Don’t want to be alone in the universe

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The objective of spirituality is to be able to shift to the absolute dimension of existence, to leave the relative appearance.

See, this is precisely where you are deluding yourself. You cannot 'leave the relative appearance'... this is nothing but the desperate fantasy of a conflicted ego that has no idea why it even exists in the first place.

The objective of spirituality is to learn to recognize the absolute in the relative. Which is why it is called the pathless path. After this realization has occurred, you still chop wood and carry water just like you did before... only now you know why you do it.

[Breakingthewall]

3 minutes ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

See, this is precisely where you are deluding yourself. You cannot 'leave the relative appearance'... this is nothing but the desperate fantasy of a conflicted ego that has no idea why it even exists in the first place.

The objective of spirituality is to learn to recognize the absolute in the relative. Which is why it is called the pathless path. After this realization has occurred, you still chop wood and carry water just like you did before... only now you know why you do it.

not agree. Let's see, what we really are is absolute. what is relative is appearance. mental construction. You are wrong to say that you are relative and you cannot escape it. you are absolute and it seems that you are relative. you can completely leave the relative, become a drooling mystic open to the infinite all the time you don't eat and starve and die.  There is no problem with that. Starve and die are relative ideas. 

you can also learn to open yourself to the absolute at will. there are degrees. It is extremely difficult, an art, because relative appearance lurks. What you're talking about is self-help. This is very good and really helps, but it is not real mysticism. Real mysticism is absolutely real, you should know that since you are a guy interested in spirituality. It's to open yourself to the absolute dimension, and to do that, your mind have to renounce completely to relative frequency of though. Relative and absolute are different just because your mental frequency. Relative is imaginary in that sense. Stop imagining, and the relative falls. 

[Yimpa]

To be finite is to make distinctions and have biases, so that’s how you’ll view reality. The consequence is needing one thing over another thing. For example,

• alone vs. together
• right vs. wrong
• us vs. them
• me vs. you
• certainty vs. uncertainty
• absolute vs. relative
• real vs. imaginary 

Contemplate what makes one better than another and how it fits your survival strategy. 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Yimpa

[Breakingthewall]

33 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

All your left with is pure understanding of reality. There was never a “you” attaining anything. Complete selflessness and free from all biases. 

Yes , but now you remember that? You should go to the absolute again, then from the relative you forget it, because in the moment that you label and structure, you loose it, you make it relative

[Osaid]

6 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

I would say that the problem is mixing relative and absolute. It is something subtle and it seems that few realize it.

There is only one thing to realize, which is what you are. If you just realize what you are, you don't have to focus on every single thought structure, that does not work. You cannot focus in on every single thought structure because different thoughts can be generated forever. You have to "see through" the structure of thoughts as a whole, which automatically happens when you realize what you are. And it is not anything intellectual or relative, it is not detaching from anything, and it is not removing a belief, it is simply just becoming aware of what you are, like you would become aware of sound. When you remove or detach from things, you are still operating in the realm of beliefs, and so you are fighting fire with fire, so to speak. Of course you will not be affected by beliefs when you completely remove the ability to perceive a belief, but you can view yourself with perfect clarity even while viewing a belief.

The reason why no one seems to realize it is because they are just adopting their psychedelic experiences back into their identity. They have not fundamentally realized what they are yet, and so they are still substituting experience with identity and knowledge. You can grasp what you are from any state. It's just that certain states make invalid beliefs about yourself more obvious.

There is a "progression" which can be perceived, for example, you might improve emotionally. You might improve your habits. Stuff like that. But this is not at the root, this is simply stemming from the same medium of belief-changing. This is what therapy does. And this is what a profound psychedelic experience might do. It happens because you changed your beliefs about yourself into something that is less dysfunctional, but beliefs are still being used as a crutch. It is possible to "transcend" the belief-making forever, which is just seeing self-beliefs as what they are, and then that stops you from ever panicking in response to thoughts about yourself.

6 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

I am alone is a definition. It is relative. It is ultimate attachment to the relative. simply "i" is relative. even "am" only is.

Yes. "I" and "am" and any other communication following that is the basis for self-delusion. You have never in your life ever been able to describe yourself. It's impossible. When you say "I went for a walk today", that is absolutely not what you are. When you say "I am a human", that is absolutely not what you are. When you say "I am thirsty", that is absolutely not what you are. All these statements are just communications, they are not you. They are statements and conclusions generated by you. Reality doesn't exist as a statement or conclusion.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Osaid

[Razard86]

7 hours ago, Yimpa said:

When I experienced the “Godhead”, it was like experiencing nothing and everything simultaneously. There are no words to describe it, really. The idea of having an identity or details… doesn’t compute. You realize that everything you think is real is completely imaginary. No time, no space, none of it! But somehow, you are all of it.

