fight this all you want but it never changes and will never change. If someone shoots you in the head, you will take EVERYBODY WITH YOU, the same way you do when you wake up from a dream.

You fight this because you don't want to awaken. But one day you will awaken and you will lose other and be floating in a void. I have a friend, a girl I know who had a seizure and momentarily died and entered the void and she was totality and was the only thing there.

I have also experienced the void and it was the same thing. You like to a void the void....which is what you are experiencing right now. That void has no other....and right now neither do you.

Edited October 25, 2023 by Razard86

[Osaid]

2 hours ago, Razard86 said:

When you go to sleep your point of view in your dream is the ONLY POINT OF VIEW. When you trip on psychedelics your point of view is the ONLY POINT OF VIEW. If you are not there to observe something it never happened. Being told what happens is in your point of view and being shown a video of what happened is in your point of view.

You have never and WILL NEVER experienced anything away from you. But you CAN TELL YOURSELF YOU HAVE and take that on as a belief. But you can NEVER PROVE IT. Because YOU ARE ALONE. You are always alone and will always be alone. You just don't like it.

You create other, without other you are alone. Other is just YOU so since there is no other you are ALONE. You can fight this all you want but it never changes and will never change. If someone shoots you in the head, you will take EVERYBODY WITH YOU, the same way you do when you wake up from a dream.

You fight this because you don't want to awaken. But one day you will awaken and you will lose other and be floating in a void. I have a friend, a girl I know who had a seizure and momentarily died and entered the void and she was totality and was the only thing there.

I have also experienced the void and it was the same thing. You like to a void the void....which is what you are experiencing right now. That void has no other....and right now neither do you.

If you don't imagine another person, you can't realize that they don't exist. Your entire realization is based in imagination as well, which is what I am trying to point out.

Being alone doesn't mean that other people don't exist, that is an inference which comes from memory and identity, but it can't be experienced. If you say that other people don't exist when you are alone, that is the same as saying that non-existence exists. Every single time you say "this doesn't exist", that is not a perceivable thing, that is always 100% a relative dualistic concept. The only way you can ever reference non-existence is through duality.

What I'm saying is super simple: You can't lose something by thinking about it, that is just you changing beliefs about yourself. If I am in a void, I would think yes, I'm alone. If a human appears in the void, I can view that human and think "Oh look, a human is here as well." I can theorize about whether the human has an experience or not, but that is not what the experience of the human is. I can look at a tree in front of me, but me theorizing about whether the tree has an experience or not has nothing to do with the experience of that tree.

For most people, their identity is meshed with "other people", so I can see how having an experience where you are just floating in a void somewhere could create a solipsistic conclusion, but that is just an inference based in your identity.

It's not that they have their own experience, and it's not that they don't have their own experience. It's just you thinking about what their experience is. The desire to prove their experience is an error in your own perception of thoughts, you can't prove a thought that you are having to yourself. It is the same as imagining a unicorn, and then thinking "I wonder if that unicorn has its own experience?" You can't verify that question you have formulated because there is nothing to verify, you made it up through thought.

If you speculate that they have their experience, then that is a speculative position you can hold even when no one is around you. If you speculate that they don't have an experience, then that is a speculative position you can hold even when no one is around you. In both cases, it is just you thinking about experiences, it is not relevant to the experience of another person. In the same way that you can speculate about whether a tree has its own experience, but that speculation is irrelevant to the experience of being with an actual tree.

You are mistaking your perception of thought forms for something absolute and existential. It is not more correct to not think about someone having an experience, and it is not more correct to think about someone not having experience. They are both just thoughts. You can't perceive someone not having their experience, you can only perceive the belief that they don't have their own experience. When you look at the color red, you don't say "I am experiencing not blue", you say "that's red." The former is a mental inference you are creating. In the same way, when you look at someone and say "that person is not having their own experience", that is a mental inference you are creating. 

Edited October 25, 2023 by Osaid

[Kuba Powiertowski]

Simply enjoy the freedom of not having any particular worldview, opinion or being right😉. It is a very relaxed state of being. Try and you may actually fall in love with this "relaxed you"🫠.

[r0ckyreed]

On 10/23/2023 at 10:47 AM, Bazooka Jesus said:

Well, let's hope that this is going to be the final round.

An esteemed member of this forum PM'd me today in order to inquire about my take on Solipsism, and I was so mightily pleased with my response that I thought it might be a good idea to share it with all you other buggers out there. You're welcome!

