Does Owen really think what he preaches around the Covid pandemic?

[Miguel1]

Owen Cook. I really look upto this guy and he has been a role model for the past 15 years but what the hell are all the stuff he spouts out around the Covid pandemic?

Is this some kind of scheme to push people to think for themselves and learn critical thinking?

I dont think he would spout such nonsense just to push people to do so. It would actually achieve the opposite.

Anti-mainstream is not critical thinkint and thinking for yourself. In a lot of cases if not most, it is more sheep thinkint than mainstream thinking.

Someone make sense to me?

Perhaps I just gotta accept that he has some hella weird ideas and blindspots, just like everyone else.

I can still learn a lot from him.

——-

In a nutshell, he thinks that people who took Covid seriously and the vaccines, are sheeps who couldnt think for themselves and just blindly followed the masses.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Migue Lonas said:

In a nutshell, he thinks that people who took Covid seriously and the vaccines, are sheeps who couldnt think for themselves and just blindly followed the masses.

That is his worldview.

His worldview is quite twisted by trying to be anti-mainstream and trying to "escape the matrix". He believes that people are sleep-walking through life, which then gives him a distorted view of politics and government, which is designed for the masses, not rebels like him.

He has a rebel's bias.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Consept]

What I always find funny is that in the comments there will be 1 guy that questions Owens stance on covid and then you'll get tons of replies saying 'we've found the sheep' or 'why don't you think for yourself and do research'. The irony of multiple replies saying the same thing, accusing one comment of being a sheep is hilarious. 

BTW this is not limited to Owen, it happens all the time on all sides. I think a good test of your audiences critical thinking skills is if they disagree with you respectfully 

[An young being]

3 hours ago, Migue Lonas said:

In a nutshell, he thinks that people who took Covid seriously and the vaccines, are sheeps who couldnt think for themselves and just blindly followed the masses.

I have seen people around me die like bees in dozens. Some people believe in things followed by masses blindly. Some people speak against anything people do in masses, believing that if we do anything that majority does, we are wrong. Though both groups play their role in the society, both belong to the closed minded category. 

I don't know anything about him though. I have to see his videos to understand his mentality.

[Raze]

He was personally affected by the pandemic. He said his kids grandmother died because covid shutdowns stopped her from getting cancer treatments and his barber died from an overdose because the shutdown cancelled his recovery meetings. It also collapsed his business and a lot of his friends businesses and where he shops because he doesn’t trust mainstream stores and encouraged his clients to start small businesses but the lockdown crushed them.

During the pandemic he said he was invited to parties with rich famous people and politicians who publicly were supporting lockdowns and restrictions but at the parties weren’t following them at all, he posted a story of the Walmart heirs driving a pug around in a toy car in a huge party where no one was wearing masks for example. 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Raze

[Danioover9000]

@Migue Lonas

On 18/10/2023 at 10:12 AM, Migue Lonas said:

Owen Cook. I really look upto this guy and he has been a role model for the past 15 years but what the hell are all the stuff he spouts out around the Covid pandemic?

Is this some kind of scheme to push people to think for themselves and learn critical thinking?

I dont think he would spout such nonsense just to push people to do so. It would actually achieve the opposite.

Anti-mainstream is not critical thinkint and thinking for yourself. In a lot of cases if not most, it is more sheep thinkint than mainstream thinking.

Someone make sense to me?

Perhaps I just gotta accept that he has some hella weird ideas and blindspots, just like everyone else.

I can still learn a lot from him.

——-

In a nutshell, he thinks that people who took Covid seriously and the vaccines, are sheeps who couldnt think for themselves and just blindly followed the masses.

   No different than Russel Brand, he got the anti mainstream anti establishment bug in his mind.

   At least Owen wasn't a hardcore drug and sex addict, and a party animal.

[Miguel1]

Thanks guys. Makes sense.

[undeather]

I have a soft spot for Owen.
But I am at a point of my life where I realise that most of my earlier "heroes" (and that includes him) are highly delusional in some very fundamental sense. Real and honest sensemaking skills have become such a rare quality - and while a lot of individuals think of themselves as "critical thinkers", reality hits hard when you actually read what they have to say about a given topic. 

Leo & others already mentioned that Owen has an anti-establishment/anti-mainstream bias. I would go even further and say that this kind of mind-virus is endemic in personal developement scene. 
 

Edited October 21, 2023 by undeather

[zurew]

Is that actually his position on this matter or is that just a marketing strategy or some kind of a virtue signal ("look im not a sheep) to reach a bigger audience?

Both cases are bad, but the difference is that in the first (where he genuinely believes it) he is making very weak and bad inferences and logical jumps - shortly cant figure out whats up because his bias ; in the second case he is actually a bad faith and greedy actor.

