Should we try to help people see the truth or is that for them to discover?

[Wizardking]

A lot of people are suffering because of trauma that they don't want to face and that they maybe even deny. They might even deny that they are suffering. For example, a person who doesn't love/value/respect themselves goes into relationship after relationship that ends with them getting mistreated and finally dumped. They might be too caught up in their pride to take responsibility and instead just blame the other part which then causes the cycle to continue. If I could tell this person that they subconsciously don't think they deserve love because of perhaps something that happened to them in their childhood, would that be the right thing to do? 

Ignorance is bliss and in their ignorance they think they are experiencing bliss, at least most of the time. But if they were to heal themselves and develop better mindsets towards life they would experience true bliss. Sure the journey there will be painful but in the end they will be thankful that they did it. 

In therapy a lot of it's about making the patient realise these things for themselves, but with my personal experience in therapy I needed to hear the hard truth. I did 3 years where the therapist mostly just listened but when I switched to a therapist that actually told me what they thought, that's when I really started improving. 

I feel so bad for these people because some of them go their entires lives without realising this and fixing it. And most of the people who do realise these things probably don't start to do so properly until they have a mid life crisis or when they reach retirement and realise that life is about enjoying it, not reaching an end destination. I kinda interpret the saying "if you want to change the world change yourself" as also saying "you can only change people by inspiring them with your own change" but I find this way kind of discouraging because of how much longer that takes and how much time is then wasted on the unnecessary suffering that they might have to go through to realise it for themselves. Maybe it would be seen as creepy to get a psychoanalysis/advice from someone. Especially if it isn't a really close friend or family. 

Do you think it's pointless, maybe even harmful, to try and tell people what you believe it might be that they need to figure out? Do they need to reach that realisation on their own?



Posted this on Mental Health, Serious Emotional Issues as well: 

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Wizardking

[Razard86]

The easiest way to present "truths" to people is to first understand it inside out. Try not to parrot something you might have heard from someone you admire or else you could potentially get interrogated and become silent after awhile because your understanding was not expert level. Aim to become an expert on something before you go around telling people you know otherwise you will look foolish and come across as inauthentic. I have met many people who do this nonsense, they use words and phrases and lack a deep understanding of what is being presented and trip up or fall silent when questioned about the depth of what they are saying. 

I was able to early on get a lot of this off my chest by debating online when I was younger with strangers, writing persuasive papers as part of my school curriculum, and have a father intelligent enough and patient enough every now and then to discuss things with me. This along with books that I read, online seminars I watched, and constant contemplation on these topics brought clarity. You need to turn your mind into a courtroom, and have one side argue a point, and another side raise objections, and then train yourself to understand both sides and pick the side you feel based on the arguments has a higher consistency in its point than the other side. Through this process you also need to be aware of what biases you already have otherwise you won't realize you entered into that topic already leaning in one direction. 

So make sure you are aware of any negative emotions that may arise when points that are opposite to what you prefer are raised and ask yourself if you can overcome it. Why? Because if you present a truth to someone who believes in those points that trigger negative emotions and they speak it, your negative emotions will arise and you will react in a negative way at them. It's hard to present a message to someone that annoys you, or pisses you off. So it's best to work through that stuff otherwise you will just get into arguments with people. Also sometimes....you just won't be able to speak to people about certain things because either they are not in the mood, or are so full of hatred about that topic they refuse. In such cases learn to just let it go because in truth, it's not your job to convert people into your way of thinking even if from your perspective it could help them.

True help cannot be forced, all it can be is offered. 

[Soul Flight]

The universe seems to be a machine with the purpose of waking us up on a certain schedule. We really cannot interfere or alter the process even if we try. The best lessons come from a broken heart, empty wallet, and hungry stomach.

The dominos must fall in sequence. The dominos of thoughts and epiphanies in a brain must fall in order.

There is blowback and unforeseen repercussions when we try to interfere. Imagine Macbeth when he was warned he would kill his father and sleep with his mother. He ran away from home and in a "strange loop" he killed his father and slept with his mother.

It is the "allegory of the cave." When you leave the cave and go back in to try to wake people up, you sound insane and they either ignore you or kill you.

