New War In Israel / Gaza

[Nivsch]

8 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

But they don't care! The suffering of their people is just another weapon in their arsenal.

True.

[Raze]

8 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

Palestinian suffering, especially children, should be the more reason why Hamas should put down its arms and surrender. But they don't care! The suffering of their people is just another weapon in their arsenal. On the 6th Oct all was fine with their people. Yes it was! I have never seen a refugee home with a marble stairway before.

🎗️💙🇮🇱💙🎗️

By lella.cachia, comment under Times of Israel article

False, prior to oct 7 it was already the deadliest year for Palestinian children. 40% of Gazans were unemployed, many had malnutrition, and Israel wasn’t removing the blockade.

5 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

Hamas has lost this round and are trying to gain concessions from Israel more than they deserve. Israel stands fast. will not play 'games'. Real losers are the Gaza people. Destruction now or a miserable future under Hamas government. Pity'.

 

By immreiter, comment under Times of Israel article

Israel has lost many civilians and soldiers, hurt its economy, and damaged its national standing, this is not a good event for Israel either. You shouldn’t diminish their suffering to tout victory.

[Nivsch]

5 minutes ago, Raze said:

False, prior to oct 7 it was already the deadliest year for Palestinian children. 40% of Gazans were unemployed, many had malnutrition, and Israel wasn’t removing the blockade.

Because of hamas.

The Israeli-Egyptian border only prevents marine and air ways from Gazans.

Edited March 5 by Nivsch

[Nemra]

Hamas has successfully played Israel. They are making a fool of them. They want the world to see how ruthless Israel can be so that people perceive them as the "bad guy", regardless of whether they are right or wrong about Israel. Whether Hamas care about their people or not, it doesn't matter here.

Edited March 5 by Understander

[Nivsch]

9 minutes ago, Raze said:

Israel has lost many civilians and soldiers, hurt its economy, and damaged its national standing, this is not a good event for Israel either. You shouldn’t diminish their suffering to tout victory.

So lets not react at all and let the PTSD poison our society and destroy us from inside.

You are holding Israel to a tier 2 trauma management tools. How easy is to demand unrealistic expectations from the side you don't like.

Edited March 5 by Nivsch

[Raze]

 Oct 7 false claims analysis part 1

One IDF commander in Kfar Aza and Be'eri claimed to an i24 News reporter that 40 babies had been killed, out of what one estimate described as at least 100 civilian victims

source

But, only two babies are known to have died as a result of that attack, one from a bullet, the other shortly after birth in a hospital 

source

Zaka member Landua described finding a pregnant woman in Kibbutz Be’eri in a “big puddle of blood, face down.”

“Her stomach was butchered open,” Landau said. “The baby that was connected to the cord was stabbed.”

In Be’eri, he said, he also found a family who was tied up, tortured, and executed with a bullet to the back of the head: father, mother, and two small children around 6 or 7 years old. An eye was missing, fingers chopped off. Landau later told CNN, “The terrorists were having a ball,” with Palestinian militants devouring a holiday meal set out by the family. Landau broke down recounting the tale, as a CNN reporter comforted him.

source

however no proof was given of the butchered mother and fetus and Haaretz reporters conclude it didn’t happen 

source

no one killed in Be’eri matches Landau’s account of the tortured family either, 12 year old twins died when in a house fired on by a idf tank 

source

Landau was also the source of the beheaded children claim repeated by Joe Biden 

source

however there is currently no evidence of it and the idf haven’t confirmed it , Landau now denies claiming he saw beheaded children

The NYT reported a investigative report alleging hamas conducted mass rapes, the main example being Gal Abdush who it reported was raped and a video of her identified as “the woman in the black dress” went viral

source

however no such video exists and her family has stated she wasn’t raped

Edited March 5 by Raze

[Merkabah Star]

1 hour ago, Vrubel said:

Last night I wrote some heartful and thought-out peace and wisdom-oriented pieces on my phone to maybe share on this thread but seeing how it's further devolving into absolute toxicity I'd rather keep it for myself and not dishonor it by posting it here.

This is why I get accused of bias and for good reason. I'd rather be biased and express my admiration and defend Israel by standing up against the lies than dignify the uber-hypocrite, brainless and toxic menace that represents the other side.

Maybe start a journal thread? 

 

[Merkabah Star]

48 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

Palestinian suffering, especially children, should be the more reason why Hamas should put down its arms and surrender. But they don't care! The suffering of their people is just another weapon in their arsenal. On the 6th Oct all was fine with their people. Yes it was! I have never seen a refugee home with a marble stairway before.

🎗️💙🇮🇱💙🎗️

By lella.cachia, comment under Times of Israel article

It is difficult to respond to this type of post. 

 

[Vrubel]

@Nivsch I have reported @Raze Don't engage him. 

He knows what he is doing. We have standards.  

[Raze]

1 minute ago, Vrubel said:

@Nivsch I have reported @Raze Don't engage him. 

He knows what he is doing. We have standards.  

Reported for sourcing claims? 

[Thought Art]

@Nivsch Hey, I do respectfully suggest we don’t demonize news reports that are not favourable to Israel. The same should be true for news that isn’t favourable to Palestine. 
 

