I'm Racist And I Want To Stop

[SFRL]

Join a gym, sport, activity, or group where there is a big mix of ethnicities. 

Racism is learned behaviour. And it can be unlearned I believe. 

Edited April 7, 2017 by STC

[Wind]

Get to know one of them. Make a goal to meet and make one or few cool black people your friends.

[Socrates]

First of all to clarify I am against any kind of racism.

@zazed Islamophobia killed my brother?

You have probably been emotionally manipulated so i am going to rant on this one.

Islam has nothing to do with racism. Islam is an ideology and SHOULD be criticized like every other ideology. You feel sympathy for muslims but the truth is that a religon that commands its followers to kill infidels shouldn't be welcome with open arms.

 Islamophobia is a made up word that is commonly used by emotional manipulators and leftists to support the radical beliefs of islam, terrorism and push their political agenda. If you criticize a religon that supports murder of gays and infidels makes you racist? Are ideologies races from now on? Maybe christians should call out christianophobia when someone criticizes their religion. This is straight up manipulation for gullible people that can't think for themselves. Hope you can see the pattern here and undarstand that islam is NOT a religion of peace. If you are still skeptical about this check what happened in Sweden or should i say the rape capital of Europe where Muslims are allowed without any background check and violent crimes increased by 300% and rapes by 1472%.

tldr: Criticism of Islam and its followers is not racism but a must for everyone that supports peace.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Socrates

[Steph1988]

@Socrates I like that you bring that up you are absolutely right and some people have some kind of pathological need to completely embrace and defend everything that looks kinda exotic i find it absolutely sickening, it is conformity at its worst and the people who are fanatically against questioning ( yes just questioning............ ) Islam should be relentlessly and mercilessly ridiculed yes u read that correctly i mean that.

All religions should be investigated as objectively as possible they should be under scrutiny and Islam is especially dubious.

As for racism it should be completely obvious that it is absurd, the few true racists i came across were just often really dumb people mostly frustrated with life and externalizing their problems. 

i cannot discover true malignant racism in the starting post do not call yourself a racist that fast! but you can contemplate why u get that eerie feeling do that i bet its not true racism.

 

[Bob84]

On 3/31/2017 at 5:22 PM, a e l i said:

Rationally, I understand that not all people of a certain group are the same... And I acknowledge that an open-minded person doesn't assume things about someone before getting to know them well. I also have proved this to myself, since I do know some black people who I consider to be good. 

Why do you think you are a rasist?

Everyone judges a book by its cover. Its only when we start reading the book that that changes. 

Ontop of that they tel us these books are realy bad, on a daily bases. So no wonder. That doesnt make it true. But it is normal behavior. One just has to look around to see this.

Being aware of this judging in the moment will change everything.

[zazed]

20 hours ago, Steph1988 said:

Islam should be relentlessly and mercilessly ridiculed

I agree, and most of them will actually be ok with that. I have a Muslim friend, and i make friendly jests about his religion all the time in private with him, and he can laugh with it. For example whether certain anime is Halal, he especially likes anime with some teasing nudity in it.  
Sadly many people seem to be blind for everything except the extremists.

 

@Socrates You are plain wrong. I am an atheist, so it doesn't really apply to me much, but i hate hatred  
It's also a weird perspective, I don't fully understand what you are pushing here, do you advocate killing 1.7 billion people, over 23% of the world population is Islam?

Islam is used by many terrorist organisations to help them recruit people, because conveniently everyone in the neighborhood is Islam. You are confusing the propaganda for the cause, the causes are terrorist leaders operating from the safety of their home, the propaganda is the tool they use. Don't hate the tool, hate, or kill, the leaders (without making martyrs obviously, that rarely helps).
Another interesting fact, is that lately many terrorists are home grown in Europe. Were these people are radicalized and brain-washed into blowing themselves up in some fashion. Brain-washing has little to do with Islam.