After shrooms or an awakening we get so excited and enthusiastic. We want to share the experience with everyone and our loved ones. But the universe seems to have it rigged where we just look crazy. So be patient. Focus on yourself. Because really we are all one anyway. Very strange stuff Lol!

[Yimpa]

Focus on discovering truth for yourself. Everything else will fall in its place. Trying to fix others can actually make their situation worse when you are doing it from a biased and selfish way.

If you can become aware of bias and selfishness in yourself, you’re on the right path. If you outright deny it, then you are only fooling yourself.

[gettoefl]

you have no idea what they went through, you are engaging in projection

teach trust and forget truth

that is do what i do not what i say

should it work for you keep doing it, k?

in this way my truth is now your truth

so you have a chance at the whole truth

[An young being]

6 hours ago, Wizardking said:

A lot of people are suffering because of trauma that they don't want to face and that they maybe even deny. They might even deny that they are suffering. For example, a person who doesn't love/value/respect themselves goes into relationship after relationship that ends with them getting mistreated and finally dumped. They might be too caught up in their pride to take responsibility and instead just blame the other part which then causes the cycle to continue. If I could tell this person that they subconsciously don't think they deserve love because of perhaps something that happened to them in their childhood, would that be the right thing to do? 

Ignorance is bliss and in their ignorance they think they are experiencing bliss, at least most of the time. But if they were to heal themselves and develop better mindsets towards life they would experience true bliss. Sure the journey there will be painful but in the end they will be thankful that they did it. 

In therapy a lot of it's about making the patient realise these things for themselves, but with my personal experience in therapy I needed to hear the hard truth. I did 3 years where the therapist mostly just listened but when I switched to a therapist that actually told me what they thought, that's when I really started improving. 

I feel so bad for these people because some of them go their entires lives without realising this and fixing it. And most of the people who do realise these things probably don't start to do so properly until they have a mid life crisis or when they reach retirement and realise that life is about enjoying it, not reaching an end destination. I kinda interpret the saying "if you want to change the world change yourself" as also saying "you can only change people by inspiring them with your own change" but I find this way kind of discouraging because of how much longer that takes and how much time is then wasted on the unnecessary suffering that they might have to go through to realise it for themselves. Maybe it would be seen as creepy to get a psychoanalysis/advice from someone. Especially if it isn't a really close friend or family. 

Do you think it's pointless, maybe even harmful, to try and tell people what you believe it might be that they need to figure out? Do they need to reach that realisation on their own?



Posted this on Mental Health, Serious Emotional Issues as well: 

 

I think there are already enough resources to help us point towards the truth. A simple Google search would help. You can always give clues or options to find it, if they can't find it themselves. But telling them the truth straightaway is not a good thing, in my opinion. The journey is more important than the answer.

[Yimpa]

29 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

you have no idea what they went through, you are engaging in projection

You will never truly know 100% what a person has or is going through. Even if they tell you, it’ll still be a limited and cherry-picked version of the whole person.

The more honest and authentic you are with yourself, people close to you will naturally open themselves up more.  They’ll start sharing aspects about themselves that you’ve never known before, even if you’ve known the person for decades.

This is why remaining open and humble in this work is important. Not just yourself, but the other person as well. Just don’t waste time with people who are completely close-minded, as they will suck you into their fantasy unapologetically. 

[gettoefl]

5 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

You will never truly know 100% what a person has or is going through. Even if they tell you, it’ll still be a limited and cherry-picked version of the whole person.

The more honest and authentic you are with yourself, people close to you will naturally open themselves up more.  They’ll start sharing aspects about themselves that you’ve never known before, even if you’ve known the person for decades.

This is why remaining open and humble in this work is important. Not just yourself, but the other person as well. Just don’t waste time with people who are completely close-minded, as they will suck you into their fantasy unapologetically. 

vulnerability and humility are key, even on internet forums

i've been a useless piece of shit plenty of times and will no doubt be so again

[Yimpa]

25 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

vulnerability and humility are key, even on internet forums

i've been a useless piece of shit plenty of times and will no doubt be so again

Yes, but if the other person is entertaining that idea / agreeing with you instead of helping you be open to new perspectives, then that’s a red flag.