How to master energies to be in non dual state all the time?

[Water by the River]

On 21.10.2023 at 0:34 PM, Javfly33 said:

Oh wait, maybe I'm still in that "state". Maybe that state is the Truth 😶🤯 regardless of thr internal thought process or mental fluctuations @Water by the River

With the energetic practices/meditation that you describe one can generate states that are awakened and boundless/nondual. But as soon as the energetic practice stops, the separate-self Gestalt/structure "kills" the nondual boundless blissful state when it comes back after practice. One can literally feel it contract back in the head.

Its like applying medicine to a disease. Relieves the symptoms, but not the source problem (separate-self contraction. Literally contraction, creating contraction/location/center in the head and body).

There are practices that dissolve the separate-self-contraction directly (the root-cause, or the source problem, and not just its symptoms, no nonduality and lacking bliss), in a way that the whole flow of I-thoughts/I-feelings is cut off in real time fast enough (Trekchö in Dzogchen for example, certain Mahamudra practices),

That (dissolving all me-thoughts/concepts and -feelings)  fast enough in real time (needs a lot of training) then leads to dissolving the sensation of being centered in the body (the contractions and localizations), and also leads to "hard" nondual/infinite Awakened states (then also off the pillow in daily life), including the "solidity" of the "outher" world being replaced by mere lucid appearance hovering in infinite Nothingness/Reality/Ones True Self as expressions of it, "seeing itself".

Without these two shifts towards truly nondual awakened states (loss of center and mere appearance instead of solid external world), most of the talk/writing about it is just wishful thinking and conceptual speculation. It is not just thinking differently, these are "hard" awakened states. Only in these awakened states can the real state of Reality be realized, and the separate self slowly dissolved. 

Without these hard awakened nondual states, there is only illusion/duality/separate-self, and no chance to really realize what the underlying nondual Reality beyond the illusion/ignorance really is. I have the impression that is an important point for you, since you are among the rather few that actually practice and not just engage in conceptual speculation, but in generating these awakened states. And I agree fully on that.

I have written extensively about these practices of Dzogchen/Mahamudra. If that is done proficient & fast enough, the mechanism of creating a separate-self and a localization & center stops, and one has these awakened boundless/nondual/infinite states of Infinite Nondual Consciousness in daily life when getting up from the pillow. I can confirm this from my own practice. It is too good to be true. Yet, it is true, and at that stage of practice always available. 

From that basis and in these states, one can dissolve the last remnants of the separate self contractions/localizations/lenses of perception in the burning of ones own infinite and impersonal True Being. The contractions that were the separate-self/ego melt like ice in the sun.

I can only invite to try these techniques. In my experience, they are way superior to any standard concentration/energetic sitting meditation/practice. Exactly because it attacks the root-cause, and opens up Awakened Nonduality States in daily life. Mahamudra uses extensively concentrative sitting-meditation and energetic practices (Tummo for example) in the beginning, but goes beyond it as soon as possible. Off the pillow.

Water by the River

 

Here a description of the practice system I mainly used:

https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/92467-god-fucking-damn-it-another-meditation-rant-thread/?do=findComment&comment=1309816

Edited October 23, 2023 by Water by the River

[Javfly33]

@Water by the River thanks friend I´ll read it

[Salvijus]

Sadhguru has talked about it a number of times. Has something to do with cultivating and refining your energies to a higher level. 

[Osaid]

5 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Sadhguru has talked about it a number of times. Has something to do with cultivating and refining your energies to a higher level. 

Sadghuru's stance is interesting. From what I can tell, he doesn't find self-inquiry to be practical, which is what someone like J.K. promotes. He thinks that most people don't have an intellect sharp enough for that, so he would rather induce energetic states and practices to get people there, like yoga and what not. He sees it as more efficient. Aside from that, he seems to be much more absorbed in that sort of energetic and supernatural background, as he even talks about diet and spirits and such things.

[Salvijus]

1 minute ago, Osaid said:

Sadghuru's stance is interesting. From what I can tell, he doesn't find self-inquiry to be practical, which is what someone like J.K. promotes. He thinks that most people don't have an intellect sharp enough for that, so he would rather induce energetic states and practices to get people there, like yoga and what not. He sees it as more efficient. Aside from that, he seems to be much more absorbed in that sort of energetic and supernatural background, as he even talks about diet and spirits and such things.

I've tried both. The method of refining and cultivating subtle energies is definately legit. Intersting thing i found is that if self-inquiry is done properly. It leads to the same energetic transformation that you got get from energy work. So it's the same thing tackled from two different ends. I like both methods.

[Breakingthewall]

On 23/10/2023 at 9:39 AM, Water by the River said:

e. 

