Understanding psychedelics and combatting self-delusion

[BFNK]

I've had a considerable amount of trips over the years, but not quite up to the level of 5-meo. 

Its difficult to decide whether to seek trying it out, since on some level psychedelics can be quite confusing. I am never certain if what I'm experiencing is true, or a result of tweaked brain chemistry. My very first trip on acid was unforgettable, and it as at that point when my interest into infinity/oneness was ignited.

However, could psychedelics be a self-fulfilling prophecy? From the very beginning, they are mystical and come with a huge amount of connotations. When everyone is saying a compound such as 5-meo could give you pure consciousness, or some existential experience, this creates a bias and already implies a certain thing could be happening. But if people had absolutely no understanding and knowledge in relation to the tools, then would they be describing the experience in the same way? 

At times, some trip reports almost sound like a script to me. Like I'm reading the same thing, but it's not really convincing, it sounds more like the author convinced themselves.

Let me be clear - I am not saying that none of this is possible, or even denying any of the reported experiences, but I am saying that some of these feel like self-deception more than anything else to me. 

What if the brain evolved to experience this thing, in a similar way that it evolved to experience pleasure? The human kind has consumed such tools maybe since forever, who knows? Could be 10,000 years, could be 150,000 years. Perhaps other species did the same but we evolved to really get the most out of it. 

This is a bleak outlook, and I much rather believe that infinity is real, but the issue is that I'm still on the belief level and haven't quite been able to experience an awakening where I have no doubt about it. 

This year, I've had a lot of harsh experiences. In one of them, I felt something which I could describe as a no-self sensation, but it was very muted and joyless. It was mechanical, as if reality is a collection of complications, endless layers which aren't really anything, and emotions themselves are mechanical and not real, at least not in the real sense that I feel them in my daily life. It felt more like the universe itself is an illusion, nothing "real" and is trying to be something "real" by creating all of these layers so that the bleak emptiness can be forgotten and abstracted away from. 

This felt very dark, and most of all - extremely lonely. I don't think it matches what other people describe. Meanwhile, I've felt euphoria on that absurd level, where a single touch to the skin feels orgasmic, and that's not it either - that's all in the realm of these human emotions. 

Whenever I've done higher doses, I usually end up feeling this mechanicalness in some shape, or form, but I am never sure if it is not simply nothing but a delusion. How could one ever be sure? If it's true, then it's bleak and hopeless more than it is infinite love, or I have experienced some part of myself - a delusion. Could it also be that this is how infinity is experienced on some level by a depressed brain? I've been depressed over the trips from this year, and they all felt emotionless on some level. As if I was doing raw exploration of the wonky dimensions. 

Edited October 10, 2023 by BFNK

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, BFNK said:

When everyone is saying a compound such as 5-meo could give you pure consciousness, or some existential experience, this creates a bias and already implies a certain thing could be happening. But if people had absolutely no understanding and knowledge in relation to the tools, then would they be describing the experience in the same way? 

If you actually do 5-MeO, you'll realize that this worry is pointless.

What you should really be worried about is that any conclusions you come to from your sober state are delusions.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Leo Gura

[BFNK]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

If you actually do 5-MeO, you'll realize that this worry is pointless.

What you should really be worried about is that any conclusions you come to from your sober state are delusions.

If I doubt sober conclusions, and also doubt trip-fueled conclusions, what am I left with? I would lose my mind, there would be no grounding whatsoever. 

Just want a meaningful and tangible understanding of how reality works. Knowing myself, however, I will eventually try 5meo - so long as it finds my way to me. The curiosity is insatiable. 

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, BFNK said:

I would lose my mind, there would be no grounding whatsoever. 

That's the point! That's how you find God.

Quote

Just want a meaningful and tangible understanding of how reality works.

5-MeO will show you. If you dare.

What you want is too much for a mere human mind to know. But it is possible if you dare to trasncend the human.

Reality is an Infinite Mind, forever dreaming. The rest is details.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Leo Gura

[BFNK]

Your conviction is infectious, I have to say, and I love that ever since it became a part of the youtube channel. I was put off many years ago when your stance on these ancient tools was negative. Then, over the years, you started making them a central part of your technique, and that made it clear that you want answers as a primary objective. 

This gives me a lot of confidence that I've simply not gotten there yet. Thanks for chipping in

(PS: I've lost my mind in the way you've described it over the interview with Kurt, and to be honest I don't dislike that, it is indeed a humbling experience. I suppose I need to lose it in another way - maybe 5meo is the key, acid and shrooms take me to the lobby at best)

Edited October 10, 2023 by BFNK

[Leo Gura]

@BFNK Keep in mind that it's not merely a function of 5-MeO, you must also properly jailbreak your mind through careful contemplation and a deep understanding of epistemic and metaphysical principles (which are covered in my videos).

For example, have you deconstructed materialist science? No? Then don't expect to understand reality well, even if you do psychedelics.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Leo Gura

[BFNK]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@BFNK Keep in mind that it's not merely a function of 5-MeO, you must also properly jailbreak your mind through careful contemplation and a deep understanding of epistemic and metaphysical principles (which are covered in my videos).

For example, have you deconstructed materialist science? No? Then don't expect to understand reality well, even if you do psychedelics.

I have, although I fear much of that is on a theoretical level for me. I've re-watched your interviews with Kurt multiple times by now (at least 50-60 hours) and keep getting new bits of information that I missed. Some of that already resonates with me on some level beyond the intellectual. It simply makes natural sense to me. This is of course after watching everything in your channel over the years. 

Other things are extremely challenging to deconstruct. The material world is difficult to get out of for sure and likely the biggest wall for me. 

One argument that just came to my mind at some point for me in the past, is that I've not actually seen a physical barrier anywhere in life. Physical world is more like a strong illusion i can't see through, rather than something I firmly believe in. If we zoom into the wall, we get to the atoms, to the sub-atomic, to the (??) strings, and at no point do we experience a physical barrier. I don't know if this makes any scientific sense at all, but I think that's neat. I can't prove physicality exists in that full scientific sense. How could I, where is the physical barrier anywhere?

I've tried to get into theoretical physics and many of the authors you quote, and also not just you but other people who try to contribute in some way. Honestly, it's fucking impressive how much you've read and it's difficult to keep up with it, even when it is presented in these videos (eloquently expressed all the way, as a bonus). Even if we drop infinity entirely, there is just so much to unpack. 

I can clearly see how my emotional baggage actually blocks breakthroughs on psychedelics, by the way, so I can attest to how true this warning is. There is some stuff I've held for 15 years, which resurface during trips. I actually have to sort of deal with them each time to be able to move on with the trip, but it never sticks long-term. Yet, it's so interesting to see this process in action, in real time, and to understand how you cannot cheat out of personal growth. It's just not possible. 

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by BFNK

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, BFNK said:

where is the physical barrier anywhere?

What does "physical" even mean?

It's pure illusion.

[Yimpa]

7 hours ago, BFNK said:

Other things are extremely challenging to deconstruct. The material world is difficult to get out of for sure and likely the biggest wall for me. 

It is challenging because you have a fixed idea of how reality is. Letting go of your current ideas requires being less selfish. What you are being selfish about is needing reality to be a certain way. Or, in other words, you needing yourself to be a particular way, which excludes all other possibilities.