Autism and Spirituality

[Carl-Richard]

5 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

isn’t it called neuro divergent now

It doesn't just refer to autism (or ADHD).

 

11 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

Can you be Autistic and have ADHD at the same time?

Yes.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Princess Arabia]

14 minutes ago, An young being said:

What do you guys mean by black sheep? I know only of this one.

 

 

Close -Caption please

[Princess Arabia]

3 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

It doesn't just refer to autism (or ADHD).

 

Yes.

I see, thank you.

[PurpleTree]

i am an only child from a single mother i’m not sure if i’m the black sheep or not 

maybe i’m a black g.o.a.t.

[An young being]

6 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Close -Caption please

I don't think it needs caption to be understood. ( Or I am too lazy to find it with cc) It's a funny clip which describes black sheep as someone who is different and cunning from the rest of the crowd like a wolf. In this clip, all others are robots, whereas the black sheep is it's creator

Here is a shortened version:

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by An young being
Mistake

[AerisVahnEphelia]

@Carl-Richard 
The Barnum effect doesn't exist; it's a vibe meant to explain that your mind is weaving a lot of nonsense to self-justify all the time. That is the only true fact, it's observable but cannot be acknowledged by a religious mind that believes in facts, causes, and effects.

So, you all abandon religions only to become religiously devoted to various mythologies under the guise of science/psychology or whatever...

People's behavior is different: a fact.

We can attribute Pokemon names to describe it : nonsense.

Let's invent labels such as autistic, cromistic, or mentally perturbed to judge others' behaviors that don't conform to the idea of "creating your new fiction to oppose the first one."

Let's invent an idea to justify it, given that god is dead; let's make up a new one:

"Everyone using social networks for more than 4 hours a day starts to see their brain reshaped; now they show signs of autism, ADHD, and a lack of interest in fulfilling their sexual desires."

The only difference from religion is the number of mental delusions one needs to adhere to.

I'm showing you how nothing you're constructing through this type of logic is consistent.

You speculate based on priors that are themselves purely grounded in feelings, causing the belief in mythological causes and effects like religions.

Feelings are not reality, and if you find reality, you cannot speak of it, it's an event.

You are not inferring reality properly; every word you utter is a sound, attaching meaning to events that cannot have a foundation.

I mean, keep enjoying yourself, but even if you were a super autist pikachu lvl 58 I don't see how that is going to help you in your quest if that is the Truth.

Of course, I might be as full of shit as everyone else, so perhaps nothing is fabricated, and indeed, you're living in reality while I am confused in my own delusions about what is real and what is a mythical belief system.

Edited October 9, 2023 by AerisVahnEphelia

[Carl-Richard]

15 hours ago, AerisVahnEphelia said:

The Barnum effect doesn't exist

Yet it exists to describe when you're creating non-sense. I got a suggestion:

Most things exist relative to some set of assumptions. So it's generally much simpler to start by saying that things exist, and then you can choose to state the underlying assumptions if that is needed for clarification. Then you avoid the laborious process of repeatedly contradicting yourself ("it doesn't exist, but it's just a way to...").

For example:

You: "Atoms exist".
Them: "But atoms are only a fiction!".
You: "Yes, that is true. Atoms exist relative to a certain interpretation of modern physics". 

It's easy to over-complicate things using skepticism.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[AerisVahnEphelia]

@Carl-Richard 

No, it doesn't. I attempt to reach you within your mythology by using gods that exist within it to observe your reaction, but it doesn't ring a bell. Atoms are another fantasy. Even if they existed, you cannot describe them, nor their function.

When something happens in reality, it is never because of a belief in the mind but rather due to emergences and second-nature occurrences. Your mind will do anything to avoid the emptiness of everything by inferring a mythology because we are not supposed to become aware that everything is purely a void.

What causes things is doing things, but we have no idea what we are doing, where we are going, and what is happening. That's the only fact you need to understand about reality.

No fiction is going to put you in touch with reality. I can talk endlessly about the Bible; it doesn't make anything in it true. And don't start with empiricism; it's devoid of any reality. All observations are ungrounded fictions. In fact, you cannot observe reality at all; skepticism doesn't exist because it's still within the mind.

Now, you're probably categorizing me as a relativist, but I see myself more as a super-pragmatic hardcore realist to the point that I cease to acknowledge fiction as holding any truth.

[Carl-Richard]

@AerisVahnEphelia

I just prefer to speak in a way that is in line with how people generally speak, and if there is a misunderstanding, then you can explore that through conversation. Then the misunderstandings themselves are also more easily resolved. And people do generally speak as if things exist. The problem is not when people speak like that. The problem is when you misunderstand the depth and conceptual nuance behind things.

I'll entertain the idea that what people call "skepticism" is just when you are stuck in a certain inelegant and uneconomic language game (but of course with sincere intentions to criticize naive realists). Then, as you become better at communicating your skepticism, you naturally become a pragmatist, or a skeptic who dares to engage in all sorts of language games (including the realist one) and giving caveats when necessary.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[AerisVahnEphelia]

33 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

@AerisVahnEphelia

I just prefer to speak in a way that is in line with how people generally speak, and if there is a misunderstanding, then you can explore that through conversation. Then the misunderstandings themselves are also more easily resolved. And people do generally speak as if things exist. The problem is not when you speak like that. The problem is when you misunderstand the depth and conceptual nuance behind things.

