Don’t want to be alone in the universe

[Inliytened1]

7 minutes ago, Osaid said:

Bro, it's a belief.

 

It sounds like he's has had a bit of direct experience of this as well so I would not completely discount what he is saying as his belief.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Osaid]

3 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

It sounds like he's has had a bit of direct experience of this as well so I would not completely discount what he is saying as his belief.

You can't be bothered by something that doesn't exist.

[TheWind]

2 hours ago, Yimpa said:

I’ve personally lived most of my life being told how I should be and what is the right way to live. Oppression. This is what should be realized as miserable and terrifying, yet most see this as something they want to protect. Imagine that!

This is a very good point, I haven’t taken a deep enough critical look at the alternative. This fear that I’ve been trying to push through has only come up relatively recently so I haven’t really had enough mental discourse to develop a powerful enough conviction to adequately combat this fear. But I do think this exercise will help get through it.

However I am curious by what you mean by you’ve been told your whole life how to live ? Did you grow up with dogmatic parents or something?

2 hours ago, Yimpa said:

 

The closer you are to truth, the more freedom and love you will embody. Even the freedom to be in pain and to hate yourself, more consciously.

 

I find this statement to also have validity. The more I chip away at true, the more I chip away at fear the more I find things like pain to be beautiful and relatively moreenjoyable. Which is why I’m interested and getting through it. 

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Osaid said:

You can't be bothered by something that doesn't exist.

There you have the obvious. So then I say: God feels alone and is bored, that's why he invents others, to feel that he is not alone.

And if you touch your penis, the baby Jesus cries.

What you say couldn't be more obvious: how can you fear what doesn't exist? 

[Yimpa]

27 minutes ago, TheWind said:

However I am curious by what you mean by you’ve been told your whole life how to live ? Did you grow up with dogmatic parents or something?

Yes. They actually aren’t as dogmatic as my other family members, which I am grateful for. 

I’m now helping them open their minds organically just by me being more authentic. All of our growth looks so different, which makes this process so beautiful to explore!

[vibv]

5 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

It seems obvious to me that your only purpose in this conversation is to appear superior. you adapt your speech to try that. an intense aroma of lies comes out of him. 

It's frustrating, I'd say you are fake. Just disguise in Truth to stand out here. 99% . I'd like to know if others here can perceive it . How many here are smart enough to see the nuance 

But who knows, there's an 1% of I'm interpreting you wrong

You're wrong. That's your ego that has to invalidate what I say because it threatens it.

I see you at a point I was at before, maybe that's why you feel as if I'd think I'm superior to you. I'm not by the way.

I didn't think that you would attack me like that, I'm actually really disappointed. It seems that there's no reason to keep talking to people like you that are so stuck in their self-made equilibrium. I try that again and again and it always ends with no progress at all but me feeling frustrated and just bad at the end. It's just not worth the effort.

But maybe someone else can derive some benefit from it. That could actually make it still worthwhile to have such discussions, albeit not for the one I'm discussing with, as it seems.

Edited October 9, 2023 by vibv

[TheWind]

3 hours ago, Osaid said:

Bro, it's a belief.

The belief "I am generating everyone I know" = fear and panic. Your reaction, which is fear, is to accomodate for this belief. In the same way that you would get up and drink a glass of water when thirsty. Or how you would become fearful when encountered with a bear.

You can actually just recontextualize this belief as "I am generating knowledge" or "I am generating all my knowledge." You are adding a useless interpretation in there which is causing fear.
 

I don’t think you fully understand what I am experiencing. I was sitting down with a youtube video in the back ground letting go of my thoughts and clearing my mind. Thoughts would come up and I’d let go. I was basically doing for 10-20 min. Then I all of the sudden realized that the voice in my head and the voice I was hearing on youtube was being created by what felt like god and no one else, I wasn’t thinking my own thoughts, and the other person wasn’t speaking their own words, “god” was thinking both of them(but I don’t want to say god because I can’t really say I’ve fully experienced/understood god. And I don’t want to falsely convince myself that I have when I haven’t had a total absolute awakening to god)  . Which was incredible. But that was accompanied by a deep solipsistic feeling of aloneness which terrified me. 
 

the belief I had was that I was thinking my own thoughts and that other people’s voices were there own. Now that line isn’t so clear. And my fear of the massive level of unknown that comes with that is holding me back from exploring that level of consciousness.  

[Breakingthewall]

8 minutes ago, vibv said:

You're wrong. That's your ego that has to invalidate what I say because it threatens it

Man please, stop the nonsense. My ego allows me to do psychedelics 20 times in a month with the slightest lost of balance while I'm running a business in the middle of a  chrisis, enough of the condescension.

