2 Jews and 2 Muslims takes on the Israel/Palestine conflict

[zazen]

 

 

 

 Some illuminating videos on the Israeli / Palestinian conflict. The two solutions (two state vs one state) seems to be hard to agree on as both have their flaws.

Two state solution: If you connect the West Bank with Gaza in form of a corridor you cut Israel in two. Daily crossings increase the insecurity of both states as subversives and possible threats seep in.

One state democratic solution: Palestinians demographically will be or end up being a majority to which Israeli's could feel threatened or will not allow to happen.

Possible third solution: Two states but connect West Bank and Gaza via a highway as to not split Israel in two and avoid daily border crossings between states and the insecurity that comes with it.

[FourCrossedWands]

4th solution:

Pay Palestinians big compensations and convince neighboring Muslim countries to take them into their lands.

Oh wait, they don't want them either...

[zazen]

1 hour ago, FourCrossedWands said:

4th solution:

Pay Palestinians big compensations and convince neighboring Muslim countries to take them into their lands.

Oh wait, they don't want them either...

I contemplated this also but looking at the facts of the situation it would be unviable for a few reasons beside the fact of displacing people from their land being immoral.

Europe - not just one country but a continent of wealthier countries who have more of a capability of accommodating refugees struggled to absorb 1.5 million migrants and that as well over a 8 year period.

Now imagine, not 1.5 million but 2 million Palestinians (just from Gaza alone - 2.8 million extra if your suggesting all Palestinians from West Bank also) migrate to already struggling countries who aren't as wealthy as European ones, a lot of which are war torn, and that too in the span of months not years. 

Egypt being the closest option is already strained with its 100million + population. The 1948 Arab Isreali wars that led to significant refugees triggered multiple coups in the middle east destabilising the region.

If Egypt destabilises, a population of 110 million people - Europe will face a migrant crises like no other.

Edited October 17, 2023 by zazen

[Leo Gura]

2 Jews and 2 Muslims walk into a bar...

50 years later they are still fighting.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Leo Gura

[PurpleTree]

mohamed hijab is horrible imo

 

[zazen]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

2 Jews and 2 Muslims walk into a bar...

50 years later they are still fighting.

And are still served being served by a Christian at the bar.

I must confess the devil in me went down the clickbait route - should have used this instead.

 

@PurpleTree He is versed in debate and apologetics but the problem I see with him and other muslims in particular is their delivery and tone is off-putting and aggressive - that doesn't invalidate his reasoning. They have reason to be angry but it doesn't help their cause when its brought in to debate and represent their cause.

Fear and intimidation shut off the rational mind. That is also a tactic of debate, to distract and emotionalise the other side so they become more illogical and incoherent in their rebuttals. 

Edited October 17, 2023 by zazen

[PurpleTree]

9 minutes ago, zazen said:

And are still served being served by a Christian at the bar.

I must confess the devil in me went down the clickbait route - should have used this instead.

 

@PurpleTree He is versed in debate and apologetics but the problem I see with him and other muslims in particular is their delivery and tone is off-putting and aggressive - that doesn't invalidate his reasoning. They have reason to be angry but it doesn't help their cause when its brought in to debate and represent their cause.

Fear and intimidation shut off the rational mind. That is also a tactic of debate, to distract and emotionalise the other side so they become more illogical and incoherent in their rebuttals. 

He is a „debater“ i used to watch some of the debates in london in the park. He doesn‘t want to listen and learn, he just wants to argue and win. Remember when tan came? The asian islamophobe with a swastika face tattoo

he lives in the stone age

always blaming the west yet doesn’t want to live in iran or saudi arabia, just another hypocrite 

i think he‘s dangerous and divisive

how can a person think and debate so much about religion? It’s sick, he’s a grifter

and his hat is silly

 

[Leo Gura]

34 minutes ago, zazen said:

And are still served being served by a Christian at the bar.

The Christian is selling both of them guns.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Leo Gura

[AerisVahnEphelia]

That makes Christianity the Truth then.

Oh, our Lord, full of grace.

Why do those savages think they can outcompete our church when the evidence is that we are the tolerance and the voice of God? Even they have a right to redemption.

Reminding myself every morning that Jesus died for our sins.

Amen.

[PurpleTree]

4 minutes ago, AerisVahnEphelia said:

That makes Christianity the Truth then.

Oh, our Lord, full of grace.

Why do those savages think they can outcompete our church when the evidence is that we are the tolerance and the voice of God? Even they have a right to redemption.

Reminding myself every morning that Jesus died for our sins.

Amen.

Jesus is bae

[Breakingthewall]

 

 

disappearance of Gaza, return of the occupied territories, economic compensation to Palestine and closure of borders.

[zazen]

Pretty mind blowing video from Scott Ritter on Israel’s situation which is worth a watch.

Some points from it:

•  The IDF are following the Dahiya doctrine. Wiki:“”The Dahiya doctrine, or Dahya doctrine,[1] is a military strategy of asymmetric warfare, outlined by former Israel Defense Forces (IDF) Chief of General Staff Gadi Eizenkot, which encompasses the destruction of the civilian infrastructure of regimes deemed to be hostile as a measure calculated to deny combatants the use of that infrastructure[2] and endorses the employment of "disproportionate force" to secure that end. “
• Hamas have tunnels deep enough to avoid any explosives from above to collapse them. They know what explosives Isreal procure and build to depths to avoid them having any affect.
• This is a trap to lure Isreal into over reaction and be condemned by the world because they know they follow the doctrine.
• Once lured in and Hezbollah gets involved all bets are off. They lost to Hezbollah twice, and Hezbollah has a honeycomb of tunnels in south Lebanon which they’d get slaughtered in not to mention a two front war and Syria from the Golan heights turning into a 3 front war.
• Two exercise drills were done the past two years by IDF called firm hand and chariots of fire which simulated them face to face with Hamas and in both they lost - according to Scott Ritter who seems highly qualified.
• IDF’s reservists aren’t battle hardened warriors like a lot of the Islamist fighters. They’re scared to go in, most of them would rather smoke hashish or go Dubai than face war.
• Once the international community has had enough of seeing Gazans killed and Hezbolllah getting more involved and on the brink of Iran possibly, US will step in to settle a solution and offer Isreal a strategic defeat to not lose face.

Edited October 17, 2023 by zazen

[itsadistraction]

Why there will never be peace in the middle East in our lifetime......

 

 

[Nemra]

On 10/17/2023 at 4:48 PM, Leo Gura said:

The Christian is selling both of them guns.

😂

Basically, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

The holy trinity of the war.