---

Look, it's very simple: Reality is appearance. Whatever appears here and now is that which exists. And that's the whole story! Slapping the label 'me' onto the whole of existence/appearance is an unnecessary and nonsensical extra step, and it is based on a very clear and obvious fallacy... the fallacy of taking a random relative concept (me) and conflating it with the absolute. Instead of calling it 'me', you might as well call it 'cheeseburger', 'Santa Claus' or 'The Flying Spaghetti Monster'.

Now, do others exist? Sure... as a concept, they exist. Does their perspective exist? Sure... as a concept, it exists. These concepts are undeniable appearances in the here and now and thus they are real; if they weren't, we could not talk about them right now, you see? But don't conflate random relative concepts with the entirety of reality in which these concepts appear... it is the mother of all spiritual traps, and it can lead to all kinds of dangerous delusions.

Hope this helps!

This post seems more like an argument for solipsism than a debunk. Lol!

If you claim that appearance is all that exists, then you admit that solipsism is true. The whole view of solipsism is that the only thing that can be known or that exists is you, and you are consciousness. Anything that you are conscious of is you because you are consciousness itself. 

This Post just affirms solipsism. You haven’t proven that “other” isn’t anything more than a concept. Until you do that, you haven’t disproven anything.

[ZzzleepingBear]

Maybe most important of all. As a solipsist, you have to tell everybody around you that only your point of view exist.. ;-)

[Kuba Powiertowski]

8 minutes ago, ZzzleepingBear said:

Maybe most important of all. As a solipsist, you have to tell everybody around you that only your point of view exist.. ;-)

🤣🤣🤣

[vibv]

Solipsism as reality is true, but solipsism as a concept is false. It doesn't work how you think it works.

[ZzzleepingBear]

1 minute ago, vibv said:

Solipsism as reality is true, but solipsism as a concept is false. It doesn't work how you think it works.

Ok that explains it all. It works because it works.. But never how you think it works. 

[Razard86]

49 minutes ago, vibv said:

Solipsism as reality is true, but solipsism as a concept is false. It doesn't work how you think it works.

It works exactly like a dream. You guys need to stop playing ignorant. Close your eyes...imagine an apple...TA DAH that is the same way you create everything in existence. All you do as God is lower the potency of your imagination to what you call human imagination.

Why does Leo tell you to take a psychedelic? Because you can REMOVE THE LIMITER ON YOUR IMAGINATION. Psychedelics are not just some chemicals, they are the mechanism you put in your dream to REALLY WAKE YOU UP. So how it works...is it is amechanical. When you think of an apple, there is no process...it just spontaneously pops into existence in your mind when you think of it. This is the same way you create EVERYTHING. 

Now take your hand...move it from left to right.....your hand is appearing and disappearing right in front of your eyes. 

1 hour ago, ZzzleepingBear said:

Maybe most important of all. As a solipsist, you have to tell everybody around you that only your point of view exist.. ;-)

Yes right now what I am doing is no different than walking into a bathroom mirror and talking to my reflection. No different!!!

This is what I and all of humanity are doing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RviXU4teimw&ab_channel=SWNS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAmGX80jh8k&ab_channel=KING5Seattle

All you gotta do as God to fool yourself is put another you in front of you like a mirror, give them a different personality and appearance....and TA DAH!!!! You fool yourself. Once you understand this fully, you realize....evil doesn't exist and that all humans...are LOVE because YOU ARE LOVE!!!

Edited October 25, 2023 by Razard86

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, r0ckyreed said:

This post seems more like an argument for solipsism than a debunk. Lol!

If you claim that appearance is all that exists, then you admit that solipsism is true. The whole view of solipsism is that the only thing that can be known or that exists is you, and you are consciousness. Anything that you are conscious of is you because you are consciousness itself. 

This Post just affirms solipsism. You haven’t proven that “other” isn’t anything more than a concept. Until you do that, you haven’t disproven anything.

Now you get why I get so annoyed by my other selves...so dishonest, they don't care about truth over feeling good. They would rather feel good than know the truth of who they are....but I get it....know why? Because enlightenment is like me walking into a movie theater and totally dissolving the immersion of the movie.

Some people want to be immersed in the movie....so who am I to wake them up? Only reason why it annoys me is they come to a Spirituality Forum pretending this is what they want....LOL. Reminds me of people who get married thinking that is what they want...then they get depressed. People like the idea of awakening...most do not want to actually awaken. Why? Because they don't love themselves enough to release OTHER. 

