Posted January 29 (edited) To be honest I saw some pretty disturbing footage of Israel brutality in Gaza last few days and I have to say the amount of war crimes Israel is committing in Gaza is absolutely insane for 2024 standards. We should be above this, come on guys. I am quite disappointed how Israeli public is supporting this at large. It looks to me like those Black Mirror episodes where the mob justice is so brutal and ruthless to the point where they have created the same evil that attacked them. I would expect sensible Israelis to try to force the government to lower the violence, not double down on it. I mean at this point they are not becoming much more different from Palestinians that celebrated October 7th attacks. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/right-wing-israeli-ministers-join-thousands-event-calling-countrys-res-rcna135863 This also does not help the situation either for the post war region. And I have said similar things to pro Palestine people that I know in real life, that celebrating the October 7th attack was wrong. It is just that here in this thread, we got nobody that would consider it acceptable for Palestinians to celebrate that attack. Just clarifying it before I get accused for being biased and tolerating Palestinians again... Edited January 29 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 29 (edited) @Leo Gura I remember you posted why the cemeteries in Gaza were destroyed..Here is the answer. source: https://www.foxnews.com/world/israeli-forces-destroy-hamas-tunnel-system-built-under-cemetery-idf-says.amp Edited January 29 by Heaven Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 29 @Karmadhi Is it the first time that you saw a war? Did you ever think maybe you’re getting it all wrong? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 29 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Heaven said: Is it the first time that you saw a war? This is the second war I watch because social media is a big thing now. I also saw some clips from ukranian war but saw no near the amount of human carnage, dead kids, pieces of arms/legs, shooting civilians etc. It seemed much more of a conventional war between soldiers and destroyed buildings by what I saw. This one seems as a total massacre. So never have I seen such graphic images. 11 minutes ago, Heaven said: Did you ever think maybe you’re getting it all wrong? The videos and clips I saw are quite legit. They show insane amount of human suffering, especially of childreen which no sane person should endorse. But educate me please about what I am getting all wrong? Edited January 29 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30 11 hours ago, zazen said: @Nivsch Celebrating injustice is sick and wrong. I think what people mean when they celebrated was that they are celebrating the liberation of breaking free from being caged in by Israel - not the deaths and massacring that Hamas were doing that they were unaware of at the time. They are just so backed into a corner that after the Jews invaded and stole everything in 48 and harassing since then it's almost impossible for anyone to remain nonviolent. This entire thread debating things would be thrown out the window if anyone on here (mostly soft 1st world people lets be honest) lost their country status, land, family, job, gaslit and traumatized for 75 years with no hope out they would react just as bad if not worse. The entire Israeli argument is just silly because it is all predicated on "I should be able to destroy generations your people for a century and you shouldn't feel the need to fight back" Do you see the carnage and utter barbarism from Israel since October 7th because they lost a thousand people? So what happened when you fuck with people for an entire century they will become barbaric towards you If they feel they have no hope or future and killing Jews is the only way to escape that cage then the only way to get to that celebration point would be to kill Jews. Just like the only way for an Israeli to feel comfortable is by taking other peoples land and blaming it all on them. Everyone has their copes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30 OSHO: What Is Happening In Israel Is Nothing New أشهد أن لا إله إلا الله وأشهد أن ليو رسول الله Translation: I bear witness that there is no God but Allah, and Leo [Gura] is the messenger of Allah. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30 17 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said: Giving them complete Sovereignty would be a mistake since it threatens the security of Israel. Israel needs to exist first. Even for you to criticize it, it has to exist first. Giving away the occupied places is giving away control of land of great strategic value. It's a complicated scenario. How much is Israel's occupation balancing security and oppression? I don't know. But I wouldn't demand complete liberation of occupied territories. So Israel security takes priority over Palestinian freedom? How unbiased of you... We can easily flip the script on it and say Palestinian state should come even at expense of Isarel security. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30 (edited) @Twentyfirst If I put aside the whole process you described which is highly delusional to my opinion and far light years from the empirical truth. Still, if we say theoretically your picture was right, the Palestinians have right now, anyway, a very significant potential ground area in the west bank to their countless times offered state, and if we add Gaza to that (of after the war) we get quite good area to their state, in which the Jew minority can live peacefully with them at least on the paper, realistically they will in high chance be in danger. Central Israel is actually identical to this area if not narrower. I will add a map to here. Then what is the point of the killing and raping? I cutted the desert which isn't not important but most Israelis are rarely there (2 to 3 weeks of a year on average) and the quality of the ground is not nearly as good. To be fair I add the detailed west bank map too in which we can see when the Jew minority will live (purple spots). Edited January 30 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30 (edited) @Nivsch You’re too kind.. @Twentyfirst This is an example of a person that is justifying rape, kidnapping of babies and murder of the innocent. Your mind is too twisted to have a single rational thought so I would not take the time to explain how far you’re from the truth. Edited January 30 by Heaven Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30 (edited) @Heaven I write this also for the other passive readers here 😁 Edited January 30 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30 (edited) 1 hour ago, Heaven said: This is an example of a person that is justifying rape, kidnapping of babies and murder of the innocent. Your mind is too twisted to have a single rational thought so I would not take the time to explain how far you’re from the truth. I mean you also justify IDF atrocities so you are not much different. How exactly are you better than him? At least call IDF brutality out if you want to be seen objective. Scale wise IDF is way worse also (in terms of people dying because of each side). Personally I call out both Hamas and IDF atrocities, you seem only to call out Hamas. Fine by me, but do not start calling out people for doing the same thing that you do, just for the other side. Edited January 30 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30 1 hour ago, Nivsch said: If I put aside the whole process you described which is highly delusional to my opinion and far light years from the empirical truth. Still, if we say theoretically your picture was right, the Palestinians have right now, anyway, a very significant potential ground area in the west bank to their countless times offered state, and if we add Gaza to that (of after the war) we get quite good area to their state, in which the Jew minority can live peacefully with them at least on the paper, realistically they will in high chance be in danger. Central Israel is actually identical to this area if not narrower. I will add a map to here. Then what is the point of the killing and raping? I cutted the desert which isn't not important but most Israelis are rarely there (2 to 3 weeks of a year on average) and the quality of the ground is not nearly as good. To be fair I add the detailed west bank map too in which we can see when the Jew minority will live (purple spots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Israel#/media/File:UN_Partition_Plan_For_Palestine_1947.png Dont you think this would be the most fair split? It is the one UN agreed upon in 1947 when Israel was first founded. I am curious about your opinion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30 4 minutes ago, Karmadhi said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Israel#/media/File:UN_Partition_Plan_For_Palestine_1947.png Dont you think this would be the most fair split? It is the one UN agreed upon in 1947 when Israel was first founded. I am curious about your opinion. No, because if you don't count the desert, Israel has in 1947 map much smaller area than the Palestinians. 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Nivsch said: No, because if you don't count the desert, Israel has in 1947 map much smaller area than the Palestinians. But they are rich and capable of turning a desert into thriving area. Also USA/EU can support them. UAE is desert and still doing great. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine#/media/File:UN_Palestine_Partition_Versions_1947.jpg Does seem quite decent to me, Israel seems bigger. Edited January 30 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30 2 hours ago, Nivsch said: I add the detailed west bank map too in which we can see when the Jew minority will live (purple spots). That’s not really how small the settlements are. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30 @Merkabah Star Scary@Merkabah Star Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30 The borders won’t change and there won’t be a declaration of a Palestinian country. You can’t reward a kid for bad behavior. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30 4 minutes ago, Heaven said: The borders won’t change and there won’t be a declaration of a Palestinian country. You can’t reward a kid for bad behavior. Neither should Israel be rewarded for its devilry. Palestine needs a country more than ever, even most Western Media is saying it including US/UK. Just Israeli right wing are against it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 30 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68006607 This is WW2 level destruction at this point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
