Palestine/Israel war - What can we do to stop this genocide?

[lina]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Because Netanyahu does not sit around planning to target civilians in Gaza with attacks. If you think he does that, you're being biased.

Netanyahu could have killed 10,000 civilians in Gaza a month ago if that was his agenda.

@Leo Gura 

Israel has one of the most advanced miliary equipment yet they end up targeting mostly civilians. That has been a pattern for a very long time and it's documented by the Amnesty https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/press-release/2021/05/israelopt-pattern-of-israeli-attacks-on-residential-homes-in-gaza-must-be-investigated-as-war-crimes/

They say Hamas is hiding between residential areas but they're all cramped in an open air prison, they don't have the privilege to have an actual army, there's even another argument to be made that Israel uses human shields as well. 

Also, there is no Hamas in the Westbank, yet IDF has been killing a lot of Palestinians there and they keep taking more land with the help of ARMED settlers. That's actual terrorism. 

Israel stopped all peace negotiations for a long time and the Israeli finance minister doesn't even recognize Palestinian people, how could peace be reached with such leadership? 
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/21/middleeast/israel-smotrich-palestinians-intl/index.html?fbclid=IwAR2WKzebzm6jshTCfpFGx1-4ejNxzgEznJQLZFdIlYmKuntJvGmNzwskBxc

Also, if they truly want to get rid of Hamas with minimum civilian death, they would find a way to create a temporary corridor for civilians INSIDE Israel, so even without knowing the history or the justification of each side of the conflict, both are extremists entities fighting each other, but with a massive power imbalance. 

 

[lina]

@Leo Gura Ex-foreign minister officially wants Egypt to take in the Palestinians, make them refugees for life, and end their hope a Palestinian state. How could genuine negotiations or peace deals ever happen this way? 

 

[Breakingthewall]

9 minutes ago, lina said:

Also, there is no Hamas in the Westbank, yet IDF has been killing a lot of Palestinians there and they keep taking more land with the help of ARMED settlers. That's actual terrorism. 

From what I have read, all the raids in westbank were in response to attacks from the Arab side. More Arabs always die because their strength is smaller, but they always initiate the attacks. In fact, in 2022 there were many more deaths in westbank than in Gaza

Edited October 14, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[lina]

@Breakingthewall that's the Westbank. Israel has no business being there to begin with, and there is no Hamas or terrorism, From the Palestinians point of view they're just trying to resist this occupation and stop their homes from getting demolished. 

Edited October 14, 2023 by lina

[Breakingthewall]

5 minutes ago, lina said:

@Breakingthewall that's the Westbank. Israel has no business being there to begin with, and there is no Hamas or guns, so attack by rocks? From the Palestinians point of view they're just trying to resist this occupation and stop their homes from getting demolished. 

In the West Bank in 2022 there were 200 deaths, 29 Israelis. It began with several deadly attacks carried out by Palestinians, after which an operation called "breaking the wave" began, which consisted of a series of raids, almost always at night, to arrest alleged terrorists. These raids met resistance and hence the deaths. demolitions are punishment operations for attacks

[Breakingthewall]

Anyway, everything about the Jews is extremely biblical. rave of infinite freedom, incredible.

Now there are women living an unimaginable hell of multiple rapes and torture at the hands of Hamas. maximum level, worse than being crucified. Let's think in them deeply. 

[lina]

17 hours ago, Lila9 said:

@Lila9 Unlike Hamas, which brutally kills innocent Israelis, committing acts such as violent assaults on Israeli women, beheading babies, burning people alive, shooting unarmed individuals without any means to defend themselves, and cutting the belly of a pregnant Israeli woman. These are just a few examples of their brutality.

 

I would stay vigilant to not believe in everything the media is sharing right now. Until today Israel hasn't even confirmed the incident of the 40 killed babies. Ben Shapiro got caught sharing an A.I generated image  https://twitter.com/jacksonhinklle/status/1712585253456400856/photo/1 , that's a classic example of atrocity propaganda. 

Edited October 14, 2023 by lina

[Nivsch]

@lina I'm sorry for what you are feeling and I think that as long as hamas control gaza, the civilians there will keep suffering from hamas directly and from the consequences of his actions.

I hope that after hamas will be eliminated during the next few months, gaza civilians will get another leadership which is relatively moderate like the palestinian authority in the west bank or maybe even better the egyptian leadership, or a combination of both.

Edited October 14, 2023 by Nivsch

[lina]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Even if 60% have some sympathies for Hamas does not make them equivalent to Hamas. Similiar to how everyone in Nazi Germany was part of the Nazi party, but not the same as the active Nazi core.

You have to carefully distinguish between those who are too far gone, too radicalized, and those who are moderates and can be deradicalized.

What needs to be eliminated is those who only want violence as a solution and those who are suicidal. Those who would plan terrorist attacks.

@Leo GuraThe way I see it is there is a big difference between Nazis and Hamas, Hamas sees itself as a resistance movement who is trying to jihad against occupiers. Also, Hamas is not equal to ISIS, ISIS was far more violent and was trying to create a global Islamic Caliphate and invade other countries, not resist against occupation. 

[lina]

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Edited October 14, 2023 by lina

[ExplorerMystic]

@linaYour concerns are valid . The only thing I (this character) found on this path is to ask or pray to one Unitarian force for guidance. There must be something behind the curtain they we don't see & may not be able to see in future as this form is temporary . One thing i learned that love & compassion are one of hardest path to follow. You can preach this as much as you can ; but when it come to practicing it in real world . Everyone will fall short. 

 

 

[lina]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The only hope now is for the international community to help Palestinians elect nonviolent leadership.