8 minutes ago, vibv said:

didn't think that you would attack me like that, I'm actually really disappointed. It seems that there's no reason to keep talking to people like you that are so stuck in their self-made equilibrium

You are a fake. Your awakening is to idolize Leo and follow his teaching like the bible. 

The same thing you said in another post that one of the most awake people on the forum is Razard ?. I was testing you to see what's inside you. There is just woo woo and lies. FAKE

8 minutes ago, vibv said:

It's just not worth the effort.

The only effort you do is to appear here very advanced to the people that eventually read our conversation, because your are just a fake, but nice to talk with you. 

Pd: maybe you don't know what you are, but seems totally obvious to me. 100%

Edited October 9, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[vibv]

17 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Man please, stop the nonsense. My ego allows me to do psychedelics 20 times in a month with the slightest lost of balance while I'm running a business in the middle of a  chrisis, enough of the condescension.

That means absolutely nothing lol. 1000 trips are nothing compared to 1 good one.

Quote

You are a fake. Your awakening is to idolize Leo and follow his teaching like the bible. 

I found and walked the path with psychedelics and so on way before Leo even knew about it. I still look up to him because in the meantime he went way deeper than me. That doesn't mean that I think he's superior to me.

Quote

The same thing you said in another post that one of the most awake people on the forum is Razard ?. I was testing you to see what's inside you. There is just woo woo and lies. FAKE

@Razard86 has awoken to aspects I don't have to, so yeah, I look up to him for that too. He's still not superior to me. As I'm also not superior to anyone else, you imagine that I think that.

The reason why I called out your ego wasn't just a random attack, it was because you stopped to bother about the content of what I say and now resort to very shallow and predictable attacks against me as a person. That's a defense mechanism of the ego. I don't say stuff like that just for the sake of it, there's reason behind it.

Edited October 9, 2023 by vibv

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, vibv said:

That means absolutely nothing lol. 1000 trips are nothing compared to 1 good one

Yeah yeah, compared with yours. I Know. 

 

Just now, vibv said:

That doesn't mean that I think he's superior to me.

No, just mean that you follow exactly his ideas.  Without the slightest deviation. In fact, if you see any deviation in others you go fast to correct the heresy 

2 minutes ago, vibv said:

I say and now resort to very shallow and predictable attacks against me as a person. That's a defense mechanism of the ego. I don't say stuff like that just for the sake of it, there's reason behind it.

You are completely lost. I don't attack you, I'm just tired to talk with someone who's not authentic. 

 

3 minutes ago, vibv said:

Razard has awoken to aspects I don't have to

Yes, in the aspect of inventing histories. Let's see if I can stop to write in this forum because I'm done here if say

[vibv]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yeah yeah, compared with yours. I Know. 

That's your imagination, I didn't say that.

Quote

No, just mean that you follow exactly his ideas.  Without the slightest deviation. In fact, if you see any deviation in others you go fast to correct the heresy 

It humbles me because I know that I'm not nearly done yet. I don't follow anyone. That's your imagination again.

Quote

Let's see if I can stop to write in this forum because I'm done here if say

Good.

[Osaid]

19 minutes ago, TheWind said:

But that was accompanied by a deep solipsistic feeling of aloneness which terrified me. 

When I say belief, I am actually referring to your identity. Your beliefs about yourself = identity.

You had a change in perception, and your identity or beliefs about yourself changed to accomodate for that change in perception. Your ideas and beliefs about "who owns thoughts and sounds" were challenged. The identity/belief probably became something like "I am alone as God since I am generating everything." It's the same reason why you might feel bad about yourself because someone calls you stupid, it's because your beliefs about yourself are challenged.

"Aloneness" or "loneliness" tends to operate similarly despite the content or complexity changing. Structurally it is the same. It is based on your identity and beliefs about experience. 

I think it's worthwhile to contemplate which beliefs about yourself made you feel lonely, and why different beliefs feel less lonely. You can probably feel your levels of loneliness fluctuating, so just contemplate what is going on there, would be my advice.

[Osaid]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

There you have the obvious. So then I say: God feels alone and is bored, that's why he invents others, to feel that he is not alone.

And if you touch your penis, the baby Jesus cries.

It is very obvious in hindsight.