If something is true, like an event that happened and it’s being reported by news stations, and people on the ground in Gaza (many who are doctors from other nations) and to assume it’s lies is a problem in my opinion. If you simply deny and reject news you don’t like… it’s not adding to the thread. But, if you have proof something is false… that is different.

Edited March 5 by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

@Raze I don’t know what is true or what your goal is with sharing what you are sharing here. 
 

It seems to be offending some users though. Be mindful of that.

Edited March 5 by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

When you demonize, mock, belittle, lower, make stupid, project bad intentions on others who disagree with you… you are shutting yourself off to seeing the situation objectively. 
 

Please be wary of doing this. 

[Danioover9000]

@Thought Art

35 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

When you demonize, mock, belittle, lower, make stupid, project bad intentions on others who disagree with you… you are shutting yourself off to seeing the situation objectively. 
 

Please be wary of doing this. 

   100% Agree with this. Don't be too biased guys.

   Also interesting move by China to publicly support Palestine's right to defend itself:

 

[Danioover9000]

@Vrubel

1 hour ago, Vrubel said:

@Nivsch I have reported @Raze Don't engage him. 

He knows what he is doing. We have standards.  

   I'm sorry, where in the forum guidelines does it say it's an offence to share sources, facts, evidence, and data to support your posts and assertions made?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi_mKzxj96EAxXoUUEAHUmsCOAQFnoECA0QAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.actualized.org%2Fforum%2Fguidelines%2F&usg=AOvVaw1d9hk08qnMoJp_e5gPMcEd&opi=89978449

Can you show me and others what specific grounds you have for reporting @Raze's post here:

2 hours ago, Raze said:

 Oct 7 false claims analysis part 1

One IDF commander in Kfar Aza and Be'eri claimed to an i24 News reporter that 40 babies had been killed, out of what one estimate described as at least 100 civilian victims

source

But, only two babies are known to have died as a result of that attack, one from a bullet, the other shortly after birth in a hospital 

source

Zaka member Landua described finding a pregnant woman in Kibbutz Be’eri in a “big puddle of blood, face down.”

“Her stomach was butchered open,” Landau said. “The baby that was connected to the cord was stabbed.”

In Be’eri, he said, he also found a family who was tied up, tortured, and executed with a bullet to the back of the head: father, mother, and two small children around 6 or 7 years old. An eye was missing, fingers chopped off. Landau later told CNN, “The terrorists were having a ball,” with Palestinian militants devouring a holiday meal set out by the family. Landau broke down recounting the tale, as a CNN reporter comforted him.

source

however no proof was given of the butchered mother and fetus and Haaretz reporters conclude it didn’t happen 

source

no one killed in Be’eri matches Landau’s account of the tortured family either, 12 year old twins died when in a house fired on by a idf tank 

source

Landau was also the source of the beheaded children claim repeated by Joe Biden 

source

however there is currently no evidence of it and the idf haven’t confirmed it , Landau now denies claiming he saw beheaded children

The NYT reported a investigative report alleging hamas conducted mass rapes, the main example being Gal Abdush who it reported was raped and a video of her identified as “the woman in the black dress” went viral

source

however no such video exists and her family has stated she wasn’t raped

   Main reason why I ask is I have PTSD when it comes to reporting, it's annoying to deal with in this forum, so we have to make sure the reasoning is solid and valid, otherwise other users will abuse the report function and we all hold each other accountable here.

Edited March 5 by Danioover9000

[Danioover9000]

   Very tense exchange between Journalist and USA department guy:

 

[Vrubel]

For anyone wondering the reporting was for atrocity denial. It’s a dirty and highly dishonest agenda-driven game. But also unfortunately nothing surprising understanding the mentality of these people.
If you would really care about truth and “sourcing” you’d watch the public videos and photos or at least inform yourself of the existing material including footage that is so traumatizing it’s only shown to officials and journalists. You can read their notes. But really the public stuff is already bad enough. 

It's also totally in your right to not do any of those things but then just shut up, you have no right to do your downplaying, revisionism and denial. 

Edited March 5 by Vrubel

[Thought Art]

@Vrubel The attack on Israel as far as I can tell is well documented. I don’t know why he is questioning it. 
 

 

[Thought Art]

 

[Raze]

1 hour ago, Thought Art said:

@Vrubel The attack on Israel as far as I can tell is well documented. I don’t know why he is questioning it. 

 

2 hours ago, Vrubel said:

For anyone wondering the reporting was for atrocity denial. It’s a dirty and highly dishonest agenda-driven game. But also unfortunately nothing surprising understanding the mentality of these people.
If you would really care about truth and “sourcing” you’d watch the public videos and photos or at least inform yourself of the existing material including footage that is so traumatizing it’s only shown to officials and journalists. You can read their notes. But really the public stuff is already bad enough. 

It's also totally in your right to not do any of those things but then just shut up, you have no right to do your downplaying, revisionism and denial. 

I am not downplaying or denying the attack, I am posting sources that many specific claims do not have proof or have been debunked. If I’m wrong you can quote specifically which one is.

I’m questioning it because many of the claims that many still take at face value have been disputed or still haven’t had proof presented, this is important because exaggerating war crimes has historically been used to justify greater military action.

Edited March 6 by Raze