One insight that helps you cut through bullshit

[HMD]

There is Truth and then there is deviation from Truth. There is no up and down (with regard to a hierarchy). 
 

This is just a half baked insight. Add to it anything that comes up.

[vibv]

There are hierarchies of Truth.

There's nothing but Truth, but you can be aware of only a tiny sliver of it. That's still true, but if you mistake it for the whole, suffering will arise one way or the other.

[HMD]

19 hours ago, vibv said:

but you can be aware of only a tiny sliver of it

@vibv that’s an assumption. It is difficult to be aware of the full Truth.  Difficult, but possible. 

And once you have that, you can keep honing it. And get a clear senese of what isn’t true. 

[Breakingthewall]

The word truth is confusing, since it suggests knowing something as opposed to being wrong. I would say that what we call truth is openness, and openness is dissolution of limiting structures.

Without any structure what remains is unlimited existence. This is the truth but it is not thinkable since thinking is always structure.

Epicurus says: if I am, death is not, if death is, I am not. You can change death for truth and the phrase is still valid. The self veils the truth, or absolute reality, and the denser the self, the more veiled it is. The self is the door that closes the truth. The door without door that is spoken in spirituality means that to access you have to drop yourself into the void, a quite difficult action since it's you who want to dissolve yourself.

To what degree is the dissolution of the self possible? not to a full degree because a full degree is death

[HMD]

@Breakingthewall Yeah that makes sense. Because once you dissolve all the structures, what you are left is the void that you speak of and at that point, there is no sense of self to experience Truth. The Truth just is. 

That's kind of what I was trying to say. There is the infinite chaos and then there is structured reality. 

But the order is also part of the chaos. We just have to recontextualize it as such. Like relative truth is still part of the absolute. 

But Leo suggests a good way to view this. As infinite mind. God mind. Everything is part of it. 

So yes, you need order/structure to live. To have a bias against it is a repression of Love and Truth. But if you recontextualize the order as part of the chaos then life goes better. 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, HMD said:

left is the void that you speak of and at that point, there is no sense of self to experience Truth

Yes but emptiness is a limited perspective, if there are no limits, reality is everything, full of existence.

The human pattern of existence brings with it the construction of mental structures, since we are a hive entity. Each individual must fit among other individuals, that perception of oneself in relation to others is the self. The self is made up of very powerful structures whose basis is the survival of the individual and the species, and they always create a limited reality. Penetrating these structures and dissolving them is the spiritual work we are supposed to do, since behind them is the total existence that is the only thing that exists, but not the "only" since it's everything. It is right here, now, we don't need to know anything just open ourself to it. This moment is eternal, bottomless and is the totality of existence.

What I don't know is to what extent we can perceive how patterns are created and why. It seems that reality creates increasingly complex patterns to crazy levels, like a human, in a cyclical way, how and why you can intuit because all of that is now, here. If the flow of existence is perceived, the depth becomes manifest, but there are always human distractions that take us out of there.

[HMD]

6 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

What I don't know is to what extent we can perceive how patterns are created and why.

To infinity? I mean, reality is infinite so it can create infinite patterns. And theoretically we can precieve these patterns with ever increasing levels of consciousness. 

[Breakingthewall]

53 minutes ago, HMD said:

To infinity? I mean, reality is infinite so it can create infinite patterns. And theoretically we can precieve these patterns with ever increasing levels of consciousness. 

This is something that is difficult for me to see. who understands the reality? What is understanding?

Let's see, at this moment you or anything that exists is creating itself, there is no external agent. That is, everything that we are, the quadrillion atoms each in its exact place, that perfect pattern, I am making it, reality, but there is an I, the one that is now trying to see deeper, that is not conscious. to do that and it couldn't even remotely be. You might think, well, it just happens by itself, nature, you know... but no, this organized perfection is creating itself now. If it is doing it, it is because it is perfectly aware of doing it, otherwise it would be impossible. Where is this infinite consciousness? because it seems it is outside of this experience, hidden. where is?

It would be said that there are two selves, one that is the one that now perceives itself and that tries to open itself to this moment, merge with the now, and another, the total now without limit that creates itself. Everything that lives and is aware of itself as a being has this duplicity. To be aware of oneself as a being, one must have senses, pain, hunger. Thus reality doubles, and in the human case, it seems to triple. on the one hand the total reality creating this now, this structure, on the other the separate being that feels pain and hunger, and above it the entity without substance that thinks, the mind fed by the collective with language, which creates a temporal vision of its existence, a story.

