Posted November 16, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, hundreth said: What Jewish minorities? There are barely any Jews living in Muslim nations today. Take a guess why. As a Jew, there are many Islamic nations I cannot even visit for fear of being attacked, kidnapped or arrested. A great illustration to show anybody who will again say how only the palestinians were "kicked out". But even then, that won't convince him because the argument is a spiral dynamics war and not logical. Edited November 16, 2023 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 16, 2023 1 hour ago, Twentyfirst said: Man I wish I had some cones Same.. 🤡 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 16, 2023 2 hours ago, Nivsch said: A great illustration to show anybody who will again say how only the palestinians were "kicked out". But even then, that won't convince him because the argument is a spiral dynamics war and not logical. Worry not my brother, Jews will be welcome everywhere once again with the return of the turquoise alpha. יְישַׁר כֹּחַ My stats: https://wiseoldman.net/players/equan1mity Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 16, 2023 14 hours ago, Lila9 said: Israel is making fun of BBC bias, so accurately 😂 Brilliant! 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 16, 2023 1 hour ago, Nabd said: Jews left to Israel after the creation of Israel which was encouraged by Israel and of course by the dictatorships so it was mutually beneficial. Lol "mutually beneficial." Nice way to hand waive away the persecution and ethnic cleansing of Jews who lived in those areas for thousands of years and were forced to leave behind their homes, culture, businesses, and wealth to start from scratch in a new area with a new language. Jordan was created in 1948 too. Wouldn't it be "mutually beneficial" if the Palestinians went there? The logic doesn't quite work when the script is flipped, eh? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 16, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, hundreth said: Lol "mutually beneficial." Nice way to hand waive away the persecution and ethnic cleansing of Jews who lived in those areas for thousands of years and were forced to leave behind their homes, culture, businesses, and wealth to start from scratch in a new area with a new language. Jordan was created in 1948 too. Wouldn't it be "mutually beneficial" if the Palestinians went there? The logic doesn't quite work when the script is flipped, eh? +1 ❤ Edited November 16, 2023 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 16, 2023 3 hours ago, Nabd said: Jews left to Israel after the creation of Israel which was encouraged by Israel and of course by the dictatorships so it was mutually beneficial. The expulsion of Jews from the Middle East is yet another example of how Arabs shoot themselves in the foot. The expulsion ended up being extremely beneficial for Israel as Middle Eastern Jews make up more than half of the population of Israel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 16, 2023 2 hours ago, hundreth said: Lol "mutually beneficial." Nice way to hand waive away the persecution and ethnic cleansing of Jews who lived in those areas for thousands of years and were forced to leave behind their homes, culture, businesses, and wealth to start from scratch in a new area with a new language. Jordan was created in 1948 too. Wouldn't it be "mutually beneficial" if the Palestinians went there? The logic doesn't quite work when the script is flipped, eh? It is sad how they had to just leave their homes. The tension and persecution was in reaction to Israel forming and the nakba taking place - didn't happen in a vacuum. Israel performed operation magic carpet in 1948 air lifting as many Jews to Israel. Wonder what she did.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 16, 2023 13 minutes ago, zazen said: It is sad how they had to just leave their homes. The tension and persecution was in reaction to Israel forming and the nakba taking place - didn't happen in a vacuum. Israel performed operation magic carpet in 1948 air lifting as many Jews to Israel. Nothing happens in a vacuum. Those Mizrahi Jews living there had less to do with Israel than Palestinians do with Hamas today. Those Mizrahi Jews had literally zero to do with Israel's formation, yet they were uprooted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 16, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, hundreth said: Nothing happens in a vacuum. Those Mizrahi Jews living there had less to do with Israel than Palestinians do with Hamas today. Those Mizrahi Jews had literally zero to do with Israel's formation, yet they were uprooted. Yes, the bottom line is that no side is totally innocent, neither in the past nor today, BUT there is one side who is far-far more problematic and this is not Israel. Edited November 16, 2023 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 16, 2023 6 hours ago, MuadDib said: Worry not my brother, Jews will be welcome everywhere once again with the return of the turquoise alpha. יְישַׁר כֹּחַ 😂😂😂😂😂 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 16, 2023 @hundreth what's your take on the Gaza war? My name is Victoria. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 16, 2023 Why is this man making a joke of himself? My name is Victoria. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 16, 2023 (edited) @Nabd I think you'll find it interesting to know that many Palestinians considered themselves Syrians before Israel, and referred to themselves as such. 'Palestinian' as a distinct national identity was only formed in reaction to the Jews settling the land. The reason Israel was established and not Palestine is because the Israelis had a clear identity and were very energetic about their goals. The Palestinians still had to figure out who they were in a sense. Before 1967, Arabs had full sovereignty on the West Bank and Gaza and yet there was no Palestine. Nor did the Palestinians demand sovereignty from the Egyptians and Jordanians. Jordan was basically a Palestinian state with a big Palestinian majority, they were just not the ruling elite. Edited November 16, 2023 by Vrubel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 16, 2023 (edited) @Vrubel So to be honest Israel has made a mistake when took over gaza and parts of the west bank which are not jerusalem and around the city. The other moves in 1967 were probably much more justified. Edited November 16, 2023 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 16, 2023 @Nivsch and Israel is doing a mistake by bombing Gaza. My name is Victoria. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 16, 2023 1 hour ago, Buck Edwards said: @hundreth what's your take on the Gaza war? I believe it's necessary to remove Hamas. Hamas is tormenting both Israelis and Palestinians by stealing aid, not holding elections, organizing attacks on civilians from both sides, etc. They are a non starter for peace negotiations in the region, and they've radicalized large swaths of the Gazan population. This requires a very invasive troops on the ground approach with a lot of ugly guerrilla warfare. It's not enough to take out the leaders, you need to uproot Hamas from the ground up and change the status quo. Because of how entangled Hamas is with the civilian population, it's really difficult to limit civilian casualties and collateral damage. The IDF's approach of air striking the region before sending ground troops in is reasonable if you're trying to reduce Israeli casualties, which they definitely are. This doesn't mean they're trying to indiscriminately kill Gazan civilians. I think this is an unfair claim, as there's a 1 to 1 air strike to civilian casualty ratio. If Israel's goal was to eliminate casualties, it wouldn't be this way. On the other hand, where you draw the line in terms of risking Israeli lives is a gray area and Its worth having this discussion. Do I believe that Israel is perfectly toeing the line between risking Israeli vs. Palestinian lives? No. Exercising caution is important here. I think Biden is actually doing a great job of walking this careful line. A ceasefire is not the answer here. If we begin a ceasefire before Hamas is eliminated, all of this damage, destruction, and lives lost will be for nothing. With all the pain and torment this saga has created, we should have some tangible difference here with a promise of change. The big question is, what comes next? After Israel removes Hamas and polices the area for a bit, where do we go? I think the U.N. will need to step in with a peacekeeping force and ensure aid, food and resources all go directly to the Palestinian people. I think if Palestinian lives slowly improve economically with mutually beneficial trade partnership with Israelis, these wounds will slowly heal and peace will become possible. From the Israeli side, Netanyahu's right wing government will need to be replaced with policies that prevent settler expansion, etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 16, 2023 1 hour ago, Nivsch said: @Vrubel So to be honest Israel has made a mistake when took over gaza and parts of the west bank which are not jerusalem and around the city. The other moves in 1967 were probably much more justified. After Israel took over those territories it was open to exchange them for peace and recognition. But the Arabs famously proclaimed the three no's of Khartoum, including no to peace. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 16, 2023 22 minutes ago, hundreth said: I believe it's necessary to remove Hamas. Hamas is tormenting both Israelis and Palestinians by stealing aid, not holding elections, organizing attacks on civilians from both sides, etc. They are a non starter for peace negotiations in the region, and they've radicalized large swaths of the Gazan population. This requires a very invasive troops on the ground approach with a lot of ugly guerrilla warfare. It's not enough to take out the leaders, you need to uproot Hamas from the ground up and change the status quo. Because of how entangled Hamas is with the civilian population, it's really difficult to limit civilian casualties and collateral damage. The IDF's approach of air striking the region before sending ground troops in is reasonable if you're trying to reduce Israeli casualties, which they definitely are. This doesn't mean they're trying to indiscriminately kill Gazan civilians. I think this is an unfair claim, as there's a 1 to 1 air strike to civilian casualty ratio. If Israel's goal was to eliminate casualties, it wouldn't be this way. On the other hand, where you draw the line in terms of risking Israeli lives is a gray area and Its worth having this discussion. Do I believe that Israel is perfectly toeing the line between risking Israeli vs. Palestinian lives? No. Exercising caution is important here. I think Biden is actually doing a great job of walking this careful line. A ceasefire is not the answer here. If we begin a ceasefire before Hamas is eliminated, all of this damage, destruction, and lives lost will be for nothing. With all the pain and torment this saga has created, we should have some tangible difference here with a promise of change. The big question is, what comes next? After Israel removes Hamas and polices the area for a bit, where do we go? I think the U.N. will need to step in with a peacekeeping force and ensure aid, food and resources all go directly to the Palestinian people. I think if Palestinian lives slowly improve economically with mutually beneficial trade partnership with Israelis, these wounds will slowly heal and peace will become possible. From the Israeli side, Netanyahu's right wing government will need to be replaced with policies that prevent settler expansion, etc. After all you've done you think peace is an option? Fuck. I think the Palestinians will only have hatred (and disgust) towards the Israel. They will forever be against each other to infinity. Both of them hate each other very much. . Not only Israel America too... 5:09PM 31Oct 2023. https://instagram.com/makkah__madinah?igshid=djdpNHVxZGY3MXNm Look at this stories. It's just chaotic. A lot of donation was made to them but it was for nothing. They are still in war. It was for nothing. Everything was for nothing. Middle east is for the Arab. Let it be for the Arab. I'm sure if the Egypt let Palestinians resides in the Sinai area and Palestine was given to the Israel, in the future Israel will even want to extend their land to Sinai too. (Because it's the prophets area/biblical.) And Egypt too would be non existent. You can't simply just change geography. 🇵🇸🇪🇬🇮🇱 I never seen a Palestinian flag was burned or step on to but Israel flag I've seen it a lot. So it create the image that Israel is the evil country. I don't see how it's gonna be solved. This : baitul maqdis They ARE HAMAS. THEY ARE ISRAEL. You can't get rid of them both. Palestinians are Hamas and Hamas is Palestinians. Israel is Israel. If you keep only the weakling then only the weaklings remains.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