You make a very big mistake, because Islam is not a centralized religion, there is no one Islam. There is also no one Islamic "holy pope". Most Islamic people are just quietly living their life in peace, just like you are trying to do. If you look at the map, you will notice you have never even heard of most Islamic countries, and there are billions of them:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e4/Muslim_Percent_Population_v2.svg

It's gross generalization to say, "christian's are such, Muslims are such". But it is an easy and comfortable answer: "Islam is such, done!". To generalize an entire people as evil for the problems with a small minority is just plain narrow-minded, and black and white thinking. Most people are smart enough to realize, you cannot just put a label on people like that, there is so many gradations of grey.
I have a Muslim friend, and the idea of him supporting killing anyone is absurd, i also think he is secretly gay and afraid to admit it. It is also a fact that it would likely get him killed since he lives in Saudi somewhere. Still he does all the Islamic holidays and practices.

People advocating killing of infidels or gays should be arrested and prosecuted, period. I'm for killing every person that actually wants to kill non-Islam persons. I'll be the first to pull the trigger even, doesn't even matter if they are Islam themselves, it's the killing that is wrong, not the reason.  

The point is, killing is wrong. People killing other people are wrong and should be put to justice.
People reading a book you disagree with, and you think probably causes killing, not so much. That is just your opinion man. 


Given, i'm not a big fan of their book, and it's not the most peaceful literature. But to say that it is only about killing is wrong.
There are many insights and wisdoms in it, but it is true it can be a bit unrespectful of other religions. That doesn't mean we should hate or kill everyone that want's to believe Islam. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. 

Also, remember most kids just believe what their parents tell them to believe. I grew up a christian and was forced to go to church.
Now 20years later, churches in Europe are empty and nobody really cares anymore about Christianity, except a minority. Many people claiming to be christian, haven't read the bible and go to search to marry or baptize children, or to see other people marry or baptize their children and for funerals. Like a handful times in their lives, purely as social obligation, not out of fate.

Additionally, if you were really schooled about the situation in the middle east. You would know that much of it is caused by western influence there, more pointedly our hunger for the oils. We played a big role in the destabilizing of the region. And it is not actually Islam causing terrorism, but it is the unstability of the region providing a breeding ground for extremists. To fix it, the region needs to be stabilized, unless you propose killing them all?

[Loreena]

@zazed  Super bulldozer has arrived. 

[zazed]

@Loreena What do you mean?  Am i the super bulldozer, and is this a compliment or something bad?

[Socrates]

43 minutes ago, zazed said:

do you advocate killing 1.7 billion people, over 23% of the world population is Islam?

Where did you see me say that? This is the definition of red herring/strawman logical fallacy, what do you try to accomplish with that statement? I never implied anything that suggested any killings. I was just critizing their ideology.

43 minutes ago, zazed said:

There is also no one Islamic "holy pope"

Not a holy pope but a holy book (Quran) in this case which in fact promotes violence and bigoted beliefs.

43 minutes ago, zazed said:

People advocating killing of infidels or gays should be arrested and prosecuted, period

Their holy book advocates killing infidels and gay people. 

43 minutes ago, zazed said:

People reading a book you disagree with, and you think probably causes killing, not so much. That is just your opinion man. 

It is not my opinion it is a fact. Quran promotes violence and hatred.

Why do people who criticize islam get murdered then?

What are you trying to do here? be tolerant of intolerance?

 

Edited April 11, 2017 by Socrates

[Loreena]

39 minutes ago, zazed said:

@Loreena What do you mean?  Am i the super bulldozer, and is this a compliment or something bad?

You're the super bulldozer. 

[zazed]

@Socrates The main gripe i have with your post is this : "the truth is that a religon that commands its followers to kill infidels"

But it is not a religion itself that command's it followers to kill infidels.
It is certain charismatic terrorist leaders recruiting and convincing people to do this.

I may have said some things that can be easily refuted if you cherry pick. Yes i unknowingly used a straw man fallacy.
But i was more trying to ask the question. What is your proposed solution then? These 1.6 billion Muslims are here, they are not going to go away over night, what to do?

