This is why a degree in psychology is not superior to spiritual knowledge

[Razard86]

This man is a Dr. of Psychology and doesn't even understand how humans work. He said humans don't want jobs. What he doesn't seem to understand is that every human wants to create something. Sure nobody wants to get a job working for someone creating what they want if it doesn't align with what you want to do, but everyone would love to have a "job" that allowed them to create what they want and get paid for it. Now some would use the term career, or business when they describe doing what you love on your own terms and use the term job as something you do just to make ends meet. Sure you can do that, but technically speaking a business can still be classified as a job, and so can a career, depends on how you want to use the term.

As a kid you played, play is creation, play is self-expression. This man with all of his academic learning doesn't know the truth of who he is, and thus will have an incomplete understanding of what is really going on. You can watch the video here.

This is just an example of the limitations of scholastic knowledge, eventually you will have to leave the confines of those limitations to increase your own understanding. 

Also notice how he uses an economic model and tries to force that model on relationships. He said relationships are the medium through which value is extracted. Sure you can use that model but then you would have to define value. In his model the limitations would be based on what is good for my survival. But this model fails to uphold in say a parent-child relationship, because initially the child gets all the value based on his model. 

He is right on this point though..."Most people don't want a relationship they want what a relationship can give them." But I would turn that around on him and say....who taught them that? The current adults are a reflection of their parents and what they taught them. Every generation is a reflection of the prior generation. So if you think the current generation is more selfish than you, ask yourself why did you raise them to be selfish? 

What he doesn't realize is relationships are not on the decline because their needs are being met elsewhere, relationships are on the decline because humans have to be RAISED and TAUGHT HOW TO SOCIALIZE!!! We do not do a satisfactory job on raising children on how to socialize because we focus on two things to our detriment. MONEY and ENTERTAINMENT! We also do not customize our education system to help each child reach their true creative potential. We have turned the school systems into some factory that just churns out robots. We do not emphasize critical thinking in the way we create our tests or in the way we teach. Anyway that's a whole different topic.

Basically in short we do not emphasize self-honesty, acceptance of differences, selflessness, we push this onto the churches and religions not realizing that the school system is the biggest proponent outside of parents in what value systems the children grow up with. Religion has lost its hold on creating and promoting cooperative value systems so what gets replaced are values in favor of competition over cooperation. When ever you ask the question....how did we get here? The answer is EASY....the parents.....and the school system!!! I'm not blaming them as devils, I am saying they are the foundation of society!!! The foundation of society is not the government, the foundation is the parents and the school system and to a lesser degree the churches.

[Alex M]

 You can't judge a degree/PhD in psychology based on one person. And against what/who's spiritual knowledge are you making this distinction?

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, Alex M said:

 You can't judge a degree/PhD in psychology based on one person. And against what/who's spiritual knowledge are you making this distinction?

Your question isn't even coherent enough for a sufficient answer but I'll unpack it anyway.

1. Spiritual knowledge deals with getting to the core of everything. As such Spiritual knowledge taps into all available knowledge systems. Psychology is just one form of knowledge system. Psychology does not take into account biology, psychics, etc.

2. Your point about judging psychology based on one person is YOUR interpretation. Can I sit here and post every single psychology professor's talking points? There isn't room enough for that and that is inefficient. What is more efficient is look at the field of psychology as a whole and discover its biases. 

3. Spiritual knowledge is universal knowledge so I'm not making distinctions between anything, YOU are making those distinctions and projecting it onto me. Spiritual knowledge deals with being which is the source of all knowledge. The only reason you are able to use your hand is because you are conscious of your hand. So being aware of your hand is BEING. What you say about the hand is open to your interpretation, but without even being aware of the hand itself you can't even think or extrapolate a perspective about it.

This is why it is better to focus on raising your awareness of being. Why? Because you can't even expand your thinking if you aren't aware of the ways to expand it. You have to first be aware of expansion, to actually expand. 

[UnbornTao]

Pursue both, if you want! Not mutually-exclusive.

Edited October 20, 2023 by UnbornTao

[Razard86]

On 10/16/2023 at 5:35 PM, UnbornTao said:

Pursue both, if you want! Not mutually-exclusive.

Exactly. But if you pursue the spiritual path, its going to dive into everything anyway if your purpose is to remove bias then you will include more and more. For example I am not an expert on physics so until I investigate physics I have a physics bias or ignorance of physics. So as a result I know that limits my ability to look at reality from that model, but the interesting thing is it also frees me up of being stuck in that model as well.

