Palestine/Israel war - What can we do to stop this genocide?

[Raze]

51 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Israel is not fighting against Palestinians and innocent civilians, it's fighting against the terrorists who lead these innocent people, namely Hamas.

These terrorists receive a significant amount of money to improve the lives of the Palestinians, but they use it for weapons, targeting innocent Israeli/Jewish people.

Hamas deliberately locates themselves and their weapons in civilian homes, schools, and hospitals in Gaza so if Israel attacking Hamas, it will harm innocent people on the way.

They don't care about Palestinians. Instead, they cynically exploit their deaths to receive support and mercy from the West, and it really works.

Israel ensures it informs citizens before attacking the Hamas basements in the citizens' buildings, providing them with time to escape and save their lives. Israel is not perfect, but it does what it can to avoid harming innocent people.

Unlike Hamas, which brutally kills innocent Israelis, committing acts such as violent assaults on Israeli women, beheading babies, burning people alive, shooting unarmed individuals without any means to defend themselves, and cutting the belly of a pregnant Israeli woman. These are just a few examples of their brutality.

Some argue that they are more brutal than ISIS. I have never heard of the Israeli people or army committing such cruel acts against Palestinians. Nothing can justify what Hamas has done to Israeli people.

Israel does not want to kill or harm Palestinians, it simply aims to defend itself.

Hamas does want to harm Israeli innocent people, and it does it deliberately and believes that there is value and heroism in doing that, in killing innocent Israeli population.

From Hamas's POV, it's very lucrative to be a terrorist, especially against Israel.

If you are a terrorist and you're caught alive by Israelis, you will be imprisoned, but you will live like a king in the prison, literally like a king because they receive such good conditions. You even have the opportunity to get an education.

If you are a terrorist and you die, by Islamic belief, you will enjoy intimacy with 72 virgins and will be defined as a "Shaheed", you will be remembered as a hero, and your family will receive lots of respect.

Now Israel has informed the residents of North Gaza to evacuate to the south of Gaza because Hamas has their basements in the north. Israel wants to destroy the leadership of Hamas because it's fed up with its brutality. This demonstrates that Israel's primary objective is to target terrorists, not innocent Palestinians.

On the other hand, Hamas told the residents of North Gaza to stay because Hamas wants them to die as a result of Israel attacking North Gaza, as their deaths serve Hamas by bringing more support to Palestine, which means more money for Hamas to carry out their actions.

The enemy of Palestinians is not Israel but Hamas and radical Islam, first and foremost.

I've watched a video about Palestinians cursing Hamas for what they have done to them.

The interest should be to eliminate terrorists like Hamas and Hezbollah and not modern and integrated countries like Israel.

Israel is the most democratic, conscious, developed, and sane country in the Middle East.

It has such integrity that it hospitalizes terrorists who killed Israeli people in excellent hospitals in Israel, which is insane. I don't know about other countries that do the same to people who are trying to destroy it.

The reality in Israel is even scarier than the reality in Gaza because, as an Israeli, you don't know when the next attack from Hamas is coming. You can be at the beach, at home sleeping, at a party with friends, and a terrorist can try to kill you by surprise at any moment, or by a rocket randomly and unexpectedly launched at your home. Your life and the lives of your loved ones are too fragile. No matter what you do or where you go, you always have to carry in your mind the chance that you and your family/friends will get hurt or die in a terror attack, at the hands of someone who deliberately wants to kill you and will take great pride in it. You have to be super alert.

If you are a Palestinian in Gaza, at least you get the chance to be informed that in an hour, your home will be bombed because there is a Hamas basement on the roof of the building you are living in, so you have the opportunity to escape and save your life.

The Israeli people don't have this privilege.

Yes, some radicals in Israel wants to occupy more land, but it doesn't justify brutally killing them by Hamas.

Most of Israeli citizens don't want to occupy more land.

Even if they wanted, that's fair in my opinion.

Jewish people have only one country while Muslims have more than 50 countries.

More than 50 countries.

But ironically, Muslims are so conflicted between eachother. No Muslim country wants Palestinians in their territory. 

 

 

 

 

You are incredibly biased and uninformed 

1) Israel being internally the most “developed” means little when looking at its governments foreign policy actions. Israel runs an apartheid as said by almost all major human rights organizations and the former head of mossad, Israel regularly carries out foreign assassinations, Israel goes to war almost every other year, compare how many countries Israel has attacked in the past decades to how many say Iran has attacked.

2) Israel no longer warns with knock bombs, a IDF spokesperson said specifically currently they are aiming for as much damage as possible 

3) its absurd to say the situation in Israel is worse than in Gaza because Palestine has “warnings”, Gaza  has no water, food, or electricity, Israel is killing thousands upon thousands of civilians, that is far beyond the damage that Israel has faced from Hamas’s attack.