I agree with this, but how could this be achieved with Israel's nonstop land grab and their interest of evacuating Palestinians to Egypt? 

[lina]

@Nivsch @Leo Gura I understand why Palestinians need to get rid of Hamas, however the main question remains is will getting rid of Hamas solve the conflict? Hamas was only created in 1987, before that Palestinian leadership was secular, yet Israel kept violating the international laws took more lands, created massacres and the Nakba of millions of Palestinian refugees who are are still waiting to return home one day. 

[lina]

@ExplorerMystic Thank you for sharing this I really respect Gabor Mate :)) 

[zazen]

Interesting take on a possible solution

But does the rhetoric match the reasoning. 

[Truth Seekah]

 

[Socrates]

@Leo Gura Great catch-22, just like the blacks. Treat them badly, create generational trauma, and have them live in awful conditions, but when they fight back you say LOOK they aren't developed enough!!! Of course!!!!! I'd argue attacking someone's basic needs is the greatest form of violence since that guarantees their spiral development will be delayed. I shall coin this approach as "spiral dynamicism" AKA being discriminatory based on spiral development.
 

[Breakingthewall]

7 minutes ago, Socrates said:

@Leo Gura Great catch-22, just like the blacks. Treat them badly, create generational trauma, and have them live in awful conditions, but when they fight back you say LOOK they aren't developed enough!!! Of course!!!!! I'd argue attacking someone's basic needs is the greatest form of violence since that guarantees their spiral development will be delayed. I shall coin this approach as "spiral dynamicism" AKA being discriminatory based on spiral development.
 

. The Jews have enormous patience. The Palestinians have had the intention of exterminating them since 1920. They have been attacked with that intention by alliances of several countries. The Palestinians refuse to live together and persist in hatred, since they are close to a stronger civilization and do not want to be absorbed by it or live with it. Under any circumstances they would be exterminated, but this is not possible today, so the Jews must live with a neighbor who wishes their death and raises their children in hatred. Not confortable 

Imagine that Native Americans raise their children in hatred and terrorism. America belongs to them, right?

Edited October 14, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Lila9]

32 minutes ago, lina said:

I would be stay vigilant to not believe in everything the media is sharing right now. Until today Israel hasn't even confirmed the incident of the 40 killed babies. Ben Shapiro got caught sharing an A.I generated image  https://twitter.com/jacksonhinklle/status/1712585253456400856/photo/1 , that's a classic example of atrocity propaganda. 

This is what you are actually doing right now: believing everything that the media says. And it's funny that you base your beliefs on an AI detector generated by a pro-Palestinian biased account. This website, claiming that the burned baby picture is AI-generated, seems more fake than the burned baby picture, which unfortunately appears to be real—too real. It seems that they are trying to cover and deny Hamas' cruelty because it portrays them as savages, and they don't want to look like savages in front of Westerners, as the savages that they truly are. They want to appear as victims so that naive Westerners will support them.

This is not the only picture of a burned baby, unfortunately, there are many of them, and not only babies.

You don't even understand the level of cruelty that Hamas is capable of. You think that they are innocent fighters for freedom, and you believe that your support of Palestinians and Hamas means something to them. However, as long as you are a Western woman, a non-Muslim woman without radical Islamic beliefs, you better stay as far away from them as possible. They don't care about your peaceful ideas, you are a sinner to them who deserves death and torture.

They are Islamic radicals who would harm anyone who doesn't share their beliefs. They don't care about life, freedom, humanity, or rights, they care about their ideology and living a radical Muslim lifestyle while having control over Al-Aqsa, even if it means killing innocent Jews and sacrificing innocent Palestinians along the way.

What would you have done if these kinds of radicals were attacking you and your family? Would you still support them and see them as victims? You keep being naive because you cannot imagine living near such bloodthirsty savages.

Nothing can justify their cruel actions, no matter how much land Israel occupies. What Hamas did to innocent Israeli people is a new level of devilry, especially after Israel made numerous attempts to achieve peace with Palestinians and Hamas.

Israel is the civilized country that made efforts to pursue peace, but unfortunately, those attempts were consistently rejected by Palestine and Hamas. If they were genuinely interested in peace, there could have been a resolution, and this conflict might not have persisted.

[zazen]

14 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

. The Jews have enormous patience. The Palestinians have had the intention of exterminating them since 1920. They have been attacked with that intention by alliances of several countries. The Palestinians refuse to live together and persist in hatred, since they are close to a stronger civilization and do not want to be absorbed by it or live with it. Under any circumstances they would be exterminated, but this is not possible today, so the Jews must live with a neighbor who wishes their death and raises their children in hatred. Not confortable

From your posts it seem's you have an axe to grind with them and Muslims in general. I know Palestinians and Israelis both over there living peacefully side by side. A lot of them are sick of fighting and being propagandised by vested interests in perpetuating their misery. 

See this video for a different perspective to your own.

And this video to soften the notion of a West being the best bias.

''Yet there is another side to this tale of debasement and humiliation. By the end of the 20th century Bernard Lewis, among the most eminent historians of the Middle East, a lifelong student of Jews and Islam and himself a Jew, reflected on the 14 centuries of Jewish life under Islamic rule since Muhammad. He concluded that the situation of Jews living under Islamic rulers ‘was never as bad as in Christendom at its worst’, even if it was never ‘as good as in Christendom at its best’. Lewis continued: ‘There is nothing in Islamic history to parallel the Spanish expulsion and Inquisition, the Russian pogroms, or the Nazi Holocaust.''

 

Edited October 14, 2023 by zazen