It blows my fucking mind just thinking about it.

It definitely is amazing and one day you do it long enough it will be completely ordinary to you. You will get to experience being amazed and feeling normal at the same time. LOL. Pretty amazing.

[Breakingthewall]

46 minutes ago, Osaid said:

It is possible to "transcend" the belief-making forever, which is just seeing self-beliefs as what they are,

I would say that what happens is an energetic change. Learned limiting beliefs create a constraint, which is really what we perceive as the self. a kind of tension, pressure, closure, which is perceived as a center. They are not only beliefs transmitted by other people but beliefs that are impossible to ignore, such as that if you are hit it hurts or that you need to eat. all this creates the defined self.

That is why you can free yourself from everything conceptual but the self as the center of experience is still there. When you manage to open the self, release the constriction, the energetic change occurs. The experience goes from something tight, tense, alert, to waves of energy that feel like pleasure, freedom, joy. It is the end of suffering because you realize that before you were suffering absolutely every second without pause. This energetic change brings with it a change in the perception of the experience. The mental definition becomes zero, and the moment is perceived as openness without limit. As you said, you realize what you are, and the only thing you can say about that is that there are no limits. Immortality is clearly perceived, wherever you look it is infinity. This, now, is infinite. The Freedom

[UnbornTao]

You're speculating about what is going to happen based on hearsay whose presumed reality hasn't yet been experienced.

If you are alone in the universe, who is that you you're speaking about? Contemplate that.

Edited October 18, 2023 by UnbornTao

[Osaid]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

 but beliefs that are impossible to ignore, such as that if you are hit it hurts or that you need to eat. all this creates the defined self.

The sensation of pain is not self or belief. Hunger is not self or belief. Neither of those create anything but hunger and pain. They are biological motivators for preserving your body. It's important not to confuse the experience of being a human as an identity. Identity has nothing to do with your experience as a human.

In a video game, Mario is programmed to lose life points and flash red when he is hit by a fireball to preserve his body, but that is not creating a self, it is literally programmed into Mario. It is a indicator that tells the player "this kills Mario", but notice that the player does not need to believe that they are Mario in order to realize that they should avoid pain in the video game. 

There is also no need to ignore beliefs. You can't ignore pain if you want to live, which is right. But pain is not a belief. It is the biological imperative you are programmed with. As an example, your nervous system is designed to experience fear in reaction to loud unexpected sounds. It is hard to say "I fear loud sounds" because the fear was experienced before you could even say it to yourself. This type of fear happens unexpectedly, determined by something which isn't self, but rather an internal biological mechanism. It's also interesting to notice that there is not much judgment or ruminating with this type of fear, it is very quick and succinct. You don't associate yourself with this afterwards, like "I am a person who fears loud sounds" or "I hate loud sounds." It is perceived exactly as it is, a quick adrenaline rush which motivates you to neutralize and inspect your surroundings, that is exactly what fear is in this scenario.

Not all motivations are motivated mentally by self. There are objective biological motivations that just take control over your body. You don't rationalize moving your hand off of a hot stove, pain does that for you. 

[universe]

It's one of the most terrifying things yes.

[Yimpa]

33 minutes ago, universe said:

It's one of the most terrifying things yes.

Damn, the universe itself has confirmed some breaking news.

This is a scientific breakthrough!!

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, Osaid said:

The sensation of pain is not self or belief. Hunger is not self or belief. Neither of those create anything but hunger and pain.

5 hours ago, Osaid said:

 

Why do you think that absolutely all humans that exist, without any exception, function at the level of the contracted self? Obviously hunger and pain are not beliefs, but they generate beliefs. thinking: if I don't eat i will I die, it is a belief. It is not false, it is a belief. Beliefs are essential for survival, in fact the structured mind is the human survival tool, without it you would be a guy with Alzheimer's in the middle of the Amazon jungle, or a 2-year-old baby alone in the mountains, to give two examples. The basis of beliefs and structured thinking is the duality of life and death. hence its strength. but the "enlightenment" thing is no joke. If you want to let the self fall, you have to, neither more nor less, forget the idea of death. Truly, not as exercise. You have to dissolve all the structures of the mind, absolutely all of them, and this is the basis of all of them. If not, there will continue to be a center. if you want to dissolve the center, and become infinite, really. awake total, then, zero structures. Does anyone else have the courage for this?