This mind must first be able to become one with the being that feels pain and hunger now, with the life that is. Some call this enlightenment, or non-duality, but where is true consciousness? the infinite consciousness that creates the now? That what would be called god, the total intelligence that flows. To what extent can the self be conscious of God, or one with God? Does anyone know this or has known it in human history? I don't think so

[HMD]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

creating itself now. If it is doing it, it is because it is perfectly aware of doing it

Consider this: It (the infinite consiousness) is creating it and then also creating self-deception mechanisms so that the creation can forget it's origin and start acting as a distinct being. A human being. And by overcoming these self-deceptions it can realize its true nature. 

To what extent can this be done? I think it's do able. The merging of self with infinity. The surrender. But it's an infinite game as there is no end to how conscious you can become. That's what infinite consciousness suggests. Infinity. Now if it's sustainable as the base level of functioning? I do not know. 

And don't you think that all three layers you described are just one? Infinite consciousness? But separation arises because of the self-deception mechanisms? 

Edited October 21, 2023 by HMD

[HMD]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

understands the reality? What is understanding?

Reality is understanding itself, perhaps. The subject and object are seprated by deception. 

Understanding is a manifestation of love. The ability of infinite consciousness (as a limited form) to grasp itself. 

[Breakingthewall]

10 hours ago, HMD said:

Consider this: It (the infinite consiousness) is creating it and then also creating self-deception mechanisms so that the creation can forget it's origin

I don't think that reality makes a deliberate act of self-deception to forget its nature, rather it seems that reality produces levels of consciousness for each function spontaneously.

The basic reality, without structure, is total infinity, which manifests itself with deep meditation, psychedelics, 5meo, etc. This reality is not aware of anything defined, it is pure existence that occurs due to the absence of limits.

From this reality, levels of consciousness emerge that are conscious and define increasingly complex patterns. For example, the level of consciousness that creates a human brain is not the same that creates atomic structures. they are all ultimately the same, but are virtually separated into levels. The level of consciousness that I am right now, the self, has the function of managing this human organism, but it cannot access the atomic structures, even everything is related.

The level of consciousness from which we function can expand and deepen, and can temporarily merge with total consciousness, but it is in a specific dimension and always returns to it. The question is how far this level can be expanded and deepened, how much it can understand.

[HMD]

4 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

don't think that reality makes a deliberate act of self-deception to forget its nature, rather it seems that reality produces levels of consciousness for each function spontaneously.

What do you think about self-deception then? 

What about radical changes in state? You can change your state so much that you can’t go back to your previous state. 

Like, it would be so radical that we can not call it deepening or expanding. And you can still serve other purposes from this new state that the other state served. 

But yeah, you can’t serve the purpose of survival from high deep states of consciousness. Because the cost of ascending to that state is letting go of the current self state. 

[Breakingthewall]

10 minutes ago, HMD said:

What do you think about self-deception then? 

I think self deception is a misconception. That story of: I am God but I deceive myself to have a fun experience seems completely wrong to me. This is not how reality works, God is not a guy who gets bored and does fun things, he is a primordial force, he is the result of the absence of limits that makes the infinite, and manifests in infinite cycles of existence. There is no self-deception, there is limitation due to the need to focus on the concrete. Spirituality is defocusing on the concrete, opening up to the formless. 

[HMD]

5 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

there is limitation

This limitation is what I am referring to as self-deception. The whole God got bored thing is a simplification for newbies to make sense of it. 
 

self-deception is a genius and divine mechanism through which “concrete” reality is created. If we didn’t have these limitations then there would be no “reality”. 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, HMD said:

This limitation is what I am referring to as self-deception. The whole God got bored thing is a simplification for newbies to make sense of it. 

For me it is not a simplification, it is an error. God is not something defined, it is total reality. What we are for me is more like a larval state, an evolutionary leap from the experience of the animal tied to its immovable concrete cycle to something else, a pattern that in turn creates another pattern that evolves independently: the mind. Reality creates increasingly complex wonders, cycles with more vital richness, and the opening of the human mind to unlimited reality is like completing a cycle. Reality is pushing in that direction. His push always translates into millions of trials, a huge torrent of emergences. I believe that humans are destined to be totally open to the source of reality, but who knows, maybe that is not the case. just insights

[HMD]

14 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

believe that humans are destined to be totally open to the source of reality,

I believe that too. Because all of us have an affinity towards Truth and higher consciousness, to various degrees. We can ignore this drive, and most people do, but this wilful ignorance renders us miserable. There is a distinct satisfaction experienced when we open ourselves up to the reality that is impossible to find anywhere else. So, reality is nudging itself to experience itself at deeper and deeper levels. 

 

And by cycles do you mean systems? 

Edited October 23, 2023 by HMD

[HMD]

@Dez I'll check it out