Posted November 29, 2023 (edited) Edited November 29, 2023 by Raze Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 1 hour ago, RoerAmit said: Before you can go to tier 2 you need to have the most unbiased facts and data resources and people here are still listening to aljazerrah and shady X or telegram accounts. Literally. They even don't bother to check whether the info they consum on AJ or these shady X accounts is correct. As long as it suits their bias, it's fine. "Never be afraid to sit a while and think.” ― Lorraine Hansberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 43 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: For all the bombing Israel did, there was plenty of motive to kill the hostages. Killing them would have not stopped Israel, and would actually have made the bombing much worse. They sensed that Israel is so serious that it wouldn't matter that if they killed hostages. "Say to the sheep in your secrecy when you intend to slaughter it, Today you are slaughtered and tomorrow I am. Both of us will be consumed. My blood and your blood, my suffering and yours is the essence that nourishes the tree of existence.'" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 4 minutes ago, LSD-Rumi said: Killing them would have not stopped Israel By that logic Hamas should not have killed civilians on Oct 7th. You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 6 minutes ago, Lila9 said: Literally. They even don't bother to check whether the info they consum on AJ or these shady X accounts is correct. As long as it suits their bias, it's fine. Lol, Al-Jazeera is ranked as the one of the most unbiased news outlets and they have the strongest presence in Middle East amongst other news channels. Also, you don't need estimates to know how much damage was caused. You can just look at the bombing that took place all month long and you would immediately know a lot of people died here. "Say to the sheep in your secrecy when you intend to slaughter it, Today you are slaughtered and tomorrow I am. Both of us will be consumed. My blood and your blood, my suffering and yours is the essence that nourishes the tree of existence.'" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 1 minute ago, Leo Gura said: By that logic Hamas should not have killed civilians on Oct 7th. They were acting like enraged chimps released from cages attacking everyone and destroying everything. The attack was pretty stupid in the first place and they achieved nothing from it. They were guided by rage and hate and made irrational decisions. But maybe then the severe bombing brought back some sense into them. "Say to the sheep in your secrecy when you intend to slaughter it, Today you are slaughtered and tomorrow I am. Both of us will be consumed. My blood and your blood, my suffering and yours is the essence that nourishes the tree of existence.'" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 1 minute ago, LSD-Rumi said: Lol, Al-Jazeera is ranked as the one of the most unbiased news outlets and they have the strongest presence in Middle East amongst other news channels. Also, you don't need estimates to know how much damage was caused. You can just look at the bombing that took place all month long and you would immediately know a lot of people died here. Ranked as the one of most unbiased news outlets by whom? Hamas? lol It's known for its anti-Israel, anti-American and antisemitic bias. AJ is directly used as a propaganda tool by Hamas to spread their narrative, this is probably the most biased news outlet there. Wikipedia: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Jazeera_controversies_and_criticism&ved=2ahUKEwjqlI_16uiCAxVxdqQEHexuCMQQFnoECAcQBQ&usg=AOvVaw2VumaASl1m-n0TVtDhw90r "Never be afraid to sit a while and think.” ― Lorraine Hansberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, Jodistrict said: The Peace Groups are at Tier 2. “There Is an Alternative”: Meet the Israeli & Palestinian “Combatants for Peace” Urging Nonviolence https://www.democracynow.org/2023/11/27/combatants_for_peace_israel_palestine "Just two sides of the same coin" toxic relativism thinking is tier 1! When thinking how to heal the Gazaian from the cult they are in for decades which leave them misserable with no future (long before this war...), we cannot keep the absurd claim of symmetry between the two sides. No. There is one side who educate his citizens to killing in the aim of killing (not because of Israel. The Palestinians kill and torture each other very well by themselves), and there is another side who doesnt look for wars but its deffense doctrine has failed in oct 7th. This group you linked to is fine. No problem with this but won't solve the problem although its a good thing we want to encourage. Edited November 29, 2023 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 (edited) @Lila9 I am talking about the English version of Al Jazzera. The Arabic version is pretty biased. You can check many ranking websites for its credibility and they all say it is very credible. Edited November 29, 2023 by LSD-Rumi "Say to the sheep in your secrecy when you intend to slaughter it, Today you are slaughtered and tomorrow I am. Both of us will be consumed. My blood and your blood, my suffering and yours is the essence that nourishes the tree of existence.'" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 (edited) @LSD-Rumi A channel which does an ambush to a mother whos children has kidnapped bringing surprisingly a hamas person to the interview forcing her to say nasty things about her country hoping her fear will make her say this is the lowest thing ever you can expect a tv channel to do. That kind of channel cannot be unbiased. Edited November 29, 2023 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 49 minutes ago, Lila9 said: Literally. They even don't bother to check whether the info they consum on AJ or these shady X accounts is correct. As long as it suits their bias, it's fine. You can’t even accept the occupier/occupied dynamic between Israel and Palestine. Saying Gaza isn’t occupied because Israel withdrew is like saying a prisoner is free because the warden isn’t technically inside his jail cell. How can anyone move on to discuss solutions if the facts of reality can’t be agreed. Is the UK government and US state department who are both Israel’s allies good enough sources to confirm firstly that Palestinians are occupied? https://www.state.gov/reports/2016-report-on-international-religious-freedom/israel-and-the-occupied-territories/israel-and-the-occupied-territories-the-occupied-territories/ https://www.gov.uk/world/the-occupied-palestinian-territories/news Isreal apologists will claim any critique coming from a non jew as anti Semitic and claim Jews like Norman Finkelstein, Gabor Mate or Gideon Levy are traitors and self hating Jews if they give any critique. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, Leo Gura said: I would really like to see this discussion elevate to Tier 2 rather than cycling over and over again on Tier 1 finger pointing. Try to notice that finger-pointing is not achieving anything. I would absolutely love that. But only a few people here are reasonable and have interesting perspectives. Most just want to play games. @zazen We can talk when you rein in your projections and demonization. @LSD-Rumi I don't always agree with you but you seem like the kind of person with whom a tier 2 discussion is possible. Edited November 29, 2023 by Vrubel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, LSD-Rumi said: @Lila9 I am talking about the English version of Al Jazzera. The Arabic version is pretty biased. You can check many ranking websites for its credibility and they all say it is very credible. AJ English is the same like AJ Arabic but in English. Same bias. Edited November 29, 2023 by Lila9 "Never be afraid to sit a while and think.” ― Lorraine Hansberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 (edited) 46 minutes ago, zazen said: You can’t even accept the occupier/occupied dynamic between Israel and Palestine. Saying Gaza isn’t occupied because Israel withdrew is like saying a prisoner is free because the warden isn’t technically inside his jail cell. How can anyone move on to discuss solutions if the facts of reality can’t be agreed. Is the UK government and US state department who are both Israel’s allies good enough sources to confirm firstly that Palestinians are occupied? https://www.state.gov/reports/2016-report-on-international-religious-freedom/israel-and-the-occupied-territories/israel-and-the-occupied-territories-the-occupied-territories/ https://www.gov.uk/world/the-occupied-palestinian-territories/news Isreal apologists will claim any critique coming from a non jew as anti Semitic and claim Jews like Norman Finkelstein, Gabor Mate or Gideon Levy are traitors and self hating Jews if they give any critique. Gaza isn't occupied by Israel; it's a fact. You can think what you want, but it doesn't change this fact. You are cherry-picking Jews you personally agree with to confirm your bias, which may be antisemitic. Just because a few Jews agree with what you think doesn't mean that you are correct. Only because a few women out of many, agree with certain misogynistic beliefs, doesn't mean that the men who hold these beliefs are not misogynists. Edited November 29, 2023 by Lila9 "Never be afraid to sit a while and think.” ― Lorraine Hansberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 @Lila9@ Al Jazzera English Is described as slightly left leaning. It worked hard to be unbiased and credible so that it can establishe itself in The West and gain the trust of Westerners. So it is actually very different from Al Jazzera Arabic. Even Aljazeera Arabic is relatively way less biased than many of the news channels here in The Middle East. "Say to the sheep in your secrecy when you intend to slaughter it, Today you are slaughtered and tomorrow I am. Both of us will be consumed. My blood and your blood, my suffering and yours is the essence that nourishes the tree of existence.'" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 2 hours ago, Lila9 said: Ranked as the one of most unbiased news outlets by whom? Hamas? lol It's known for its anti-Israel, anti-American and antisemitic bias. AJ is directly used as a propaganda tool by Hamas to spread their narrative, this is probably the most biased news outlet there. Wikipedia: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Jazeera_controversies_and_criticism&ved=2ahUKEwjqlI_16uiCAxVxdqQEHexuCMQQFnoECAcQBQ&usg=AOvVaw2VumaASl1m-n0TVtDhw90r Are you a Jew? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Lila9 said: Gaza isn't occupied by Israel; it's a fact. You can think what you want, but it doesn't change this fact. You are cherry-picking Jews you personally agree with to confirm your bias, which may be antisemitic. Just because a few Jews agree with what you think doesn't mean that you are correct. Only because a few women out of many, agree with certain misogynistic beliefs, doesn't mean that the men who hold these beliefs are not misogynists. Israel exists? Thats enough. Israel is, for them, the occupier of the arab world. That is the root of the argument. Everthing else - excuses and backward rationalisations. I gave up trying to argue with them with logical tools. The prefrontal cortex cannot solve the ancient brain's problems. For that they will have to give up their ego and recognize the validity of Israel's passions and fears too, and above all to recognize the root of the problem of the palestinians - their own self tyranni. To face their problem head on and not to project it onto Israel all the time. Edited November 29, 2023 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 Is the forum biased for jews? Most of my friends who are pro Palestine and they are also right wing at other times. This forum which was supposed to be left wing/green is pro israel. I think this is the only issue where people are not flocking on terms of their typical ideology. People of both sides support both Israel and Palestine. Very interesting. ---- In other news, Ethopia is all set to invade Eritrea and China is preparing to invade Taiwan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 4 minutes ago, Nivsch said: Israel exists? Thats enough. Israel is the occupier of the arab world. Thats is the root of the argument. Everthing else - excuses and backward rationalisations. I gave up trying to argue with them with logical tools. The prefrontal cortex cannot solve the ancient brain's problems. For that they will have to give up their ego and recognize the validity of Israel's passions and fears too, and above all to recognize the root of the problem of the palestinians - their own self tyranni. To face their problem head on and not to project it onto Israel all the time. Totally agree. "Never be afraid to sit a while and think.” ― Lorraine Hansberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 29, 2023 2 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said: Is the forum biased for jews? Most of my friends who are pro Palestine and they are also right wing at other times. This forum which was supposed to be left wing/green is pro israel. I think this is the only issue where people are not flocking on terms of their typical ideology. People of both sides support both Israel and Palestine. Very interesting. ---- In other news, Ethopia is all set to invade Eritrea and China is preparing to invade Taiwan. I‘m just against any form of extremism and also especially islamism Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