I'll entertain the idea that what people call "skepticism" is just when you are stuck in a certain inelegant and uneconomic language game (but of course with sincere intentions to criticize naive realists). Then, as you become better at communicating your skepticism, you naturally become a pragmatist, or a skeptic who dares to engage in all sorts of language games (including the realist one) and giving caveats when necessary.

I feel we are getting somewhere here, but for me it's still a bit lacking clarity, I'll try to vibe back " as long as you understand the relation of "a langage" to the universe". now do you really understand this relation ?

it might even be a wrong assumption to think that your compass and setting the ones of others is going to solve problems that can only be solved through another experience than the ones of words/langage ; sniffing compass.
 

Edited October 9, 2023 by AerisVahnEphelia

[Soul Flight]

Maybe the word autism has been co-opted by introverts. Maybe it is hyperbole. On first dates some people claim to be autistic or on the spectrum or introverted. They are trying to broadcast their future expectations of a relationship in some weird way. The word autism is shorthand for damaged or needy.

Maybe autism is a code word for OCD.

I notice a lot of mental health issues on this forum more akin to schizophrenia or psychosis. But their presence here makes perfect sense and I suspect may be very similar to the awakened state. A lot of artists suffer these ailments.

There might be a ven diagram of mental illness and spirituality. Those of us with mystical psychedelic experiences are more willing to listen to mentally ill people. Their stories sound like "trip reports." The question is if mentally ill people are on the spiritual path or simply psychotic.

Leo claims he never had friends or girlfriends in high school. It is a little weird. Could be a defense mechanism to intimacy. Leo's whole life could be a defense mechanism to intimacy. Solipsism could be a defense mechanism to intimacy. The quest for awakening could be a defense mechanism to intimacy. In the same way Trump created an empire and a Presidency driven by massive insecurity, maybe Leo created all this to avoid intimacy.

Personally, I have been jokingly accused of being autistic. I do feel I am on the spectrum or a little socially awkward. I am the oldest child but a black sheep for sure.

Maybe incels are autistic? Proud boys? etc?

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Soul Flight

[Ajax]

16 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

Does it have something to do with a particular side of the brain and how they interpret the world?

In my cause it has been a load of B.S. I was/am very peculiar, but I reject the "titles" bestowed upon me because I see the world differently, act differently, and communicate differently and differ significantly from the popular majority.

16 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

Are you the youngest in the family and are you considered the black sheep, since the black sheep is usually the one to Awaken first and is usually the youngest.

My dad was the oldest in my family... lol I am also the oldest. Franky, "black sheep" is a name that sheeple give to people who seem different from regular sheep... lol.  Both my sister and I have very strange peculiarities as did both my parents... lol so I guess you could call it a family of black sheep if you wanted to use words... lol

 

16 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

Can you be Autistic and have ADHD at the same time?

If you can be a "furry" you can be anything! lmao I'm not a furry but I am furry! 

16 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

I would love to understand the correlation between Autism and Spirituality.

If you see the world differently, you look for different things and you find unique answers.... Some of those answers could only be found in the "spirit". Normie world looks like a box and I just see there is more to see on the outside... Nothing special, I just like looking around LOL... 

Any follow up questions? 

[Argonaut]

@Princess Arabia @Ajax I've been thinking about this topic SO much recently. I have so many neurodiverse people in my friend groups and family that I didn't even realize what "normal" was until I left college. 

I agree with many of the previous replies. Being neurodiverse can cause people to explore things that the average person has no good reason to actually investigate. Because of this, I consider my own OCD a true blessing. I obsess over things that are uncertain, so of course, I was particularly interested in the big existential questions of life that nobody seemed to have answers for. And thank God that obsessing took me in the right direction haha

BUT also, neurodiverse people struggle with things that the average person doesn't! One of the most challenging things I have ever faced is obsessive intrusive thoughts. These are normally taboo, blasphemous, offensive thoughts that get stuck on repeat.... my last big experience with them lasted 8 months on the same terrifying thought. It was SO important for me to use a label, because it just so happens that any advice tailored to people with pure O tends to work shockingly well on me. Seriously, it felt like someone wrote an instruction manual to my brain when I read my first book about pure O. And if I avoided labels, I would still be stuck in confusion and shame. I feel like I did a lot of spiritual bypassing where I would tell myself that I could just meditate my way out of intrusive thoughts or just take more psychedelics... but I needed a damn therapist no matter how woke I was lol. 

So yes, I definitely think that certain types of neurodivergence can lead people towards spirituality. However, that means us cooks sometimes have to  spend a bit more time taking care of our mental well-being in the relative world. 

