Posted January 25 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Nivsch said: You will have to add the link from where you think what you think. What do you mean? He was detained for 40 days, clearly showing he is not a terrorist and did not kill Jews. If they had concerete proof he was he would have either been shot or sent to jail. Meanwhile he was released. Showing that there was no concerete evidence linking him to the attacks. Therefore he was innocent (you are innocent unless proven guilty) and was treated in this way. You can see it on his eyes and how he is shaking the hell he went through. What is there to discuss? There was footage of them being naked and stuff. This is medieval barbaric stuff. Reminds me of how Mongols shit. Basically they have reached Hamas level brutality. Even Hamas did not treat their POW like this. I never heard of any hostage treated like this. Edited January 25 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 51 minutes ago, Vrubel said: Ask yourself WHY Israelis are stubborn on the points you think they’re stubborn. Everyone has a story to tell. Most human suffering isn't written about in history books. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 (edited) @Karmadhi I mean I don't know about the case you talk about but I found myself articles now. Although IDF denies the claims about severe conditions, I could not understand many from that, because the wording is general and doesnt relate to the details Gazans claims about. I believe there is something in many claims but I can't say anything about specific conditions and the terror suspicion level of every one of those people. It sounds complicated. But, fair enough, from the articles seems to me that there are for sure problems in the arrests conditions and treatments. Every culture has its dark places, and if you want to critisize fairly you will compare every such claim to other parallel cases in another western countries. This doesn't exemp the Israeli system from responsibility to develop itself and improve, but your critisizm emotionality and sense of urgency is clearly a sign of an agenda, but you have a right to hold an agenda just as I do myself too. Edited January 25 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 (edited) 1 hour ago, Vrubel said: @zazen Ask yourself WHY Israelis are stubborn on the points you think they’re stubborn. If have the capacity to honestly answer that question, you’ll make your golden insight. Or just join-in on the hive mind spiraling further into the deepest of bias and mushy-mindedness. Your choice. Understanding a point of view doesn't mean standing with it. I can get Israel's perspective - particularly the point of not allowing a state in West Bank due to security risks coming from the North which has a elevation and proximity to Tel Aviv that puts it right in the cross hairs for some attacks. The issue is Israel wants a majority Jewish population in a majority Arab land - that requires demographic engineering through laws and guns ie occupation and apartheid which will be resisted and that will demand a level of violence and oppression to uphold until it erupts like a volcano (October 7th). To maintain this structure in the modern world needs propaganda and a narrative of superiority and entitlement that allows Israeli citizens to be okay with their state doing what it has to do in the background of their lives and even participating in it when they have to via the IDF. If looked at honestly, both lands for the Palestinians remain controlled internally (West Bank) and externally (Gaza) by Israel effectively making it a single state with with two territories (districts) run by Palestinians with different laws and rights ie apartheid. The issue is it can't go on forever into the 21st century which isn't receptive to such a set up. It's just ill fitting for this era which is why the world has issue with it - especially since the label of democracy and Western values gets slapped onto Israel and proudly worn which brings with it expectations and standards in line with that - and when those aren't met (especially in how IDF conducts war and mocks Gazans on tik tok) it causes people to pause, take a look and possibly even reconsider their world view. What is democracy? Could it be half a democracy or its own version of it due to its unique situation? Hmm, can a woman be half pregnant? Well, she can be a few months pregnant and maybe thats Israel right now, its still a young nation on its way and hasn't fully caught up to where it should be according to its aspiration of being a democracy like the ones in the West it likes to affiliate itself with. As for stubbornness and entitlement it could be for a few reasons: past horrific traumas inflicted on the Jews which causes them to be hypersensitive to any threat, even if it isn't existential ie Hamas don't have a airforce, tanks, artillery, nuclear etc compared to a nation that has all of them including the backing of major powers. The impunity given to Israel by a superpower (the US) and a guilt laden coalition of Western allies who committed the worst atrocities to their ancestors. The fact that Israel has a political stranglehold over powerful nations of the West. Maybe also ancient scripture claiming them as the chosen ones and which works as a title deed to the land - as if the land is patented and trademarked solely for them by their God. Edited January 25 by zazen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 (edited) Thursday Jan 25 2024 Extremely short clip - 3 seconds. Very little context, but again gives a very brief glimpse into the magnitude of the desperation as the food crisis deepens. Edited January 25 by kenway Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 (edited) @kenway Don't mislead without checking first. From the video we cant see ANYTHING. And up until now the only side who proved to kill civilians asking for aid is hamas. Edited January 25 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 @Nivsch I didn't mislead about anything. I'm not responsible for the text of the Twitter account. My commentary pertains to the video. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 (edited) No Israeli here takes seriously those link trees that proved to be very agenda driven and vague in their ability to provide proofs. Edited January 25 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 (edited) 4 minutes ago, kenway said: I'm not responsible for the text of the Twitter account. My commentary pertains to the video. Great so check first their reliability because otherwise this is just a brainwhashing method. Edited January 25 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 @Nivsch Then I don't know what to tell you, other than to propose you might be a little paranoid. I cannot share the video without the Twitter text embedded. Believe me, if I could I would. And, if you think I have an agenda, I'd politely request to comment on what you think that agenda is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 @Nivsch You're demonstrating very bad faith here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 Just now, kenway said: @Nivsch You're demonstrating very bad faith here. Sounds like you do a manipulation right now. 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 15 minutes ago, Nivsch said: Don't mislead without checking first. From the video we cant see ANYTHING. And up until now the only side who proved to kill civilians asking for aid is hamas. You remind me of those Russians saying Ukrainians bomb their own people to justify their war crimes. It is quite clear IDF is waging a war against Palestinian people and therefore they want them to suffer because they see them all as terrorists and animals. This much is clear now. 37 minutes ago, Nivsch said: Every culture has its dark places, and if you want to critisize fairly you will compare every such claim to other parallel cases in another western countries. I never heard Western countries do this sort of barbarism in 2024. Ever. This is basically how Russia treats Ukranians POW. More proof that Russia and Israeli militaries are on the same wavelength. And since you say "every culture has its dark places", you can say Hamas is the "dark place" of Palestinian culture. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 2 hours ago, lina said: squatters* Squatting deep with full range of motion. They should lunge back to their given territory and stop expanding jeez. Would be sad to see that land settled on after the world watched what massacre went on there and at what cost it came. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 (edited) @Nivsch STOP gaslighting me. The simple fact of the matter is that there is very very little information coming out of Gaza. There is incredibly scarce media representation. The ONLY way of getting hold of raw content is via the Palestinian social media accounts that record it. THAT'S IT. I don't have skin in this game. I don't know anything about Islamic culture, Israeli culture, Arabic culture, Palestinian culture. My only agenda is anti-genocide, pro-unity, pro-empathy, and pro-peace. Edited January 25 by Sincerity Removed inflaming and namecalling Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 2 minutes ago, zazen said: Squatting deep with full range of motion. They should lunge back to their given territory and stop expanding jeez. Would be sad to see that land settled on after the world watched what massacre went on there and at what cost it came. Funny thing is that if Palestinians decide to murder these illegal settlers, they are called terrorists. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 (edited) @kenway Where are you from? No need for personal attacks. Nivsch is the most sensible pro Israeli guy here. Edited January 25 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 @Karmadhi US treatment for terrorists is better? Probably worse. Terrorists in Israeli prison get Netflix and even can do a degree. Our court is too soft for the view of many people. 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 (edited) @kenway I dont know what you are trying to do but I have nothing personal against you and I really don't know you, apart from the method widespreaded here to upload unchecked links every 6 hours that only distorts and brainwashes the crowd opinions, even if you didnt meant to it. Thats all that I am saying. Edited January 25 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Nivsch said: US treatment for terrorists is better? Probably worse How do you know he is a terrorist? The fact that he was released after 40 days shows the evidence was not enough, otherwise he would either recieve a jail sentence or just shot. USA did some bad things at Guatalamo but firstly it was 25 years ago and secondly it was a huge scandal that recieved insane outrage from the American people and internationally. Meanwhile, here you are defending the same practices. What scares me is that you are a relatively moderate Israeli and you wish good for others and still you tend to rationalize this stuff , I do not want to image how Ben Gvir voters must be. Edited January 25 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
