New War In Israel / Gaza

[Twentyfirst]

4 hours ago, Nivsch said:

I understand thats what you think.

I think differently.

Also you see victimhood and bravery in a different way than I am.

The Israeli soldiers who are risking their lives right now are probably also cowards according to this theory I guess.

Ok, everyone may think however they want.

Any bully is automatically a coward

[PurpleTree]

Here something cute

because the conflict isn’t cute it’s shite

 

[Scholar]

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/07/opinions/israel-hamas-gaza-not-war-crimes-spencer/index.html

 

On whether or not Israel is committing warcrimes.

[hundreth]

This is a really interesting conversation. Both of them express what they feel lies at the heart of the issue. 

IMO Korner is way less naive and realistic, focused on the big picture. Foster seems like he's living in fairy tale land.

[Hatfort]

Is not even fair to call war crimes what Israel is doing to Palestinians.

They are no less than war genocidal atrocities.

[hyruga]

 

[Leo Gura]

9 hours ago, Hatfort said:

They are no less than war genocidal atrocities.

They are less.

In a true genocide Israel would intentionally target civilians. You can't do a genocide by only going after Hamas.

The problem is not that they are doing genocide, it's that they are being too loose and careless when targetting Hamas. The Israeli policy is that if a bomb will kill 1 Hamas guy and 100 civilians, they drop the bomb. This loose standard is the problem.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Twentyfirst]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

They are less.

In a true genocide Israel would intentionally target civilians. You can't do a genocide by only going after Hamas.

The problem is not that they are doing genocide, it's that they are being too loose and careless when targetting Hamas. The Israeli policy is that if a bomb will kill 1 Hamas guy and 100 civilians, they drop the bomb. This loose standard is the problem.

If they cared so much about getting their hostages back like they claim then why drop careless bombs on Hamas? 

It's an ethnic cleansing because it started off as Palestinian land but now it's called "Israel"

Edited November 8, 2023 by Twentyfirst

[Leo Gura]

43 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

If they cared so much about getting their hostages back like they claim then why drop careless bombs on Hamas?

Because eliminating Hamas is more important than getting back the hostages.

As a political leader you cannot let the death of 250 people influence the big picture of your defense policy. If Israel does not properly defend itself 1000s more civilians will be killed by Hamas in the future. So that is the higher priority.

Quote

It's an ethnic cleansing because it started off as Palestinian land but now it's called "Israel"

It didn't start out as Palestinian land. It was land without a solid state of any kind, being part of various Middle Eastern powers and empires over the centuries.

Land cannot be "yours" unless you have built up a solid state to claim and defend it.

"Palestine" was never a properly defined state. And it still isn't today. Because it was never powerful enough to define itself. If you want to be able to have a state, you must be able to win a war. If you can't win a war then you don't get a state. That's the way things work. This is not kindergarten.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Sucuk Ekmek]

48 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

As a political leader you cannot let the death of 250 people influence the big picture of your defense policy. If Israel does not properly defend itself 1000s more civilians will be killed by Hamas in the future. So that is the higher priority.

 Your political leader is comedy, he is a political leader because he already let 1000 people die, doesn't matter which side anyways.

[Twentyfirst]

41 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Because eliminating Hamas is more important than getting back the hostages.

As a political leader you cannot let the death of 250 people influence the big picture of your defense policy. If Israel does not properly defend itself 1000s more civilians will be killed by Hamas in the future. So that is the higher priority

Makes sense 

41 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It didn't start out as Palestinian land. It was land without a solid state of any kind, being part of various Middle Eastern powers and empires over the centuries.

Thats the argument of the century

You can find people still alive today that were kicked out of the homes they were living in. I won't say kicked out of their land but we know for a fact out of their homes and sent away.

Jewish people weren't kicked out which makes it an ethnic cleansing. Sure it was in the past but when you see discussions today of certain European countries taking in Palestinian "refugees" you can't help but think the same thing is repeating itself 

They are only refugees after they are kicked out

41 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Land cannot be "yours" unless you have built up a solid state to claim and defend it.