Really what is happening is that the mind is constantly trying to recontextualize everything through beliefs about itself. But there is a very strict limit to beliefs. Beliefs are identities which can never capture what you are. When you depend on identity instead of experience, it becomes maladaptive and dysfunctional. You are experience. When you think you are what you aren't, it feels bad, because it contradicts you, and so you have to fight against yourself and fear yourself.

[Razard86]

On 10/8/2023 at 4:00 AM, TheWind said:

     I am extremely curious about what is true however I don’t believe I am fully seeing the connection between good  and truth.  I have a conceptual understanding of absolute truth and a couple of recent experience with it that have been totally life changing. But I haven’t ben able to  surrender to the experience. 
 

     My ego doesn’t want to let go of other people out of fear of the pain that would come along with it. I can let go of myself but now I don’t know how to deal with letting of other people. But then obviously I haven’t fully let go of myself if “I” am still holding on to other people.

    Do I have to let go of other people before I can fully let go of myself?

This is a story. Every time you close your eyes and go to sleep....you let go of other people. You just don't call it that. If I told you if you closed your eyes and went to sleep you would never return.....THAT would scare you. But you assume with NO PROOF, that when you close your eyes and go to sleep that you will return. So notice how you conceptualize something, how you hold it, will create emotions.

Emotions only reflect how you look at something and whether you think it is good or bad. But again you let other people go all the time when you go to sleep. 

[BlueOak]

You are not. You are the universe.

Every single facet and detail. Why would you separate a concept of 'you' out of the whole, to then invent a concept of loneliness or separation, to then feel bad about?

[Yimpa]

3 hours ago, BlueOak said:

Every single facet and detail. Why would you separate a concept of 'you' out of the whole, to then invent a concept of loneliness or separation, to then feel bad about?

By this logic, loneliness, separation, and feeling bad are details. So I see no contradiction.

[BlueOak]

7 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

By this logic, loneliness, separation, and feeling bad are details. So I see no contradiction.

I keep updating what I think about this as I type. I'll leave a message then probably have a different view later thank you for that.

I see loneliness as a separation from a piece of myself, and how far I am separated from those pieces, is how lonely I am. I don't define me, as being any bigger than what you are interacting with. The full me doesn't have an identity, it has no details, it is everything.

[Yimpa]

7 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

The full me doesn't have an identity, it has no details, it is everything.

When I experienced the “Godhead”, it was like experiencing nothing and everything simultaneously. There are no words to describe it, really. The idea of having an identity or details… doesn’t compute. You realize that everything you think is real is completely imaginary. No time, no space, none of it! But somehow, you are all of it.

It blows my fucking mind just thinking about it.

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, Osaid said:

It is very obvious in hindsight.

Really what is happening is that the mind is constantly trying to recontextualize everything through beliefs about itself. But there is a very strict limit to beliefs. Beliefs are identities which can never capture what you are. When you depend on identity instead of experience, it becomes maladaptive and dysfunctional. You are experience. When you think you are what you aren't, it feels bad, because it contradicts you, and so you have to fight against yourself and fear yourself.

I would say that the problem is mixing relative and absolute. It is something subtle and it seems that few realize it. Let's see, on a relative level, you can feel terribly alone. in fact, relative means in relation to another. If there is no other, on a relative level it is horror.

Absolute means without relation, without opposite. So if you want to experience yourself as absolute, you have to abandon the relative. The statement: I am alone, and I am dreaming reality, is relative everywhere. The absolute has no limits so it is indefinable, completely. I am alone is a definition. It is relative. It is ultimate attachment to the relative. simply "i" is relative. even "am" only is. The absolute is beyond any definition, and if you can't handle it and you are still interested in spirituality... welcome to religion. 

The objective of spirituality is to be able to shift to the absolute dimension of existence, to leave the relative appearance. To do this you have to leave all ideas, absolutely. and do the opening act that erases the experiential center. It is something that has been known for thousands of years. the true tao cannot be said. If it can be said, it is not the true Tao. If you don't like that, there is a lot of religious content to satisfied you, but it's relative. No false, relative. Nothing is false, nothing is true. 

[Yimpa]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The objective of spirituality is to be able to shift to the absolute dimension of existence, to leave the relative appearance. To do this you have to leave all ideas, absolutely.

There comes a point where absolute = relative. There’s no difference. Of course, for the sake of human conversation, this seems absurd and wrong… but from the absolute point of view, it makes perfect sense. 

When I experienced the Godhead, I didn’t have to leave my previous existence or ideas about God to get there. It wasn’t like running a marathon and reaching a finish line (which requires time and space). 

All your left with is pure understanding of reality. There was never a “you” attaining anything. Complete selflessness and free from all biases.