4) If the enemy of Palestine is Hamas, it is also Israel, Netanyahu supported Hamas to become the leaders of Gaza because he wanted to hurt the left wing Palestinian freedom cause. The Israeli government is responsible for Hamas being in power in the first place. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Raze

[PurpleTree]

What about women getting oppressed and tortured in iran/saudi

green: oh well don‘t bring that up 

what about terror attacks on civilians in europe: 

green: oh well they supported somebody, they basically deserved it

what about terror attacks on civilians in israel:

apologists: oh well they‘re oppressors, palestinians were basically forced to do it

 

you guys find an excuse for everything, it‘s great honestly

[Raze]

5 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Victim mentality is deep in you 

You don’t seem to get what I’m saying is common knowledge inside the government. Heads of state including in the USA have openly acknowledged their actions have caused increases in terorrism.

[Raze]

5 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

What about women getting oppressed and tortured in iran/saudi

green: oh well don‘t bring that up 

what about terror attacks on civilians in europe: 

green: oh well they supported somebody, they basically deserved it

what about terror attacks on civilians in israel:

apologists: oh well they‘re oppressors, palestinians were basically forced to do it

 

you guys find an excuse for everything, it‘s great honestly

It’s not an excuse to not fall for military industrial complex propaganda to start wars

For example, before the war in Afghanistan there was a huge campaign in western media about how the taliban mistreats women as a reason we must invade. Well we invaded and we “helped” by killing thousands of women, losing to the taliban who went back to treating women the same as before, then putting millions of women at risk of starvation by sanctioning them. Here’s what the western governments didn’t mention, when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan decades earlier, they increased womens rights, these same western governments funded the afghan rebels to kill the soviets and make them leave, many of those rebels formed the taliban.

Western countries commit mass atrocities - angry foreigners inflict a fraction of it back at them - it is used to justify further mass atrocities repeating the cycle, yet no one can point it out because you get accused of victim blaming and supporting terrorists, by the same government that literally admits to funding multiple terrorist organizations.

the taliban were originally supported by the USA. Hamas was originally supported by Israel. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Raze

[PurpleTree]

2 minutes ago, Raze said:

Western countries commit mass atrocities -

Most don’t. Which atrocities are committed by norway, sweden, germany, portugal, switzerland, austria, new zealand, finland, spain etc etc etc these days?

the afghanistan thing was because then us invoked nato article number 5

[Jacob Morres]

@Buck Edwards same 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Jacob Morres

[Inliytened1]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@lina Well, you have to ask yourself, How else can Hamas be eliminated? Because it certainly cannot be allowed to stay in power.

The unfortunate reality is that eliminating Hamas will involve a lot of collateral damage. Hamas is a cancer within the Palestinian population. Eliminating a cancer is very difficult and comes with serious side-effects.

I wish that wasn't the case, but that's the situation. Peace negotiations can resume once Hamas is eliminated and Palestinians have sane leadership.

The monster will just grow a new head.  It can be eradicated for now but will always return.  The battle will never end.

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, Raze said:

You are incredibly biased and uninformed 

1) Israel being internally the most “developed” means little when looking at its governments foreign policy actions. Israel runs an apartheid as said by almost all major human rights organizations and the former head of mossad, Israel regularly carries out foreign assassinations, Israel goes to war almost every other year, compare how many countries Israel has attacked in the past decades to how many say Iran has attacked.

2) Israel no longer warns with knock bombs, a IDF spokesperson said specifically currently they are aiming for as much damage as possible 

3) its absurd to say the situation in Israel is worse than in Gaza because Palestine has “warnings”, Gaza  has no water, food, or electricity, Israel is killing thousands upon thousands of civilians, that is far beyond the damage that Israel has faced from Hamas’s attack.

4) If the enemy of Palestine is Hamas, it is also Israel, Netanyahu supported Hamas to become the leaders of Gaza because he wanted to hurt the left wing Palestinian freedom cause. The Israeli government is responsible for Hamas being in power in the first place. 

Israel did not strike first- Hamas did - because it wants power and land.  Desperate actions call for desperate measures. 

[Leo Gura]

39 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

The monster will just grow a new head.

Not necessarily. Terrorist groups have been eliminated in the past. Or at least take them out of mainstream power.

It's not necessary to eliminate at 100%, just enough that they are not officially in charge of the Palestinian majority.

Edited October 14, 2023 by Leo Gura

[JTL]

@Leo Gura

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Because Netanyahu does not sit around planning to target civilians in Gaza with attacks. If you think he does that, you're being biased.

Netanyahu could have killed 10,000 civilians in Gaza a month ago if that was his agenda.

How can you know Netanyahu's true intention? I dont disagree with you, but I wondring how you can be sure of his intention or how it is being biased beliving so? I have actually feared that the israelis would do their own genocide on the palestinians after the hamas terror, like for real! It have bothered me for days, been sad for humanities sake seen all the insane bloodthirsty people on twitter, I am not on twitter because I vaule my sanity, but I see stuff from twitter on reddit, MPs and israelis calling for genocide. I have never bought the crap about israel or idf being any more moral than anyone else.    

Edited October 14, 2023 by JTL

[Leo Gura]

18 minutes ago, JTL said:

How can you know Netanyahu's true intention? I dont disagree with you, but I wondring how you can be sure of his intention or how it is being biased beliving so?

