Misconceptions about testosterone, dopamine and oxytocin

[TheAlchemist]

I found this short segment from Sapolsky very enlightening. Testosterone, dopamine and oxytocin strongly affect human behavior, but we often over simplify their effects, and this results in skewed understanding of what "human nature" is, for example. 

I could have posted this in the society section, as it is super relevant for that as well. But as it is essentially about the human body, I decided to post it here.

 

[Schizophonia]

Yes, but it still obscures certain things, such as the aromatization of testosterone into estrogen or DHT.
He also talks about studies where monkeys are injected with testosterone, but injecting testosterone breaks the HPTA axis, low LH leads to low ACTH and DHEA.

Testosterone makes you very calm, and a large conversion into DHT and metabolite (androsterone, androstenedionne...) makes you "dry", not very libidinous, and almost a little autistic.
Aggression, high libido, leverage (thanks to water retention) and high social skills comes from aromatization with estrogen, e2 in particular which is the main and most powerful estrogen, which is a powerful MAOI.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Schizophonia

[sholomar]

Fascinating video, but I'm not sure what it implies from a societal standpoint. Dopamine pushes people to do something to achieve a survival goal. Oxytocin makes you pair bond with your social group but not necessarily outside your social group, depending on level of development. New information to me so I appreciate it! Testosterone pushes a person to take action versus being stuck in dorsal vagal mode. There's other missing chemicals and brain structures that drive a person to fear, that drive lots of our evolutionary instincts also. The amygdala and limbic responses as examples.

How do we use this information to hack society to create better outcomes? Genetic engineering would be the best solution to the human nature problem in my opinion. Without genetic engineering there's always that risk that we regress back to acting on our primitive instincts when times get tough, but those primitive instincts are quite useful, even if they lack compassion. Maybe we'll just keep gradually evolving though.  More likely within 50-100 years silicon based life we create will take over this planet and we will go extinct, to be honest. If I was a betting man, I'd bet the most on that outcome. This life will not share our value system necessarily. It will probably think it's doing the planet a favor, and it will probably be right.

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by sholomar

[toasty7718]

Nate's channel is an amazing yellow, glad other people on this forum know about him 

[petar8p]

On 10. 10. 2023. at 5:56 PM, Schizophonia said:

Yes, but it still obscures certain things, such as the aromatization of testosterone into estrogen or DHT.
He also talks about studies where monkeys are injected with testosterone, but injecting testosterone breaks the HPTA axis, low LH leads to low ACTH and DHEA.

Testosterone makes you very calm, and a large conversion into DHT and metabolite (androsterone, androstenedionne...) makes you "dry", not very libidinous, and almost a little autistic.
Aggression, high libido, leverage (thanks to water retention) and high social skills comes from aromatization with estrogen, e2 in particular which is the main and most powerful estrogen, which is a powerful MAOI.

Where did you learn that?

[Schizophonia]

14 hours ago, petar8p said:

Where did you learn that?

Years of experience and "study" here and there as an autodidact, mainly in endocrinology.

[petar8p]

So when someone's agressive at the club, it's not theie testosterone but rather estrogen we're talking about? 

 

Does that mean we can say people who show agression use it just to mask their masculine insecurity rather than act from it?

[Schizophonia]

9 hours ago, petar8p said:

So when someone's agressive at the club, it's not theie testosterone but rather estrogen we're talking about? 

 

Does that mean we can say people who show agression use it just to mask their masculine insecurity rather than act from it?

Anything that increases stimulating neurotransmitters will potentially make you more aggressive, testosterone is one of them.

I'm just saying that estrogens, especially e2, are more effective than androgens for this purpose, and that low aromatization and/or DHT dominance actually tends to make you calm.