You might ask...how do you release this attachment? Total satisfaction with the life you have lived, with all aspects of your character and your place in life. Once you get to that point you have achieved love with everything and you can finally let go of other. So when people struggle to release other it lets me know you are still not yet satisfied with your dream character and their life and you still have unfinished business.

[vibv]

2 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Now you get why I get so annoyed by my other selves...so dishonest, they don't care about truth over feeling good. They would rather feel good than know the truth of who they are....but I get it....know why? Because enlightenment is like me walking into a movie theater and totally dissolving the immersion of the movie.

I only want the truth because I'm a fool.

[vibv]

14 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

It works exactly like a dream. You guys need to stop playing ignorant. Close your eyes...imagine an apple...TA DAH that is the same way you create everything in existence. All you do as God is lower the potency of your imagination to what you call human imagination.

Sure, but there are sooooo many misconceptions that open up here. Like thinking that you can do what you want without consequences. Everything you do falls back to you.

[Razard86]

1 minute ago, vibv said:

I only want the truth because I'm a fool.

^^^LOL you are a wise fool because if you awaken you receive the greatest gift ever....yourself. You get free samadhis whenever you want, you get bliss for free. You can rev up the feeling of love or dial it down. You also understand people at the deepest level imaginable. No therapist, no psychiatrist could ever know or understand people better than you. Because you gain complete self-knowledge in that you know beyond a doubt that every person, every creature, everything is GOOD.

You discover what GOODNESS is and get to see it from different angles. You understand that all the things you call evil actually SERVE GOOD. Because GOOD is so GOOD it can only experience itself through duality....so that is why all things we hate serve all things we love. You are able to see it and it makes you laugh.

[Breakingthewall]

solipsism is false, reality is not one. If you open yourself completely and break all your limits, the total reality manifests itself obvious, unlimited and magical, but not one. How can be one what has no limit? one is a limit

[gettoefl]

11 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

solipsism is false, reality is not one. If you open yourself completely and break all your limits, the total reality manifests itself obvious, unlimited and magical, but not one. How can be one what has no limit? one is a limit

i say that solipsism is 90% of the spiritual work

get yourself alone and get convinced that you're the only who can help you

then you might wake up ... else you won't

so solipsism is step one in this journey and one most are unwilling to even entertain

after you wake up then you can start dealing with more than just subjectivity

Edited October 25, 2023 by gettoefl

[Osaid]

46 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

solipsism is false, reality is not one. If you open yourself completely and break all your limits, the total reality manifests itself obvious, unlimited and magical, but not one. How can be one what has no limit? one is a limit

I also prefer calling it "infinite" instead of "one", because "one" implies "two."

"Oneness" isn't too bad either, it has more flair to it than just "one."

The word "one" pops up since being "two" is always made through imagination. But the actual reality is neither one or two, although the logical conclusion becomes "if it can't be multiple, then it is just one thing", which is not wrong necessarily, but I find that calling it "one" is too logical for my taste as well. It's more like there are many things happening in one thing, like you would see in a movie or painting. Or there could be nothing at all, depends what state you're in.

Edited October 25, 2023 by Osaid

[Yimpa]

45 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

reality is not one

18 minutes ago, Vibes said:

wtf

It’s interesting how the word “one” is one less letter from the word “none”.

In any case, none of us here are Awake, and that is perfect because not any one of us can monopolize the Truth. It appears that there are multiple users on here sharing their experiences about what reality is, yet when you go deeper, you realize that it’s all ONE, with three capital letters.

[Breakingthewall]

6 minutes ago, Osaid said:

I also prefer calling it "infinite" instead of "one", because "one" implies "two."

The word "one" pops up since being "two" is always made through imagination. But the actual reality is neither one or two, although the logical conclusion becomes "if it can't be multiple, then it is just one thing", which is not wrong necessarily, but I find that calling it "one" is too logical for my taste as well. It's more like there are many things happening in one thing, like you would see in a movie or painting. Or there could be nothing at all, depends what state you're in.

15 minutes ago, Vibes said:

wtf

Oneness is a perception of the self. That is to say, if you have mystical states, then the self comes and perceives them as if those mystical states happen to him, which is the only one there is, but that is because the self is still there, as the center of the experience. infinity is not one because it has no center