Posted January 30 @Karmadhi Israel didn’t choose this war. In this war there is only loss Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Heaven said: Israel didn’t choose this war. In this war there is only loss They did not actively start it but decades of bad policy and constant abuse of Palestinian people caused it. Unless you admit Israeli decade long policies are one of the main causes for the attack, then you are not seeing the full picture. I feel sorry for the civilians that got killed but the Israeli state has part of the responsibility. If you keep kicking someone, do not be surprised when he eventually lashes out at you uncontrollably . Hamas is also to blame for choosing the wrong way of helping the Palestinian cause. I dislike that Israeli pro people never admit their policies are a big factor that lead to this attack. Edited January 30 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Karmadhi said: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68006607 This is WW2 level destruction at this point. Again you speak nonsense.. WW2 is considered The Most Destructive War in history. much of Europe and Asia, and parts of Africa, lay in ruins. Combat and bombing had flattened cities and towns, destroyed bridges and railroads, and scorched the countryside. The war had also taken a staggering toll in both military and civilian lives. Over 75,000,000 casualties. Edited January 30 by Heaven Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Heaven said: Again you speak nonsense.. WW2 75,000,000 casualties. 1. If you want to use numbers for comparison, more than 20X civilians have died by the IDF than by Hamas. 800 civilians compared to 25.000. And that 25.000 will increase more. 2. I was talking about destruction to a dense urban area. Wiping entire cities out of the map. So Gaza is basically how WW2 destruction was in terms of intensity of destruction of a specific big urban area. I am not saying the whole world got destroyed. It is not rocket science... Edited January 30 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Karmadhi said: 1. If you want to use numbers for comparison, more than 20X civilians have died by the IDF than by Hamas. 800 civilians compared to 25.000. And that 25.000 will increase more. 2. I was talking about destruction to a dense urban area. Wiping entire cities out of the map. 1. You can’t compare between a terror organization and IDF. Israel has innocent civilians held hostage in Gaza until they will be released, this war will continue. The idea behind a country is to serve their citizens. Nobody will live in Israel if they wouldn’t do anything in their power to eliminate any threat and respect the life of their citizens. And your numbers are wrong(I guess purposely to prove your point.) 2. Lol Edited January 30 by Heaven Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30 35 minutes ago, Heaven said: And your numbers are wrong(I guess purposely to prove your point.) Which ones? Israel admitted 800 civilians dead and 400 soliders. Google it yourself. 36 minutes ago, Heaven said: 2. Lol Lol because Israel has barely any material damage, barely anyone lost their home. Lol when your whole city gets razed to the ground. Shamless... 36 minutes ago, Heaven said: The idea behind a country is to serve their citizens. "My rights end where your begin" is a famous quote. Trying to save 100 people by murdering 25.000 is not the answer. Also, I am sure Hamas would let those hostages go if Israel gave e permanent ceasefire. Israel cares about destroying Hamas more than about saving the hostages. Also, do not ignore my previous thread. I will paste it here to make it easy for you. My response to the statement: "Israel did not choose to start this war". "They did not actively start it but decades of bad policy and constant abuse of Palestinian people caused it. Unless you admit Israeli decade long policies are one of the main causes for the attack, then you are not seeing the full picture. I feel sorry for the civilians that got killed but the Israeli state has part of the responsibility. If you keep kicking someone, do not be surprised when he eventually lashes out at you uncontrollably . Hamas is also to blame for choosing the wrong way of helping the Palestinian cause. I dislike that Israeli pro people never admit their policies are a big factor that lead to this attack". Since I agreed that Palestinians civilians, a part of them do indeed support Hamas and totally hate Israel to the point of wanting to kill civilians, you can at least admit that Israel is partly reponsible for the attacks happening because of their horrible multi decade long oppressive policies towards Palestinians. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 31 1 hour ago, Merkabah Star said: People also denied the holocaust..So? @Karmadhi More than 200k Israel citizens had to evacuate their homes since 10/07. You can see footage of the kibbutzs how it looks like..burnt to the ground. What policies? Donate funds monthly? Accepting workers daily? Giving up military forces in all areas? please show me a good reason for someone to kidnap babies and elderly people. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 31 Here is some footage of the damage done to Israeli homes on October 7th. @Karmadhi https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/1698077342-the-most-well-documented-massacre-in-history Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 31 8 hours ago, Merkabah Star said: Intuitively feels here even better to the Palestinians. 