Posted February 17 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Yousif said: this is a pure example of human selfishness and bias, as long as we are safe, fuck everyone else around us. I don’t really know how I would be able to go on living knowing I ruthlessly selfish/ biased/ vicious, and inhumane, i guess that explains why people ignore the facts as if they don’t exist. This is how it seems when you don't understand Israel's long accumulated traumas and the fact that the existential threat for Israel frpm Iran's proxies is real and we have to take the other side's intentions seriously. Edited February 17 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 17 3 minutes ago, Yousif said: this is a pure example of human selfishness and bias, as long as we are safe, fuck everyone else around us. I don’t really know how I would be able to go on living knowing I ruthlessly selfish/ biased/ vicious, and inhumane, i guess that explains why people ignore the facts as if they don’t exist. Fell free to suggest something different than eliminating Hamas Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 17 3 minutes ago, Nivsch said: This is a goal that has tried to be avoided so many time during the last 2 decades and tried to be managed in every way possible. You speak as if things are out of your hand, I understand that you can not control what your government do and how the people feel, but I’m speaking to you personally, do you support what your government is doing?? Do you really think this was is the right course of action and it couldn’t be avoided? I personally would feel ashamed if my country and my people choose to eradicate a whole country out of fear, I wouldn’t spend a minute of this forum trying to convince everyone that we’re the good guys and they’re the bad guys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 17 1 minute ago, Thought Art said: @Yousif Maybe, but safety and health is the most valuable thing humans have. When a group like Hamas kills thousands, and then the leader of Palestine shows support of the actions… It’s not clear to me, what a proper response to that is. Humans lives are valuable on both ends. Hamas killed many innocent. Now, Israel is killing more innocent, to kill Hamas for killing the innocent. Why did Hamas kill innocent Israeli? What is the history here? So you’re telling me when Justin Trudeau supports a Canadian terrorist group, it’s okay for the us to bomb you and your family??! I’m not defending hamas or the president of Palestine, I just want you to know before supporting any side that you’re supporting the killing of innocent people, the more you support the more innocent lives die because you wanna feel safe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 17 7 minutes ago, Nivsch said: This is how it seems when you don't understand Israel's long accumulated traumas and the fact the existential threat is real and we have to take the other side's intentions seriously. When you’re traumatized, the best course of action is not to lash out, you’re supposed to be grounded, go have a therapy session or do some psychedelics, I heard they help with trauma, don’t take it out on people who had nothing to do with it, you will only make things worse that way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 17 @Yousif The sum damage could definitely be lower. But the casualities I think not. I do not support the exaggerated material damage. But again you must see the equation from both sides what you refuses to do. 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 17 3 minutes ago, Nivsch said: @Yousif The sum damage could definitely be lower. But the casualities I think not. I do not support the exaggerated material damage. But again you must see the equation from both sides what you refuses to do. You gotta accept that you cannot justify killing innocent people, no amount of justification will help you because as a human being I assume you have a conscience, I see it from both sides, but you’ve been here everyday defending only one side, you may not have the control of what your government does, but at least you don’t have to support them in what they do, maybe that will make them stop, but you do want hamas to be eliminated even if that means killing millions of ( them). I understand, you’re scared and you would rather them be scared and die and not you, but I do believe you could’ve gotten rid of hamas in a better way than bombing the whole city. In the end, what you give is what you get. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 17 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Thought Art said: No, I didn’t say anything like that. I didn’t say anything was okay. I am trying to see people’s perspectives. I can want hamas to be eliminated, while at the same time keep civilians and innocent lives from dying, but my bro here keep justifying the killing of innocent people. there are many ways you could’ve eliminated Hamas. They way they reacted was the same as the U.S. on 9/11 and the whole iraq war, complete lashing out and unconscious reaction to what happened. Edited February 17 by Yousif Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 17 45 minutes ago, Thought Art said: @Nivsch Okay, I don’t know the truth. It’s almost impossible to see what is really going on. Israel stole Palestine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 17 @Yousif Suggest a better way to eliminate hamas. 