[Danioover9000]

@Razard86

On 2023-10-15 at 9:29 PM, Razard86 said:

This man is a Dr. of Psychology and doesn't even understand how humans work. He said humans don't want jobs. What he doesn't seem to understand is that every human wants to create something. Sure nobody wants to get a job working for someone creating what they want if it doesn't align with what you want to do, but everyone would love to have a "job" that allowed them to create what they want and get paid for it. Now some would use the term career, or business when they describe doing what you love on your own terms and use the term job as something you do just to make ends meet. Sure you can do that, but technically speaking a business can still be classified as a job, and so can a career, depends on how you want to use the term.

As a kid you played, play is creation, play is self-expression. This man with all of his academic learning doesn't know the truth of who he is, and thus will have an incomplete understanding of what is really going on. You can watch the video here.

This is just an example of the limitations of scholastic knowledge, eventually you will have to leave the confines of those limitations to increase your own understanding. 

Also notice how he uses an economic model and tries to force that model on relationships. He said relationships are the medium through which value is extracted. Sure you can use that model but then you would have to define value. In his model the limitations would be based on what is good for my survival. But this model fails to uphold in say a parent-child relationship, because initially the child gets all the value based on his model. 

He is right on this point though..."Most people don't want a relationship they want what a relationship can give them." But I would turn that around on him and say....who taught them that? The current adults are a reflection of their parents and what they taught them. Every generation is a reflection of the prior generation. So if you think the current generation is more selfish than you, ask yourself why did you raise them to be selfish? 

What he doesn't realize is relationships are not on the decline because their needs are being met elsewhere, relationships are on the decline because humans have to be RAISED and TAUGHT HOW TO SOCIALIZE!!! We do not do a satisfactory job on raising children on how to socialize because we focus on two things to our detriment. MONEY and ENTERTAINMENT! We also do not customize our education system to help each child reach their true creative potential. We have turned the school systems into some factory that just churns out robots. We do not emphasize critical thinking in the way we create our tests or in the way we teach. Anyway that's a whole different topic.

Basically in short we do not emphasize self-honesty, acceptance of differences, selflessness, we push this onto the churches and religions not realizing that the school system is the biggest proponent outside of parents in what value systems the children grow up with. Religion has lost its hold on creating and promoting cooperative value systems so what gets replaced are values in favor of competition over cooperation. When ever you ask the question....how did we get here? The answer is EASY....the parents.....and the school system!!! I'm not blaming them as devils, I am saying they are the foundation of society!!! The foundation of society is not the government, the foundation is the parents and the school system and to a lesser degree the churches.

   Due to complex differences in developmental factors like stages of development, cognitive biases and moral development, personality types/traits, 9 stages of ego development, shadow aspects and shadow work, Integral Theory and other lines of development socially and personally, ideological beliefs indoctrinated by culture, family upbringing, community, schooling, tv programs, radio, news papers, social media, peer pressure and group conformity, and many more points of manufactured consent that manipulates how you think and feel, how you make sense of the world, your self image, self biases and preferences.

   You can argue and give an opinion about this psychologist, but keep in mind you'll over simplify his takes from just one video. I also notice how you're conflating spirituality with psychology, maybe make the distinction between the two first before evaluating the rightness or wrongness off this psychologist.

[Nightshenroth]

12 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Razard86

   Due to complex differences in developmental factors like stages of development, cognitive biases and moral development, personality types/traits, 9 stages of ego development, shadow aspects and shadow work, Integral Theory and other lines of development socially and personally, ideological beliefs indoctrinated by culture, family upbringing, community, schooling, tv programs, radio, news papers, social media, peer pressure and group conformity, and many more points of manufactured consent that manipulates how you think and feel, how you make sense of the world, your self image, self biases and preferences.

   You can argue and give an opinion about this psychologist, but keep in mind you'll over simplify his takes from just one video. I also notice how you're conflating spirituality with psychology, maybe make the distinction between the two first before evaluating the rightness or wrongness off this psychologist.

Well said @Danioover9000.

Wanted to add that OP @Razard86 shouldn't really judge someone for having a different perspective on relationships or "jobs" because no one perspective is right. I watched his video. I saw his perspective. I saw yours. And they are both valid. Try and ask yourself: why are you trying to put spirituality on a pedestal and discard psychology based on one man's opinion on some theme. I think that is a good question that leads to growth.

As @Danioover9000 mentioned, the complexity of the topic makes any discussion about it simplistic and takes away information.

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, Nightshenroth said:

Well said @Danioover9000.

