New War In Israel / Gaza

[Vrubel]

@Leo Gura What do you think should be the approach to Hamas supporters in the West? There are a lot of them in England, Germany, France and Sweden.

[Leo Gura]

23 minutes ago, HMD said:

I love how even after Japan was bombed by the US no terrorist organizations were formed.

Ironically the last PM of Japan was killed by a terrorist.

[Breakingthewall]

19 minutes ago, HMD said:

love how even after Japan was bombed by the US no terrorist organizations were formed. And today, they are standing head to head with them. They fought with innovation and by making themselves better. That's something the Muslim community fails to see. Competition is the way forward, not war. 

is a great example. Japan had imperial ambition, it tried with all its might, it faced the United States to the death, it was crushed with events such as the bombing of Tokyo with fire bombs or Hiroshima and Nagasaki. They saw that this path led to nothing, they decided to correct it, they forgot all that immediately and allied themselves with their enemy without the slightest resentment. that is looking forward, being intelligent, being alive. Muslims only look back, that leads to nothing, stagnation.

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

@Leo Gura What do you think should be the approach to Hamas supporters in the West? There are a lot of them in England, Germany, France and Sweden.

Unless they are planning terror attacks, nothing.

Unfortunately I think Israel is gonna create such a bloodbath in Gaza that we will have terrorist attacks in the US for a decade to come. An overreaction from Israel can easily create a new Osama Bin Laden character who will want to punish the US for supporting Israel's bloodbath.

This is gonna be such a mess for a decade to come.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Leo Gura

[An young being]

9 minutes ago, Starlight321 said:

Yeah, that happened. Foreign powers support all groups to advance their agenda all the time. However it is still a different matter if you support a group with the intention to undermine the opposite side or to create a extremist terrorist organisation who massacre your people intentionally.  

Yeah, even US used to do that sometimes and regret later.

[HMD]

@Starlight321

14 minutes ago, Starlight321 said:

I don't think that the people then thought that far ahead 

 

They'll still keep using Hamas as an excuse to raid and bomb Gaza. Perhaps more than ever. 

[Breakingthewall]

14 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

@Leo Gura What do you think should be the approach to Hamas supporters in the West? There are a lot of them in England, Germany, France and Sweden.

The problem are Sweden,  France and Holland. Tension with Muslims is growing there. not far away a right-wing extremist party will win and things like the banning of mosques will happen. Muslims will be provoked, and if they respond, they may be expelled. Those countries are not going to give in to terror, they are going to react. Events like Charlie Hebdo and Bataclan will multiply, and there will be a response

[Starlight321]

3 minutes ago, An young being said:

Yeah, even US used to do that sometimes and regret later.

@An young being 

Yes, and it often works amazingly in the short term like al quaida or even isis by letting them roam freely in eastern syria. I think when you are right now in the situation it is hard to predict how all your current actions will later unfold and what will be the consequences of it.

[Jacob Morres]

@Leo Gura fuck I hope ur wrong

 

[An young being]

Just now, Starlight321 said:

@An young being 

Yes, and it often works amazingly in the short term like al quaida or even isis by letting them roam freely in eastern syria. I think when you are right now in the situation it is hard to predict how all your current actions will later unfold and what will be the consequences of it.

Even if they know there is a good probability that it would unfold in a bad manner in the future, politicians worry more about their own period of rule rather than the far away future or humanity, due to political ambitions. An AI ruler could make or aid in making far better decisions for our welfare and survival.

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The problem are Sweden,  France and Holland. 

I don't think anything like that has chances of happening in Sweden anytime soon.

[Starlight321]

@HMD yeah and it is a terrible thing and I don't think it will stop any time in the near future. 

You seem very educated. I don't know how involved you are personally and didn't read all your previous posts but can you see the situation from the israeli perspective as well? 

@Breakingthewalldo you know muslims personally or have hang out with any?

[Joel3102]

24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Unless they are planning terror attacks, nothing.

Unfortunately I think Israel is gonna create such a bloodbath in Gaza that we will have terrorist attacks in the US for a decade to come. An overreaction from Israel can easily create a new Osama Bin Laden character who will want to punish the US for supporting Israel's bloodbath.

This is gonna be such a mess for a decade to come.

We finally got out of the war on terror era, and now right back there we are 

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Starlight321 said:

you know muslims personally or have hang out with any?

My mother's family are Muslim from turkey, I don't hate the Muslims at all, I see their noble, proud and affectionate character, they are very good people in many cases, but their ideology has a childish component, of blind obedience, prohibition of questioning and evolving, which hinders them terribly. Life does not allow stagnation, moving forward is mandatory, and Muslims do not want to. This can lead to disaster.