Im not arguing that point. The frustration isn't just the stealing of land but the reasoning behind it. The guilt trip from 6 million jews dying, the story of how the land was promised to them and how they are sent from god, Palestinians are animals that need to be extinguished, we just want peace I promise, etc

If you could really just take someones land without anyone else batting an eye then you wouldn't need these ridiculous lies to keep the whole thing stringing along

41 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

"Palestine" was never a properly defined state. And it still isn't today. Because it was never powerful enough to define itself.

Definitions are in the eye of the beholder. Israel was defined by an outside entity aka the British. You don't have to agree with them you can just say I don't recognize Israel as a state. And if you do have to agree with them then after 1948 the proposal was a two state solution which was clearly defined and then Israel with help of USA slowly took over Palestine with settlements and occupations. 

41 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you want to be able to have a state, you must be able to win a war. If you can't win a war then you don't get a state. That's the way things work. This is not kindergarten.

May the best people win this 75 year war.

 

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

They are less.

In a true genocide Israel would intentionally target civilians. You can't do a genocide by only going after Hamas.

The problem is not that they are doing genocide, it's that they are being too loose and careless when targetting Hamas. The Israeli policy is that if a bomb will kill 1 Hamas guy and 100 civilians, they drop the bomb. This loose standard is the problem.

Leo but from where did you get the 1:100 ratio?

Because the estimated number of hamas terrorists who have been killed within the land of gaza strip is 3000-4000 according to IDF.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Nivsch

[_Archangel_]

@Leo Gura 

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The problem is not that they are doing genocide, it's that they are being too loose and careless when targetting Hamas. The Israeli policy is that if a bomb will kill 1 Hamas guy and 100 civilians, they drop the bomb. This loose standard is the problem.

Most war analyst agree that bombing isn't the most effective way to cancel Hamas.
The thing is, the way the operation are carried really make poeple wonder whether Israel wants to actrually destroy Hamas or intentionally kill civilians.

Best thing would probably have been  a decade-long agent infiltaration operation in the strip to slowly weaken them from the inside.
What they are basically doing right now is trying to get rid of a virus by physically hammering the computer to peaces.

So question is: Do the leaders of Israel want to actually help Palestinians but are too short-sighted and a-systemical to see that this  approach won't work, or they are actual snakes using the excuse of Hamas to kill as many palesinians as the world community would tolerate before intervining?


 

[Twentyfirst]

1 minute ago, _Archangel_ said:

@Leo Gura 

Most war analyst agree that bombing isn't the most effective way to cancel Hamas.
The thing is, the way the operation are carried really make poeple wonder whether Israel wants to actrually destroy Hamas or intentionally kill civilians.

Best thing would probably have been  a decade-long agent infiltaration operation in the strip to slowly weaken them from the inside.
What they are basically doing right now is trying to get rid of a virus by physically hammering the computer to peaces.

So question is: Do the leaders of Israel want to actually help Palestinians but are too short-sighted and a-systemical to see that this  approach won't work, or they are actual snakes using the excuse of Hamas to kill as many palesinians as the world community would tolerate before intervining?


 

Ahh the war on terror. Terrorists calling other terrorists terrorist 

[_Archangel_]

@Twentyfirst I don't know exacly what you mean, but to get things clear, yes Hamas is as bad for the well being of palesinians as Israel right wing fundamentalism is for the Israelis.

[Twentyfirst]

1 minute ago, _Archangel_ said:

@Twentyfirst I don't know exacly what you mean, but to get things clear, yes Hamas is as bad for the well being of palesinians as Israel right wing fundamentalism is for the Israelis.

Just highlighting the repetition of this all. It's always the same irony. They are bad terrorists now lets drop a bomb on them hahaha 

[Breakingthewall]

15 minutes ago, _Archangel_ said:

Best thing would probably have been  a decade-long agent infiltaration operation in the strip to slowly weaken them from the inside.
What they are basically doing right now is trying to get rid of a virus by physically hammering the computer to peaces.

Sure, But Israel not only wants to end Hamas, it also wants to show its many enemies that if attacked, it will respond with extreme harshness. If you live surrounded by enemies you cannot show weakness or softness.

[_Archangel_]

@Twentyfirst Got ya!

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

If you live surrounded by enemies you cannot show weakness or softness.

@Breakingthewall Sure, it's logical.

[Loveeee]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

In a true genocide Israel would intentionally target civilians.

 

[Nivsch]

@Loveeee No thats how your brain wants it to be.