Edited October 21, 2023 by zurew

[Leo Gura]

He def believes it.

You have to understand how deeply this issue ties in with his whole way of surviving.

The guy makes a living going out to nightclubs and teaching people how to be social. Of course he will be anti lock downs and social distancing and all that. And he will have a story for why this stuff is wrong.

As a general rule pickup guys are quite biased. You need to have a twisted mind to justify how typical PUAs treat women.

Edited October 21, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Raze]

49 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

He def believes it.

You have to understand how deeply this issue ties in with his whole way of surviving.

The guy makes a living going out to nightclubs and teaching people how to be social. Of course he will be anti lock downs and social distancing and all that. And he will have a story for why this stuff is wrong.

As a general rule pickup guys are quite biased. You need to have a twisted mind to justify how typical PUAs treat women.

Studies have actually found lockdowns don’t work and overall cause more harm than benefit.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9368251/

https://iea.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Perspectives-_1_Did-lockdowns-work__June_web-1.pdf

[Leo Gura]

47 minutes ago, Raze said:

Studies have actually found lockdowns don’t work and overall cause more harm than benefit.

People have such short memories.

The purpose of the lockdowns was to slow the spread of the virus so that hospitals were not overrun and so that a vaccine could be developed. Remember, this was a novel virus. Its effects were not fully known. You cannot just retroactively apply today's knowledge backwards through time. For example, it was not known how this virus affects children.

But even if lockdowns don't work, we didn't know that at the time, so caution was still the right strategy.

Also, Owen's position is more than anti-lockdown.

Edited October 21, 2023 by Leo Gura

[PurpleTree]

oh great another covid discussion 💜

[Danioover9000]

@Leo Gura

On 2023-10-21 at 10:10 PM, Leo Gura said:

People have such short memories.

The purpose of the lockdowns was to slow the spread of the virus so that hospitals were not overrun and so that a vaccine could be developed. Remember, this was a novel virus. Its effects were not fully known. You cannot just retroactively apply today's knowledge backwards through time. For example, it was not known how this virus affects children.

But even if lockdowns don't work, we didn't know that at the time, so caution was still the right strategy.

Also, Owen's position is more than anti-lockdown.

   That's true, I agree the initial purpose is to slow down a novel virus from spreading, even though at that timeline we don't know enough about Covid, we do know enough that Covid was spreading fast due to how quickly the Chinese government converted warehouses into makeshift hospital beds, and how Covid had effected Italy when it ignored WHO warnings. I also agree that we shouldn't apply today's knowledge backwards and judge a virus going from epidemic to pandemic because we slip the assumption that knowledge is A-priori, so what we think todays applies to what we thought then, in that time period, so we then jump the conclusion that we should've done this or that when we really don't know much other than high spreading and what was happening in Wuhan and in Italy. 

[Miguel1]

Aside from Covid and his position on it,

How would you guys define him through the filter of Spiral Dynamics?

Trying to make sense. Such a complicated person. He's everywhere from orange and above.

[undeather]

Quote

Aside from Covid and his position on it,

How would you guys define him through the filter of Spiral Dynamics?

Trying to make sense. Such a complicated person. He's everywhere from orange and above.

Owen definitely exhibits a fair amount of system thinking, which is hallmark of stage yellow. 
However, he is not a well integrated stage yellow and there are still a lot of first tier shadows he needs to work through.

[AerisVahnEphelia]

On 18/10/2023 at 0:27 PM, Leo Gura said:

That is his worldview.

His worldview is quite twisted by trying to be anti-mainstream and trying to "escape the matrix". He believes that people are sleep-walking through life, which then gives him a distorted view of politics and government, which is designed for the masses, not rebels like him.

He has a rebel's bias.

or maybe you're a bias toward your idea that an organic system such as a state cannot be corrupted " that much "

how would you know which it is, ho but you know better, I hope for you, because if that's not the case, you might not survive.

I mean, the good position is not to be a rebel or a believer in institutions, it's to be where one needs to be at the right time.

if you have convictions based on your feelings on how the world shall or has to be it might also be very dangerous.

[Danioover9000]

@AerisVahnEphelia

19 hours ago, AerisVahnEphelia said:

or maybe you're a bias toward your idea that an organic system such as a state cannot be corrupted " that much "

how would you know which it is, ho but you know better, I hope for you, because if that's not the case, you might not survive.

I mean, the good position is not to be a rebel or a believer in institutions, it's to be where one needs to be at the right time.

if you have convictions based on your feelings on how the world shall or has to be it might also be very dangerous.

   The greater good is realizing that anti establishments become the next establishments, the anti mainstream becomes the next mainstream. It's a vicious cycle that either bias and preference of ego just overlooks.