[Razard86]

12 hours ago, Yimpa said:

There comes a point where absolute = relative. There’s no difference. Of course, for the sake of human conversation, this seems absurd and wrong… but from the absolute point of view, it makes perfect sense. 

When I experienced the Godhead, I didn’t have to leave my previous existence or ideas about God to get there. It wasn’t like running a marathon and reaching a finish line (which requires time and space). 

All your left with is pure understanding of reality. There was never a “you” attaining anything. Complete selflessness and free from all biases. 

I'm glad you get it. They are the same. But I will say....you can still experience an ever deeper and deeper Oneness. That's the mystery. It never ends with how deeply intimate you can experience yourself.

[cetus]

On 10/8/2023 at 3:24 AM, TheWind said:

But I’m having trouble dealing with the fact that I am all alone in the universe. I find this terrifying.

Now for the good news: It's all your creation.

[Razard86]

On 10/8/2023 at 5:15 AM, Leo Gura said:

You can't know. But you can simply desire truth.

The problem is that you're looking for a guaranteed reward for loving truth. But that's not a true love of truth. True love of truth means that you don't care if there is a reward or not. Truth is your reward.

The only problem here is that people aren't intelligent enough to love truth for its own sake. And frankly such people don't deserve to Awaken. Awakening is the reward God made for those who truly love truth.

I find it insulting to even explain to someone why he should love truth.

Leo....if I stripped you of your memories, and your body, gave you his memories and his body you would be him lol. Let's not forget this. Can't be insulting when he is just another iteration of you with a different configuration. Isn't it fun to discover how impatient we can be with ourselves?

[Razard86]

On 10/8/2023 at 2:33 PM, Yimpa said:

Stop letting people tell you how you should be. They have no influence over you unless you make them into gods.

Lol they already are. And we influence each other regardless, we can't not influence each other it is inevitable.

[BlueOak]

13 hours ago, Osaid said:

All these statements are just communications, they are not you. They are statements and conclusions generated by you. Reality doesn't exist as a statement or conclusion.

What we experience is the entirety of existence.

[gettoefl]

12 hours ago, Osaid said:

The sensation of pain is not self or belief. Hunger is not self or belief. Neither of those create anything but hunger and pain. They are biological motivators for preserving your body. It's important not to confuse the experience of being a human as an identity. Identity has nothing to do with your experience as a human.

In a video game, Mario is programmed to lose life points and flash red when he is hit by a fireball to preserve his body, but that is not creating a self, it is literally programmed into Mario. It is a indicator that tells the player "this kills Mario", but notice that the player does not need to believe that they are Mario in order to realize that they should avoid pain in the video game. 

There is also no need to ignore beliefs. You can't ignore pain if you want to live, which is right. But pain is not a belief. It is the biological imperative you are programmed with. As an example, your nervous system is designed to experience fear in reaction to loud unexpected sounds. It is hard to say "I fear loud sounds" because the fear was experienced before you could even say it to yourself. This type of fear happens unexpectedly, determined by something which isn't self, but rather an internal biological mechanism. It's also interesting to notice that there is not much judgment or ruminating with this type of fear, it is very quick and succinct. You don't associate yourself with this afterwards, like "I am a person who fears loud sounds" or "I hate loud sounds." It is perceived exactly as it is, a quick adrenaline rush which motivates you to neutralize and inspect your surroundings, that is exactly what fear is in this scenario.

Not all motivations are motivated mentally by self. There are objective biological motivations that just take control over your body. You don't rationalize moving your hand off of a hot stove, pain does that for you. 

yes thanks osaid

body is inescapable and un-ignorable while mind is up to you and in your own hands

body will do what it needs to do while mind can be tweaked and mastered and overcome

once mind sees that you see it, its wheels stop turning slowly and surely

[gettoefl]

we are clones in different clothes, everyone i meet is 99.999% identical to me, i meet myself everywhere i go, me giving myself lesson after lesson and treat after treat

aloneness is brilliant when i can change such a miniscule part of myself yet find astonishing diversity and unending euphoria in what i experience

only a mind speaks of differences and division, all is sameness and all are long lost limbs

[Yimpa]

4 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Lol they already are. And we influence each other regardless, we can't not influence each other it is inevitable.

You can raise your consciousness to relate to others on a deeper level.