On 23/10/2023 at 9:39 AM, Water by the River said:

Without these hard awakened nondual states, there is only illusion/duality/separate-self, and no chance to really realize what the underlying nondual Reality beyond the illusion/ignorance really is. I have the impression that is an important point for you, since you are among the rather few that actually practice and not just engage in conceptual speculation, but in generating these awakened states. And I agree fully on that.

T

 

On 23/10/2023 at 9:39 AM, Water by the River said:

have written extensively about these practices of Dzogchen/Mahamudra. If that is done proficient & fast enough, the mechanism of creating a separate-self and a localization & center stops, and one has these awakened boundless/nondual/infinite states of Infinite Nondual Consciousness in daily life when getting up from the pillow. I can confirm this from my own practice. It is too good to be true. Yet, it is true, and at that stage of practice always available. 

What brings me back to contracted states, as you say, is the need to think about reality, the need to think about the material future constantly and to talk with people. To reach awakened states I need a lot of meditation time and sometimes some weed or LSD low dose. the entire afternoon in a park for example, with some stops to look at this forum. In the end sometimes I achieve states of total amplitude, something incredible, maximum. nothing is comparable, that's why I look for them. Also with 5meo dmt, but short and deep, not for stable openess, openess is with meditation.  but then I return to my normal life and it is inevitable to return to a normal state, with my mind in constant movement. Living in a non-dual way seems impossible to me, bringing that to normal life.... how do you relate to people? The moment I interact with someone i fall into a mental state, talking, spinning thoughts. In the moment that i work or start to think about work, the same. Now thinking all time about society, the war,the human condition, how the humans are. That absorb the mind, it's like: ok, open states are wonderful, but first I have to understand what is a human

Edited October 24, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[SeaMonster]

17 hours ago, Osaid said:

Sadghuru's stance is interesting. From what I can tell, he doesn't find self-inquiry to be practical, which is what someone like J.K. promotes. He thinks that most people don't have an intellect sharp enough for that, so he would rather induce energetic states and practices to get people there, like yoga and what not. He sees it as more efficient. Aside from that, he seems to be much more absorbed in that sort of energetic and supernatural background, as he even talks about diet and spirits and such things.

If that's his take on self-enquiry, frankly he doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.

That technique is not about engaging the intellect, it's about bypassing the intellect.  It's in that general Zen koan category of practice.

And if you want to talk about inducing energetic states, repeated shaktipat is king, and makes everything else superfluous (including Sadhguru himself.)

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by SeaMonster

[Salvijus]

😯

[Osaid]

1 hour ago, SeaMonster said:

That technique is not about engaging the intellect, it's about bypassing the intellect.

Bypassing the intellect through intellect. It's seeing the limits of intellect by questioning it until it evaporates.

But I also don't agree with him that most people aren't sharp enough to do it, and I think self-inquiry is perfectly valid. It's just not encouraged or even seen as a valid possibility by most people.

[strika]

On 21. 10. 2023. at 0:30 PM, Javfly33 said:

How to accomplish this? Almost everyfucking day I get the extremely sweet taste of that non dual wave of love, or merging and losing sense of the boundary of the body with the surroundings.

But once I get up of the meditation this state rapidly fades and I'm back to "Maya".

Is clearly a mastery of energies. When I sit in a certain way and do certain positions with my hands, eyes, etc ...the body becomes vibrant, and bam, pure flowing, pure Non dual Wave...I'm out of the macabre game of the mind, in the cloud of Love, in heaven, safe, completely gone.

Is so frustrating to experience this a couple of minutes a day and then not being able to be there the rest of the day, can society come up for a strategy for this and stop making more fucking iPhones and Teslas as that is a meter for human development? 🤦😂

Brahmacharya, but it will take some time, a streak of years probably

[Javfly33]

22 hours ago, Salvijus said:

Sadhguru has talked about it a number of times. Has something to do with cultivating and refining your energies to a higher level. 

I'm following the techniques sadhguru and they definitely work as a charm. Is just that I don't see they last through the whole day. He advertises as "being blissful/joyful is not difficult" but I find is difficult, unless you are doing them for a job lol. 

(!But I might not be a good example since I'm quite entangled with crap like sex and women lately.)

(But again I wouldn't be entangled with it if the practices would produce those states continually...)

2 hours ago, strika said:

Brahmacharya, but it will take some time, a streak of years probably

Yeah probably the only way is to get to a point in life where you don't give a shit about physical stuff and you can be meditating as a priority the rest of your life.

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

On 23.10.2023 at 9:39 AM, Water by the River said:

Here a description of the practice system I mainly used:

https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/92467-god-fucking-damn-it-another-meditation-rant-thread/?do=findComment&comment=1309816

Great summary. - Yeah, it's pretty amazing when you get to the point where the mental chatterbox starts to sound more and more like the voice of Charlie Brown's teacher.

https://youtu.be/ss2hULhXf04?si=7GH7ezxzgUcmXfym

[strika]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

Yeah probably the only way is to get to a point in life where you don't give a shit about physical stuff and you can be meditating as a priority the rest of your life.