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 17 Here is what happened in a smaller and at an individual scale, there’s a guy in school , after you bullied him for years, one day lashes at you and slaps the shit out of you, you’re shocked, because all of the school saw what happened and that really hurt your ego, so what you did is or what you’re trying to do, is go find him at his house, proceed to kill his little sister and brother and justify it because they were in your way, and you’ll keep killing all of his family members until he shows up and you can get your revenge, oh I forgot they you burnt and bombed their house as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 17 Just now, Nivsch said: @Yousif Suggest a better way to eliminate hamas. Hamas is a resistance group. Resisting tyranny. They really didn't do that much damage Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 17 (edited) 1 minute ago, Nivsch said: @Yousif Suggest a better way to eliminate hamas. Let’s assume there’s no other way, is that enough reason for you to take civilians and innocent lives? Edited February 17 by Yousif Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 17 1 minute ago, Yousif said: Here is what happened in a smaller and at an individual scale, there’s a guy in school , after you bullied him for years, one day lashes at you and slaps the shit out of you, you’re shocked, because all of the school saw what happened and that really hurt your ego, so what you did is or what you’re trying to do, is go find him at his house, proceed to kill his little sister and brother and justify it because they were in your way, and you’ll keep killing all of his family members until he shows up and you can get your revenge, oh I forgot they you burnt and bombed their house as well. If the people in his house didn’t tell you where he is or got in your way, is that enough reason for you to kill them, if so then you’re a murderer . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 17 (edited) I have decided to no longer comment on such things on public forums. Anything I say will be misinterpreted. My ignorance here, is too great. The risk of speaking about it too high. Edited February 17 by Thought Art "Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver ◭"89"◮ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 17 @Nivsch we see your point of view but it still doesn’t justify what’s happening, but you refuse to see ours, instead you’re here everyday justifying murder, and last I checked if you kill someone that didn’t do anything to you, it counts as murder and crime, yet you keep on justifying it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 17 11 minutes ago, Thought Art said: I have decided to no longer comment on such things on public forums. Anything I say will be misinterpreted. My ignorance here, is too great. The risk of speaking about it too high. Things feel different when they get personal don’t they? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 17 As one of my fav people to listen to which happened to be a jew ( ram dass) used to say, “ “as long as there’s a “us” and a “them” you’re stuck, nothing you say or do will be of any good to anybody,not even yourself “ he didn’t say it exactly like this but this is basically what he said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 17 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Yousif said: Things feel different when they get personal don’t they? No, they get different speaking to people who misinterpret and demonize you. Like you did. If there is no “Us” and no “them” Why are you demonizing me for trying to see the perspectives of all of us? Then, you moralize to me about my personal biases, which I wasn’t sharing to begin with. That’s no a fair or conscious way to communicate in the way I have tried to do. No one likes when bad things happen to them. That is essentially universal. So, when you ask me “what if a bad thing happened to you how would YOU feel?!” You miss the whole point of what I’m trying to do. Which, is scary to me and I realize it’s not worth it. Because we aren’t running the same operating system. What you say changes nothing, because I already understand that. Speaking to you reminds me of how hard it is to communicate with other humans who twist your words. Whether on purpose or not. My goal is to understand this conflict, and all conflicts in general. I want to understand human bias, and selfishness. To do this I have to try to see the perspectives of everyone involved. I have learned that trying to share my understanding of other peoples perspectives leads people to accuse me of justifying their actions. To see how someone else justifies their actions, not me justifying their actions. I will continue to contemplate and try to see clearly what is happening, admitting when I’m wrong, allowing my mind to deepen. But, I’ve realized to do it in private. Because of people who act like you. Edited February 17 by Thought Art "Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver ◭"89"◮ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 17 8 minutes ago, Thought Art said: No, they get different speaking to people who misinterpret and demonize you. Like you did. If there is no “Us” and no “them” Why are you demonizing me for trying to see the perspectives of all of us? Then, you moralize to me about my personal biases, which I wasn’t sharing to begin with. That’s no a fair or conscious way to communicate in the way I have tried to do. No one likes when bad things happen to them. That is essentially universal. So, when you ask me “what if a bad thing happened to you how would YOU feel?!” You miss the whole point of what I’m trying to do. Which, is scary to me and I realize it’s not worth it. Because we aren’t running the same operating system. What you say changes nothing, because I already understand that. Speaking to you reminds me of how hard it is to communicate with other humans who twist your words. Whether on purpose or not. My goal is to understand this conflict, and all conflicts in general. I want to understand human bias, and selfishness. To do this I have to try to see the perspectives of everyone involved. But, I’ve realized to do it in private. Because of people who act like you. How did I demonize you? all I did was I switched the countries that are at play and the players so it feelz personal, because when things are personal how people judge a situation changes, like you might be okay with bullying at your school but when they start bullying you it starts to become a problem. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