[Starlight321]

@An young being

6 minutes ago, An young being said:

Even if they know there is a good probability that it would unfold in a bad manner in the future, politicians worry more about their own period of rule rather than the far away future or humanity, due to political ambitions. An AI ruler could make or aid in making far better decisions for our welfare and survival.

I don't think anything like that has chances of happening in Sweden anytime soon.

I don't think so. An AI will be trained by certain people with data from people and bias would be baked into it. That means it will probably not "think" in what is a more conscious decision?"but materialistically. 

 there are so complex fundamental issues that no ai can solve in the foreseeable future like is it better to treat all humans equally or push for the more advanced countries or find the right balance between.

The bitter truth is that every person acts most of the time short term because survival is always decisions in the now to get you survive from moment to moment on the fly.

 Of course there are degrees and some people plan a lot for the future but they are rather the exception. I'm sure you everyone has examples where he preferes short term decisions which turned out desastrous in the long run like after years of  smoking getting sick.

I know it's an emotional thread so all this isn't meant to play down the severity of the situation but instead to get some insights how the human mind works.

[Vrubel]

@Leo Gura What do you think Israel's approach should be to the hostages? As I understand it will be near impossible to get them out of the tunnels. There are many babies, toddlers, young women and elderly among them. To be honest I think it's better for them to be dead than alive. Should Israel just flood them?

Edited October 15, 2023 by Vrubel

[An young being]

14 minutes ago, Starlight321 said:

@An young being

I don't think so. An AI will be trained by certain people with data from people and bias would be baked into it. That means it will probably not "think" in what is a more conscious decision?"but materialistically. 

 there are so complex fundamental issues that no ai can solve in the foreseeable future like is it better to treat all humans equally or push for the more advanced countries or find the right balance between.

The AI is there only to remove the short term bias. Imagine if there is an AI created with global representatives that could post questions that would point out possible problems in the long term and the leaders are forced to answer all the questions posted by it and reveal it to the public, before making important decisions. I know it all sounds advanced and far fetched, but that's where democracy of the future should move towards, to eliminate human bias and weaknesses and aid in making better decisions and to provide new perspectives.

Here is an interesting article pointed out by Bing chatbot to solve the current issue : (just for an idea, not to support the argument)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indiatoday.in/amp/world/story/israel-palestine-conflict-how-chhitmahal-can-inspire-a-west-bank-solution-2448226-2023-10-13

 

[Starlight321]

16 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

My mother's family are Muslim from turkey, I don't hate the Muslims at all, I see their noble, proud and affectionate character, they are very good people in many cases, but their ideology has a childish component, of blind obedience, prohibition of questioning and evolving, which hinders them terribly. Life does not allow stagnation, moving forward is mandatory, and Muslims do not want to. This can lead to disaster.

@Breakingthewall thx, I think I remember now that you mentioned that earlier. It's hard to keep track which person has which background and experiences.

I agree that this happens to be the case a lot, especially with lower income and education and poverty.

However, from personal experience, I know that there is more diversity and there always exists at least different sized bubbles of  people who live more stage orange or even green, like in turkey in the istanbul area or in marocco the city of fes. 

Here in europe at universities you can also find very open minded muslim people.

[HMD]

46 minutes ago, Starlight321 said:

can you see the situation from the israeli perspective as well?

Yes, I can see the Israeli perspective as well. But it's more difficult for me to sympathize with that perspective than the Palestinian perspective.

[An young being]

2 minutes ago, Starlight321 said:

@Breakingthewall 

Here in europe at universities you can also find very open minded muslim people.

I don't know about muslims in other regions, but I have met and have been friends with many muslims who are open minded. They sure do brag about their religion, but they also agree that negative points exist within their own religion. Some even participate and worship hindu gods sometimes during festivals as a show of respect to the religion. I have had a childhood mate who rigorously worshipped both Muslim and Hindu deities, even though he is from a Muslim background.

[PurpleTree]

8 minutes ago, Starlight321 said:

 

 

,from personal experience, I know that there is more diversity and there always exists at least different sized bubbles of  people who live more stage orange or even green, like in turkey in the istanbul area or in marocco the city of fes. 

 

Well many people in istanbul don’t take religion that serious. Especially in the hip areas. But that‘s only because people move away from religion imo. The more serious they take it the more kind of backwards(for the lack of a better term)

Also istanbul is like 20% non Muslims 

Edited October 15, 2023 by PurpleTree