Posted January 27 (edited) 12 hours ago, StarStruck said: Of course you could be unbiased.. if you wanted it and opened your eyes. No such a thing. You have a goal and an emotion behind this "opened your eyes". Say for a second we try to cut off our emotions and be only rational, firstly what will happen is that after 2 seconds your mind will say "no way, I am not a robot" and quit it. But say you could be only rational, then you see the truth most clearly right? Wrong. The logical mind is thousands times slower in its capacity hold information, and actually these are emotions that hide much more information in them in the subconscious mind. The only way to be "objective" about this conflict is to have another bias which isn't one of the sides but rather a more elevated one like unity, love, caring for the whole system's long term health etc. But even then, when one of the sides seems in your opinion to hinder or go against this goal then you will judge it. But you are entangled in this, and when you do this you participate in this. Then you will have to surrender and understand better the other side's motives and be more balanced for example in how you divide the responsibility to the situation between the sides. But then you might feel you are again too neutral and you will resist it and want to be more active again. This is an ever growing up process involving emotions and biases all the time. Edited January 27 by Nivsch 🌲 You can rarely pretend to give an effective advice to someone just from the fact that you cannot see the unique inner logic behind his actions, no matter how obvious you will mistakenly think the answer is. If you really want to help and not to harm, encourage him to trust more his own logic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 27 (edited) 17 hours ago, Danioover9000 said: @zazen What do you think is the probability of Israel disobeying the ICJ ruling, or not? If they're found guilty of genocidal intent? Probably will (disobey) already have. The response has been the usual remarks by some of the government - anti-Semitic and mockery. Ben Gvir tweeted Hague Schmague - pariah state behaviour. A lot of pro-Israeli media have tried spinning it as a win lol that just because the court didn’t order a ceasefire the case is bogus, but they omit everything else including that a plausible case for genocide has been made and all the orders are in effect a ceasefire - just not in name. Guessing the system (ICJ) didn’t want to stand up too straight against Western empire and give South Africa the complete win - they spared them complete embarrassment, gave a off-ramp, and probably saved themselves in the process too. On a more technical note some have said ceasefire implies two warring militarised states which isn’t the case so the term wasn’t applied. I’m no longer frustrated when talking to avid Zionists because like fish in the sea, they are submerged in the propaganda of their state which has seeped into them like microplastics in water. The danger this presents is that they can go on as usual by the false propaganda their state dishes out to them which causes a moral hazard. If made to believe all is okay and they don’t police their hate inciting language they ultimately self own themselves. Maybe we can’t even lay blame to them similar to how we can’t always lay blame to children with poor parenting - which in this case is that US has parented their child and baby, the 51st state of the US otherwise known as Israel. What we see is the result of 7 decades of impunity and no accountability manifestly on display that makes anyone suffer from 2nd degree embarrassment from watching the delusion, denial and distortion. I don’t say this with glee but with worry for their own image to the world and for them to continue business as usual which Palestinians suffer from and which doesn’t help regional peace. I think the only chance of them stopping is US and Western power pressuring them / not enabling them further. Spin doctor: Edward speaking out. Will the White House show a white heart or a black one in their response at the next resolutions. Edited January 27 by zazen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 27 @zazen Snowden is on point here. Even though I can see Israel's side, it's hard to disagree with him. US is mental when it comes to defending itself after getting caught red handed in crimes. It acts as the defacto human rights police but complicit in enforcing itself to such standards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 27 @zazen 4 hours ago, zazen said: True. I think another aspect is that the biases we see from the 'other' side can lead to frustration to the point each side will want to share isolated events which can help pop the other sides bubble and let them see that its not that they have biases, but that biases actually have them completely imprisoned. Similar to the fact that its not that people have routines or power but that routines and power have them as their servants. ie the guy who feels he can't get his day started without his 3 hour biohacking routine and anything missed ruins his day, or so he thinks lol. If a isolated event is stark enough and individualized it can be a powerful tool at exposing our biases. When we hear large numbers like 10'000 dead it doesn't impact the same way seeing a named face who has dreams, aching eyes and a story behind them. Hits deeper and shakes us out of apathetic dehumanization and overlooking our 'sides' actions in perpetuating that suffering. Shock value is always the way to change uneducated and deeply biased minds. I agree. My post was directed to those who aspire to have a more nuanced pov over the situation. 