[Carl-Richard]

13 hours ago, AerisVahnEphelia said:

I feel we are getting somewhere here, but for me it's still a bit lacking clarity

For example, is routinely ending your posts with "but who knows, maybe I'm just bullshitting myself" an elegant way of communicating? Is routinely contradicting yourself like "it doesn't exist, but..." an elegant way of communicating? What are you really trying to get across by doing that repeatedly? That we should be skeptical of our beliefs in general? I mean sure, but one time is sufficient. What about instead of doing that, when talking about a concept, and when it's relevant to do so, you lay out the specific limitations of that concept using straightforward and non-neurotic language? Quantify the skepticism, don't just reduce it to a mantra.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Ajax]

4 hours ago, Argonaut said:

@Princess Arabia @Ajax I've been thinking about this topic SO much recently. I have so many neurodiverse people in my friend groups and family that I didn't even realize what "normal" was until I left college. 

I agree with many of the previous replies. Being neurodiverse can cause people to explore things that the average person has no good reason to actually investigate. Because of this, I consider my own OCD a true blessing. I obsess over things that are uncertain, so of course, I was particularly interested in the big existential questions of life that nobody seemed to have answers for. And thank God that obsessing took me in the right direction haha

BUT also, neurodiverse people struggle with things that the average person doesn't! One of the most challenging things I have ever faced is obsessive intrusive thoughts. These are normally taboo, blasphemous, offensive thoughts that get stuck on repeat.... my last big experience with them lasted 8 months on the same terrifying thought. It was SO important for me to use a label, because it just so happens that any advice tailored to people with pure O tends to work shockingly well on me. Seriously, it felt like someone wrote an instruction manual to my brain when I read my first book about pure O. And if I avoided labels, I would still be stuck in confusion and shame. I feel like I did a lot of spiritual bypassing where I would tell myself that I could just meditate my way out of intrusive thoughts or just take more psychedelics... but I needed a damn therapist no matter how woke I was lol. 

So yes, I definitely think that certain types of neurodivergence can lead people towards spirituality. However, that means us cooks sometimes have to  spend a bit more time taking care of our mental well-being in the relative world. 

Very well done for finding a solution to your problem. Seems like you are on the right track! Bravo!

LOVE

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Ajax

[SeaMonster]

22 hours ago, PenguinPablo said:

Yes typically those that FIT IN more are more Asleep -- but see it as normal -- as it it is in fact the norm -- but obviously judge others that are different due to tribal chimp behavior -- not questioning their assumptions, lack of critical thinking about the society they are a part of.

There are plenty of autistic atheists and conventional believers.  There are some spiritual seekers, but I don't think they are overrepresented.

Secondly, autistic people can be VERY naive about things like politics, society, psychology of individuals, etc.  Just abysmally gullible and easily brainwashed.  They don't seem to have much "street wisdom" at all; something where a person can see through the bullshit without having all the evidence right in their face.  I say this from actual experience with autistic individuals; the level of naivete is just stunning.

[Razard86]

3 hours ago, SeaMonster said:

There are plenty of autistic atheists and conventional believers.  There are some spiritual seekers, but I don't think they are overrepresented.

Secondly, autistic people can be VERY naive about things like politics, society, psychology of individuals, etc.  Just abysmally gullible and easily brainwashed.  They don't seem to have much "street wisdom" at all; something where a person can see through the bullshit without having all the evidence right in their face.  I say this from actual experience with autistic individuals; the level of naivete is just stunning.

Everybody's naïve in some way. Naïve is just a lack of maturity. Majority of people believe that paranoia and negative thinking is the lack of naivety it's not it's just another form of being naïve. This just comes from a lack of wisdom. The source is prejudice, which comes from bias. The solution? Never have an absolute belief or opinion on anything. The moment you catch your self saying things like "usual" or "of course this happened I knew it!!!" You are already on the path of potential paradigm lock which prevents you from seeing things as they are and causes projection.

This is the true form of naivety. But majority of people are too fear based to make this discovery, because it is easier in their minds and less complicated to assume the worse. This causes you to never learn authentic discernment. It is what is.... 

[An young being]

Many around me are autistic, but neither the family nor themselves know it.

[Carl-Richard]

4 hours ago, SeaMonster said:

I say this from actual experience with autistic individuals; the level of naivete is just stunning.

I'll sign under that ?

[Princess Arabia]

14 hours ago, Ajax said:

In my cause it has been a load of B.S. I was/am very peculiar, but I reject the "titles" bestowed upon me because I see the world differently, act differently, and communicate differently and differ significantly from the popular majority.

My dad was the oldest in my family... lol I am also the oldest. Franky, "black sheep" is a name that sheeple give to people who seem different from regular sheep... lol.  Both my sister and I have very strange peculiarities as did both my parents... lol so I guess you could call it a family of black sheep if you wanted to use words... lol

 

If you can be a "furry" you can be anything! lmao I'm not a furry but I am furry! 

If you see the world differently, you look for different things and you find unique answers.... Some of those answers could only be found in the "spirit". Normie world looks like a box and I just see there is more to see on the outside... Nothing special, I just like looking around LOL... 

Any follow up questions? 

Why do you call yourself peculiar. What are you comparing it with. Aren't we all peculiar on an individual scale. People will act differently when in groups VS being alone. I think if we were to ask each individual if they thought they were different from everybody else they would say yes, even peculiar.