Easily.

You are just not thinking staight if you equate Netanyahu with ISIS. They are at totally different levels of development.

Of course that doesn't make Netanyahu an angel, but he's not a bloodthirsty radical. If you can't see this difference then you have no business doing politics. Politics is all about distinguishing degrees of bad, and choosing the lesser of two bads.

Edited October 14, 2023 by Leo Gura

[JTL]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Easily.

You are just not thinking staight

hard to think when I am afraid for palestinian lives. how do you view the blockade of food and water by israel, thats is collective punishment, people will starve to death ??

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, JTL said:

how do you view the blockade of food and water by israel, thats is collective punishment

Why should Israelis supply their enemies? This is an unreasonable expectation.

Having radical leadership comes with serious consequences. When the Allies were fighting the Nazis, a lot of civilians were killed and displaced. That's the consequence of electing Nazis as your leaders. Even though most Germans didn't vote for Nazis. But they all paid the price.

Yes, war is ugly, which is why it's imperative to support leadership who don't want to lead you into war. Once the war starts it's too late.

Edited October 14, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Hardkill]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Why should Israelis supply their enemies? This is an unreasonable expectation.

Having radical leadership comes with serious consequences. When the Allies were fighting the Nazis, a lot of civilians were killed and displaced. That's the consequence of electing Nazis as your leaders. Even though most Germans didn't vote for Nazis. But they all paid the price.

Yes, war is ugly, which is why it's imperative to support leadership who don't want to lead you into war. Once the war starts it's too late.

But the Palestinians will never be able to elect or choose a good leader in the long-run because like you said their society is just too primitive and there is no feasible way for their society to develop within the foreseeable future. So, aren't they forever doomed to never learning from their mistakes? 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Hardkill

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

But the Palestinians will never be able to elect or choose a good leader in the long-run

That's not a given. They can elect better leaders who reject violence.

Quote

So, what hope is there that they will ever learn from their mistakes?

They really only have two options: embrace nonviolence or be massacred by the Zionists.

When you have no strong military and no infrastructure you cannot embrace a policy of violence because that must end in massacre.

A crippled person should not enter a boxing ring. That's just the reality of conflict. Your strategy has to fit your capabilities.

Edited October 14, 2023 by Leo Gura

[JTL]

@Leo Gura Is there any rational reason for why the U.S supports israel so passionately almost religiously as they do, acannot see any postive reasons  for the U.S in the long term as superpower being so biased towards israel. 

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, JTL said:

@Leo Gura Is there any rational reason for why the U.S supports israel so passionately almost religiously as they do, acannot see any postive reasons  for the U.S in the long term as superpower being so biased towards israel. 

The reason is very simple: because Israel is more developed than their neighbors, and the US supports neoliberal values rather than theocratic Islamic values.

The US is interested in doing business, not Jihad. So the US will side with those who prefer business over endless Jihad.

Edited October 14, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Buck Edwards]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The reason is very simple: because Israel is more developed than their neighbors, and the US supports neoliberal values rather than theocratic Islamic values.

The US is interested in doing business, not Jihad. So the US will side with those who prefer business over endless Jihad.

Highly nuanced takes on this subject. Great job Leo. You're right on the money. 

There's some stupid talk of jews and zionist conspiracy. Finally a clean take! 

[Hardkill]

26 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's not a given. They can elect better leaders who reject violence.

26 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's not a given. They can elect better leaders who reject violence.

They really only have two options: embrace nonviolence or be massacred by the Zionists.

When you have no strong military and no infrastructure you cannot embrace a policy of violence because that must end in massacre.

If according to the fact that their geography is totally unable to provide the palestinians the resources it needs to have their society flourish economically like Saudi Arabia or Israel, they have been stuck in like stage Purple/Red or maybe Red/Blue, no other country in the world has ever been interested in wanting to help the Palestinians develop even to the level of stage Blue/Orange, how will enough of the Palestinians be able to let go of their beliefs in tribal warfare with anyone who is not them? 

Therefore, doesn't this all mean that the Palestinians are more than likely tragically doomed to becoming slaughtered until their entire ethnonational group becomes completely extinct because they will never be able to live in peace with anyone else outside of their ethnonational group?

Furthermore, even if all of the leaders of Hamas get killed, sometime after this war ends, there will be a group of new Palestinian terrorist leaders who will do everything they can to get their revenge for their innocent loved ones who have or will be killed in this war.

 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Hardkill

[Hardkill]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The reason is very simple: because Israel is more developed than their neighbors, and the US supports neoliberal values rather than theocratic Islamic values.

The US is interested in doing business, not Jihad. So the US will side with those who prefer business over endless Jihad.

It's also because many Christians in America believe in the idea according to the Book of Relevation in the New Testament of their Bible that the final battle of Armageddon will one day occur in Israel. 

"The Beast moves his headquarters into the land of Israel and assembles his armies there." "It is there that his destruction will come."

Edited October 14, 2023 by Hardkill