4 hours ago, zazen said: Yeah jumping to conclusions too quickly is problematic. So is repeatedly leaving these isolated events one after another to accumulate dust while the other side uses them deflecting their responsibility and amplifying the event to then justify the continued horrors they commit. I think thats also a big reason why people rush to straighten out the facts and propaganda that has deadly consequences. If it wasn't consequential they probably wouldn't. Its really messy. The risk here is dumbing down the conversation too much tho. Propaganda conversation. Not knowing exacly what's happening you jump to conlusions in fear that the other do it quicker then you. There is already too much of that. Again, i was writing from the pov of someone who wish to understand better the dynamics of the conflict. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 27 @_Archangel_ 6 hours ago, _Archangel_ said: @Danioover9000 To learn from every sources, but being able to descern the truth and the agenda. The answer isn't to spread more propaganda. I'm all for being conscious of what's happening on the field, but too much of that leads poeple to reinforce their biases, deafening critical thinking. Arguing about a single isolated event is useless. Not at all. I think we should back away because we risk to judge a hot event with rushed conclusion. Remember all the poeple that rushed to conclusion over the early hospital explosions, not even a day after the facts. I agree to learn from every source, and discern truth and agenda, but what if the information ecology is polluted by propaganda, and poisons the well of discerning truth and agendas? Great, I agree the answer isn't to spread more propaganda, yet why is Israel spreading more propaganda than the pro Palestinians? How is arguing a single isolated event useless? For example, in Andrew Tate's human trafficking trial, they're focused on proving/disproving him being guilty for specifically human trafficking, so is that a useless event and waste of time to gather more details? 1 hour ago, _Archangel_ said: @zazen Shock value is always the way to change uneducated and deeply biased minds. I agree. My post was directed to those who aspire to have a more nuanced pov over the situation. The risk here is dumbing down the conversation too much tho. Propaganda conversation. Not knowing exacly what's happening you jump to conlusions in fear that the other do it quicker then you. There is already too much of that. Again, i was writing from the pov of someone who wish to understand better the dynamics of the conflict. If your main point is to inspire more nuanced POV of the situation, and to lessen propaganda, then why have you not addressed Israel's greater spread of propaganda than the Palestinians? Why not suggest to us some outside sources, like ground news or other, that is critical of both sides using propaganda? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 27 Lol. Propaganda is in full swing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 27 @Bobby_2021 9 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said: Lol. Propaganda is in full swing. As I stated before, both sides are doing propaganda here, just that Israel is more with it's propaganda. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 27 Sad to see this: Did a body language analysis of Owen before, so here no different but there's a bit more emphasizing, and disappointment here of how this man was treated here in his POV. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 27 May I ask how many of you consider themselves religious? @Bobby_2021 @Danioover9000 @zazen @Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 27 (edited) @Leo Gura Please ban @Danioover9000 This guy does nothing but publishing propaganda. It’s a discussion not a publication of your agenda. Edited January 27 by Heaven Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 27 (edited) 1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said: @Bobby_2021 As I stated before, both sides are doing propaganda here, just that Israel is more with it's propaganda. I think that if you zoom out to the average of the truth : distortion ratio of a stage RED-blue side, and compare it to the ratio of the blue-orange-green side, the results will be in the favor of the latter and in a very big gap. When you grow up in democracy from birth you will take it for granted, and then actually the different "creature" will seem to you more sexy, and you will tend to symphatize with him more in many cases. And then of course to give over weight to his claims. Not that it is bad to be interested in very different cultures, this is a beautiful thing and has its purpose, but when in such tricky conflict like we have now, this is a double edged sword. Edited January 27 by Nivsch 🌲 You can rarely pretend to give an effective advice to someone just from the fact that you cannot see the unique inner logic behind his actions, no matter how obvious you will mistakenly think the answer is. If you really want to help and not to harm, encourage him to trust more his own logic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 27 (edited) Here's the moment of TRUTH, if you guys cannot see how blatantly