You should be allowed to make jokes about a religion, as i stated in my post. Yes they did and do retaliate, but again, brainwashed individuals and terrorist leaders are the culprits. Not your average Joe Islam, with a wife and kids at home, like there are 1.6 billions.
If i go out with some friends tomorrow, and kill some columnist for making a joke about Jesus, and say we're christian crusaders. Does that suddenly make all Christians a problem, or we just idiots that needs to be locked up?
That is where you are falling into the fallacy of black and white thinking:  "A few thousand Islam are terrorists, so the full 1.6 billion must be so." It's oversimplification and bad mathematical statistics too. And yes you are not saying this literally, but you are implying it by saying Islam is wrong as a religion.

As for criticizing Islam, i don't see the added value, or how that solves anything.
The only solution is stabilizing the middle east. Spewing hatred on the internet will do the opposite and further antagonize people.

I agreed in the end, that their book is not the most open-minded towards other religions.
But there are still wisdom's in it, and kind things too. It does not automatically make every believer dangerous or a problem.

 

[h inandout]

I was criticized a lot for studying buddhism.  No one in my family or peer group or even my partner understood why I would care to study how to sit quietly.  All they had associated with the practice was a bunch of projected memories of how buddhists had been so self-righteous and uppity around them.  I totally relate, because I've felt intimidated and insulted pseudo-buddhists before as well.  But all this criticism built in me sooooo much painful turmoil, that I wouldn't even do a daily sit in the morning.  I would just pretend to sleep if I wanted some peace and quiet.  It was unbelievably hard to live like this, not knowing how I could simply ask to be more silent, without coming across as very awkward. It was so sad because studying buddhism not only brought me peace and solace, but it also brought me closer to the people in those very same relationships.  It caused me so much distress to no be accepted as the growing, learning, hoping for more person that I am that I broke and made some very bad choices that I regret because they hurt me and other people.  Just consider.  It is very hard to develop a peaceful dynamic when the message from the get-go is that you're not welcome here....

I also want to mention that while we sort out the aspects of this that are related to racism and the aspects that are related to ideology, maybe consider some economic, cultural, age, social and gender components too.  

Just be kind to those around you, and try to see into them, and be willing to release your projections.  Also be willing to let them see into you. Maybe they can learn something beautiful about how you do life, even if they have to release some of their projections.

Edited April 11, 2017 by MissMiki

[Steph1988]

@zazed maybe this is not the right post to post this and you probably might not watch it but i feel very urged to show it,

This is a very good presentation on Islam, its objective and he actually talks in a respectful way about Muslims.

Btw my quote was actually that the fanatic debate stoppers and racism screamers should be ridiculed because these people are simply against freedom of speech. Islam should be ridiculed of course just like any other religion because i feel if these institutes have so many followers it should handle criticism if they cannot stand simple objective criticism and a little bit of ridicule then all alarm bells should go off in your mind.

anyway i dare you to watch it entirely if you don't like to of course that is fine  i don't want to be nag on it.

And important if you have a pro Islam piece to show i WILL watch it i promise i want to hear all sides on this discussion because i find this topic interesting.

Edited April 11, 2017 by Steph1988

[h inandout]

I could totally share some fun media that would tell a different story, but I'm gonna challenge you to share something enriching of the opossing viewpoint.  @Steph1988

To be fair, I'll nominate Ayaan Hirsi Ali.  While overall, I lean away from the overall narrative that her work is used to support, I have to give her full respect for telling her story and her truth, and for her bravery and for expanding my worldview significantly.

[zazed]

@Steph1988 I already shared a video from a Muslim perspective. Other than that I have little to no interest in Muslims. It's not an important issue for me. Aside from the fact that i don't like generalization.

Human beings are all individuals and unique, and putting labels on people, like christian, buddhist, muslim, black, white, is factually incorrect(not even talking about morals here). There are many types of black people, many types of Christians, many types of white people. You can not say a Christian is always so, a muslim is always so, a buddhist is always so without being totally deluded and stuck in black and white thinking. If people honestly think all Muslims are the same, because they all believe in the same book, that is dogmatic thinking i cannot refute. It shows little life experience and knowledge of the world at large. No two people in this world think and behave the same.