Wanted to add that OP @Razard86 shouldn't really judge someone for having a different perspective on relationships or "jobs" because no one perspective is right. I watched his video. I saw his perspective. I saw yours. And they are both valid. Try and ask yourself: why are you trying to put spirituality on a pedestal and discard psychology based on one man's opinion on some theme. I think that is a good question that leads to growth.

As @Danioover9000 mentioned, the complexity of the topic makes any discussion about it simplistic and takes away information.

Psychology IS Spirituality. You are the only one making that distinction. Also I never said he was wrong. Everyone is right from there point of view, but there are levels to truth within the realm of the relative.

When you take a test you can get a 60. A 60 is an F but it is 60% true. The key to knowledge is to get as much of that % as you can. The problem is...there are an infinite number of ways to look at something and as a human you are limited by language in your ability to communicate that understanding, you are limited to the comprehension ability and mood, and assumptions of the person you are communicating too, you are limited to your human perspective and you are limited by any unconscious biases you have as well.

Also with that said.....you are not going to beat the argument that the Republican Party elected a candidate for President who told citizens to inject themselves with BLEACH to combat the corona virus. Good luck beating that example....that was the greatest symbol of America's ignorance and stupidity. I wasn't even surprised Trump said that, I was surprised everyone in that room played it off like it wasn't a problem. America needs to take a page out of England's book and institute this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_motions_in_the_United_Kingdom#:~:text=A no-confidence vote was,successful motions are even rarer.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Razard86

[UnbornTao]

17 hours ago, Razard86 said:

So as a result I know that limits my ability to look at reality from that model, but the interesting thing is it also frees me up of being stuck in that model as well.

Yes. In addition to that, regardless of knowledge, there's the possibility of direct consciousness of reality.

[Danioover9000]

@Razard86

42 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Psychology IS Spirituality. You are the only one making that distinction. Also I never said he was wrong. Everyone is right from there point of view, but there are levels to truth within the realm of the relative.

When you take a test you can get a 60. A 60 is an F but it is 60% true. The key to knowledge is to get as much of that % as you can. The problem is...there are an infinite number of ways to look at something and as a human you are limited by language in your ability to communicate that understanding, you are limited to the comprehension ability and mood, and assumptions of the person you are communicating too, you are limited to your human perspective and you are limited by any unconscious biases you have as well.

Also with that said.....you are not going to beat the argument that the Republican Party elected a candidate for President who told citizens to inject themselves with BLEACH to combat the corona virus. Good luck beating that example....that was the greatest symbol of America's ignorance and stupidity. I wasn't even surprised Trump said that, I was surprised everyone in that room played it off like it wasn't a problem. America needs to take a page out of England's book and institute this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_motions_in_the_United_Kingdom#:~:text=A no-confidence vote was,successful motions are even rarer.

   Okay I'll bit the bullet here. I don't want to argue in bad faith and make some uncharitable takes of your takes, but I have to point out here you're just flat out wrong. There are good reasons why we need distinctions between psychology and spirituality in the first place, and why we need to define the two fields separately first before we try to synthesize the two fields like what you're doing here. There are good reasons why in the relative levels we make these distinctions in the first place.

   True, I agree we have a bias and preference towards getting the closest percentage to success as we can, because of neoliberalism/capitalism ideology as part of our meta programming, then mathematics, as well as science and other hard and soft sciences, IT computing and technologies, and engineering is valued in the west because there was material success and benefit gained.

   What does Trump have to do with your argument and your post about spirituality and psychology? Also you're slipping in hidden assumptions that Americans are so ignorant to elect Trump because he suggested taking bleach for Covid. First of all, that bleach post was later in his presidency, not during his time in campaigning and rising from the primaries and election. Second, you hyper focus in Donald Trump's troll post as if that's why all of the right wing, the traditionalists, the conservatives, the republicans, the patriots, the nationalists elected him for. NO! There are good reasons why the right wing and even the centrists elected him president, which is strongly related to president Obama's and the left wing's mistakes and failure to deliver some promises to the American people, and as a result most felt disenfranchised by the left wing and Obama administration then, which allowed Trump to begin his political marketing campaign, and get this, on suggestion by BILL CLINTON! YES! You heard right, Bill Clinton himself, in conversation with Trump, threw that suggestion to Trump in passing, not realizing that he might've taken that suggestion seriously. And due to the charm and charisma that Donald Trump can do, plus the growing resentment and frustration of the failures of the left wing then, allowed Donald Trump that level of success.