Exactly

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

Yeah probably the only way is to get to a point in life where you don't give a shit about physical stuff and you can be meditating as a priority the rest of your life

On 23/10/2023 at 9:39 AM, Water by the River said:

 

On 23/10/2023 at 9:39 AM, Water by the River said:

 

 

On 23/10/2023 at 9:39 AM, Water by the River said:

 

Exactly, I believe that this is the path and the only way for open states to be the most important thing in your life is to achieve those states, then there is a feeling that these states are reality, and normal reality, a shadow . It is still pleasant to earn money, sex, friendship, love, are necessary as a human, but reality is openness, that is being awake, the normal states, asleep. but not asleep in the sense of not knowing that you are god or anything, but veiled by a curtain of mental flow. In awake states the curtain disappears, reality comes to life, depth. is magic. then, open yourself to life and magic that reality is the main thing. You will not find that life in anything, not in human love, not in your work, not in any passion. All that is beautiful, but it is on another level. at the level of the human psyche, since the mental flow is not just articulated thought, it is all the layers of the psyche, something evolutionary, what makes you human and makes you a door that prevents the vision of what you are. 

Having these states shows you all the attachment you have, and makes it easier for you to let go because you realize that it doesn't matter what happens to you. In the same moment that you are in the psyche again, matter a lot. But the realization remains

Edited October 25, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Davino]

Kundalini, kundalini, kundalini... 

Vipassana, kriya yoga, chi, tantric sex, martial arts...

It's just solidities, contractions of the same oneness. Dissolve them and you will live in oneness, no more I, no more center. How bias it is to have a center!

Kundalini, kundalini, kundalini. Wake it up! Again and Again, layer after layer, may consciousness permeate all your reality.

Kundalini is the gatekeeper for baseline consciousness, the bottleneck. Once you have done all the work kundalini makes it a constant reality for the most gross self. It's like the actualization software. Permanent shifts, fully embodied and incarnated shifts, full circle shifts, have always kundalini in them.

Edited October 25, 2023 by Davino

[Salvijus]

Those peak states are not even important. If you do the practices daily for about 1,5-2 years (based on my experience and some other people I talked to) you'll begin to feel mysterious energy/prana/chi vibrating inside your body. Then your job is to make it grow more and more just by watering the plant with daily practices and eventually your entire body will be glowing and cracking with this insane energy. Then you'll be in a permanent lsd state. But it will be much more Devine and sagely and pure because it's sober. Even the atmosphere around would get charged with divinity. 

Btw not draining the Jing energy through various addictions would help to get there faster. But all in due time. All in due time... 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Salvijus

[Javfly33]

2 hours ago, Salvijus said:

Those peak states are not even important. If you do the practices daily for about 1,5-2 years (based on my experience and some other people I talked to) you'll begin to feel mysterious energy/prana/chi vibrating inside your body. Then your job is to make it grow more and more just by watering the plant with daily practices and eventually your entire body will be glowing and cracking with this insane energy. Then you'll be in a permanent lsd state. But it will be much more Devine and sagely and pure because it's sober. Even the atmosphere around would get charged with divinity. 

Btw not draining the Jing energy through various addictions would help to get there faster. But all in due time. All in due time... 

ok thanks, I hope I soon can get to a daily practice again. 

You are right addictions probably slow down the process a lot. 

[strika]

4 hours ago, Salvijus said:

Those peak states are not even important. If you do the practices daily for about 1,5-2 years (based on my experience and some other people I talked to) you'll begin to feel mysterious energy/prana/chi vibrating inside your body. Then your job is to make it grow more and more just by watering the plant with daily practices and eventually your entire body will be glowing and cracking with this insane energy. Then you'll be in a permanent lsd state. But it will be much more Devine and sagely and pure because it's sober. Even the atmosphere around would get charged with divinity. 

Btw not draining the Jing energy through various addictions would help to get there faster. But all in due time. All in due time... 

Absolute facts

[LfcCharlie4]

You are it 

This is it

Eating the apple is it. 

Maybe you're after an exotic experience? 

 

For me, transmissions was required 

 

[Javfly33]

2 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

You are it 

This is it

Eating the apple is it. 

Maybe you're after an exotic experience? 

 

For me, transmissions was required 

 

No, I'm after stop suffering

Oneness or love is not an exotic state, is a state outside the mind.

This is not about morality, is about you being Consciousness and being able to step outside the mind when you are not using it.

You have a hand. You can use this hand to pick up a glass of water and then you can put it down when you want when you are done drinking.

If suddenly you can't stop picking up the glass constantly, we would say you have a problem, isn't it?

In the same way humans can not drop the mind. This is sickness.

And the fact that people defend the sickness and see any intent to get out of the sickness as "hedonistic chasing states" or something like that, is really sad, and makes me think most people are not serious about freedom.