Anything more i can say would be just the same, and would be a circular discussion. 
It's a very easy and simplistic view to generalize like that, and to put people into categories and then treat them based on these categories.
 

A point was made by some, that we should be able to criticize Islams. But that point is a total side track to the discussion and a way to hijack this thread to bash Islam. This thread about racism and my post about Muslims never stated we cannot criticize Islamic people. Nobody here stated it was forbidden to criticize. My post was showing a video with a story, on how a white american entered an american Muslims home, and executed him, for no reason. Well, the reason was racism and hate of Islam, most likely. Let's be clear, killing a Muslim does not fall under the allowed context of criticizing, it's just murder, and a hate crime in this context...

I should have read my own post again, before replying to @Socrates, because i allowed myself to be completely side-tracked in the heat of the moment.

[SOUL]

We all have biases and they can cause negative thoughts and feelings in us. When we allow the negativity to cultivate animosity or hatred of others rooted in this bias it results in one of the "isms" or "phobias".

 

Although, you are aware of these biases in you, if you aren't letting it become a hatred you aren't an "ist", it's just a simple bias and we all have them from our experiences in life. If you would like to change that bias you need to have other experiences that counter the bias and provide evidence for a different bias to it, a positive one.

 

I know you got some love for being honest in admitting it but I would say you aren't one to begin with, you are just a human being trying to manage the bias conditioned in you that may not even be of your own doing, they rarely are with stuff like this. You are working to change this in you, that shows you aren't one, just another work in progress of healing.

[Steph1988]

@MissMiki show me the different story, show me the most positive stuff that would prove me wrong .

But that video is the best one i have seen on opposing viewpoint i find it enriching because it deals with data and it is objective but i cannot show you something that would be 100% positive and brings people together.

 

[h inandout]

You could watch Little Mosque on the Prairie or La Haine (both works of fiction).  I wish I could link you this story that came out in the local magazine this week about how a 26 year old refugee has been adapting to life in the US ever since she immigrated 5 years ago from Afganistan.  Definitely a success story.

I did watch the video you posted, and learned something from it, specifically historical information that really does broaden my understanding of the back and forth fight between civilizations.  I worry about how his overall atitude is influenced by more sinister motivations (conciously or unconciously), because yes our war was very profitable for a few select corporations.  I also believe that a growing number of Americans believe that our own government may have had something to do with planning the 911 bombings (take it or leave it).  Either way, what unfair trade policies could we have had to provoke such an attack anyways?  Of course, how can we know if the war zone refugees are radicalized or not anyways, well honestly I don't know what our policy has been...

To bring it back to self development, maybe the reason why I look at it the way I do, and continue to have an interest in immigrant rights is because I have seen first hand how large systems can have a tendency to swallow up or completely disenfranchise normal human beings who have different cultural backgrounds or political status.  I would be deeply moved to work in any immigrant/minority community (new or old) to help maintain the flow of resources and cultural exchange.  Immigrants add so so much to our economy and rainbow of cultures here.  It's why I'm fluent in Spanish, and why I know so much about traditions and histories outside of the one in which I was raised.  I get tired of how stagnant my parents worldview can be, so that also has something to do with it.

[h inandout]

A quick side note is that yes, I have also seen first hand how those who are disenfranchised may internalize a victim or reactinary mindset that no longer serves them after a conflict has ended.  I have had problems with mindset, aslo, so thanks to Leo for putting some perspective on that.

[SFRL]

54 minutes ago, Maxx said:

@a e l i Typical German problems. First of all, who said that racism means to have prejudices against other races? I have heard this many times, but I think this assumption is wrong. How about it can mean to have love towards their own culture for example? And maybe these "evil racist people" all around you do have point, and they just prefer european culture over middle-eastern muslim culture. They want to see their children growing up in a western type of culture maybe. What do you think? 

I think it's not sustainable. Any culture will eventually cease to exist. And with globalization that will only happen more and faster then ever before.