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 31 On 29/01/2024 at 10:01 PM, Heaven said: @Leo Gura I remember you posted why the cemeteries in Gaza were destroyed..Here is the answer. source: https://www.foxnews.com/world/israeli-forces-destroy-hamas-tunnel-system-built-under-cemetery-idf-says.amp Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 31 (edited) 15 hours ago, Heaven said: The borders won’t change and there won’t be a declaration of a Palestinian country. You can’t reward a kid for bad behavior. The framing from Zionists is that Israel is rewarding Palestinians something rather than returning something they have a right to by international law. It isn't a gift Israel is giving because their so moral and noble but a right of return. Even the UK are now working towards that as Karmadi noted. As far as Hamas are concerned - they aren't the sole reason or root cause of the conflict, but a natural outcome of conflict that arises from Israels denial of Palestinian self determination and dignity. 15 hours ago, Merkabah Star said: @Nivsch @Karmadhi Interesting discussion about the state borders. I think besides the borders and structure of the state whats also important are the contents of it. Such as security controls, is it militarized or not, is there Israeli presence within it, and the settlement issue is a big one as we can see in the map above. The settlements make it logistically impossible to have a state because of the way they are spread across the land. It encircles Palestinian land making them like ghettos, pockets or like swiss cheese with holes in it. No continuous land area to run a state within, transport goods and services or people, or have ease of access to resources. Would these settlements remain in the protection of Israel? Because that isn't a proper Palestinian state then but an occupation as is already the case. Edited January 31 by zazen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 31 @zazen You’re another example of how delusional someone can be by watching misinformation content. It’s extremely hard work to explain you how further you’re from the truth Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 31 (edited) @zazen It can be simply (though costy, but absolutely possible) fixed by bridges and tunnels. Edited January 31 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 31 16 hours ago, Heaven said: Here is some footage of the damage done to Israeli homes on October 7th. @Karmadhi https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/1698077342-the-most-well-documented-massacre-in-history I am not saying there is NO damage in Israel at all, but it is a drop in the ocean compared to Gaza. How many buildings were damaged or destroyed? In Gaza it is close to 150.000 so far. Tell me Israeli ones? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 31 (edited) 17 hours ago, Heaven said: What policies? Donate funds monthly? Accepting workers daily? Giving up military forces in all areas? please show me a good reason for someone to kidnap babies and elderly people. Well the whole area around Gaza is illegally occupied by Israel since 1948. The UN border of Israel and Palestine does not include those areas that Hamas attacked as Israel land. So by default the people there feel like those specific areas are stolen land. Also, who put people in Gaza and blocked them? Not allowing even an airport, controling water/electricity and fuel? Who killed just in 2014 close to 2000 civilians, 500 childreen while Israel faced close to 0 civilian casuaties. Israel first put those people in a big prison after kicking them from their homes. Secondly, every few years it carpet bombs it killing thousands of civilians and lastly it denies them any sort of human rights or rights of indepedent state. These are the policies I talk about So when those people rebel and come to wipe you out, do not insert the surprised picachu face. Those Hamas terrorists are the people that lost loved ones because of Israeli carpet bombing. Perhaps not killing their relatives would have not given them the hatred necessary to butcher them on October 7th. Hatred and terrorism happen as a result of bad policies, they do not appear out of thin air. You need to understand this before just calling people "evil". I do not know why it is so hard for you Pro Israelis to comprehend that grave historical injustices can cause people to lash out and do horrible things . It is not a coincidence. Beat up someone enough and he will loose his humanity. And this is just Gaza, West Bank has its own long list of abuses which I do not want to start writing here for length reasons. Edited January 31 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 31 4 hours ago, zazen said: The settlements make it logistically impossible to have a state because of the way they are spread across the land. It encircles Palestinian land making them like ghettos, pockets or like swiss cheese with holes in it. No continuous land area to run a state within, transport goods and services or people, or have ease of access to resources. Would these settlements remain in the protection of Israel? Because that isn't a proper Palestinian state then but an occupation as is already the case. I have the same thought, it is like an archipelago. Ideally they should be returned to Palestine and make a long continuous line. I mean they are illegal from what I could understand so why keep them? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 31 @Karmadhi you have a talent of sticking to misinformation and exaggerating each side with your own biases. I’ll try my best to correct your “facts” but I think it will take some hard work from your side. Israel occupied Gaza in 1967 following a war(Yea it’s something that can happen when you’re being attacked) returned it back afterwards. Obviously there are no Israelis in Gaza.(Except bodies and kidnapped babies, women and men). Gaza did have an airport but lost it due to terror attacks in Israel. A Palestinian state won’t be different than Lebanon/Syria/Iran. Does the world need another one? I don’t think so. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 31 @Heaven This thread is so wise with you on it. 😁 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