propagandist this Levy is, that's the strongest sign you have been mund fucked by Israeli propaganda: REALLY BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF! Not me, or others, or Leo or mods, but YOURSELF! Notice how he's words are poisoning your mind, just NOTICE! Apply your mindfulness to this situation, and see for yourself. Same with the other side, go apply mindfulness and see for yourself how damaging propaganda can be. Demanding me to get banned over getting triggered, the levels of lack of mindfulness...is wild. Edited January 27 by Danioover9000 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 27 @Danioover9000 Bro I can clearly see how emotional you’re about this topic..You keep publishing cherry picking of information and look micro rather than macro. You keep brainwashing yourself with YT Islamic content and then you get mad with us not agreeing with you. You are not here to discuss. You are here to show how wrong the other side is and criticizing us. You need to be honest with yourself and ask what are you trying to do here. You lead to war instead of finding common ground. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 27 Most of the anti Jews are listening to opinions rather than facts. Instead of watching the entire 30-60 minutes video they pin point about 10 secs and misinterpret in purpose. Media is clearly on the Islamic side because there are 2 billions Islamic people verses 15 millions Jews. Not to talk about TikTok who is controlled by China(Obviously they are on the terrorist side). Focus on facts. See the world as it is. Less than a hundred years ago, terror organization killed 50% of the Jews. Than proceeded with killing almost 100 million people. Jews are in a danger of extinction. Anti semitism is in all time high. Yes it’s almost impossible to be unbiased when your life depends on it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 27 (edited) Edited January 27 by Raze Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 27 @Leo Gura Please ban @Raze Citing things from Al Jazeera is like showing things from Israel channel 14(The extreme right). Again you are not being objective and biased. For some reason I am not surprised. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 27 Quote IFJ to take Israel to court if journalists are targeted The International Federation of Journalists (IFJ) has pledged to prosecute Israeli officials if they do not comply with the International Court of Justice’s orders in regards to targeting journalists. In a letter addressed to Netanyahu and Israeli Defence Minister Yoav Gallant, IFJ noted that “the death toll now represents around ten per cent of journalists in the enclave”. It added that the death rate for journalists is around three times that of health workers – “it is impossible to believe that this is a matter of chance”, it said. “Our hope would be that humanity and a desire to promote a free media is sufficient to persuade you to take these steps. If this does not happen, however, we will have no hesitation in initiating action in the international courts against politicians and IDF commanders and encouraging our 187 affiliates to do the same where their domestic jurisdictions allow.” https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/1/27/israels-war-on-gaza-live-hospital-blackout-amid-khan-younis-assault Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 27 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Heaven said: @Leo Gura Please ban @Raze Citing things from Al Jazeera is like showing things from Israel channel 14(The extreme right). Again you are not being objective and biased. For some reason I am not surprised. This is appalling and turns my stomach to see this cruel distortions. Cherry picking can make even the sun to look dark, with focusing only on sunspots. I have never saw Israeli children sing things like that thats why I am sure 99.999% of Israeli children are not like that. I grew up here from birth and I know Israelis for 36 years, and this kind of cruelty manipulation comes from aljazeera is equivalent to hamas mantality just without the physical violence. @Heaven I am totally agree with you here. Edited January 27 by Nivsch 🌲 You can rarely pretend to give an effective advice to someone just from the fact that you cannot see the unique inner logic behind his actions, no matter how obvious you will mistakenly think the answer is. If you really want to help and not to harm, encourage him to trust more his own logic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 27 2 minutes ago, Nivsch said: This is appalling and turns my stomach to see this cruel distortions. Cherry picking can make even the sun to look dark, with focusing only on sunspots. I have never saw Israeli children sing things like that thats why I am sure 99.999% of Israeli children are not like that. I grew up here from birth and I know Israelis for 36 years, and this kind of cruelty manipulation comes from aljazeera is equivalent to hamas mantality just without the physical violence. @Heaven I am totally agree with you here. Al Jazeera didn’t produce the video, they just reported on it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 27 32 minutes ago, Nivsch said: This is appalling and turns my stomach to see this cruel distortions. Cherry picking can make even the sun to look dark, with focusing only on sunspots. I liked this metaphor 🔝 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
