Posted January 24 (edited) On 1/23/2024 at 7:40 AM, kenway said: @Raze @zazen @lina @Nabd Thoughts on this? Also what are your thoughts on the 17 page Hamas statement released Sunday 21st Jan? My thoughts and understanding now is that Oct 7th is mostly Israeli propaganda. Specifically, an ordinary Hamas military attack on the border that went wrong and was thereafter exploited by Israeli intelligence and the IDF. I'm glad that Finkelstein (et al) touched on the subject, but I'm still trying to digest it all. Any perspectives would be appreciated. @kenwayin regards to their statement yes I read it it's posted here: https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1749055484475167151 It's difficult to know for sure but there's certainly a possibility for it being a form propaganda, but honestly I still find it more believable than the Israeli narrative, especially with the recent investigations stating that a significant number of civilian death was caused by the IDF. To me it does seem like an exploitation for what was intended to be a limited operation for prisoners exchange to start a war and take over Gaza for good. Also the most important point as noted by Dr. Norman Finkelstein is the fact that Hamas has been calling for international investigations but Israel is the one that has not been cooperating, which says a lot. Edited January 24 by lina Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 24 32 minutes ago, lina said: To me it does seem like an exploitation for what was intended to be a limited operation for prisoners exchange to start a war and take over Gaza for good. Yeah I'm feeling that too. Thanks for the insight. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 3 hours ago, Nivsch said: They block the trucks because they are worried about their loved ones who are held hostage and think that only humanitarian problem will put enough pressure on hamas. Omg. The only way the awful hostage situation is fixed is with an immediate ceasefire and negotiations. No more bombings and killings. Just negotiations. Give them what they want and let those traumatised hostages go home, it’s gone on long enough. Starving, blocking aid trucks, killing and maiming children and women is not going to get them home. being nasty and vindictive is not the way and drop “a few bad apples” bullshit you have parroted since day one on this thread. No one is buying it. You look like a goose. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 @Merkabah Star 46 minutes ago, Merkabah Star said: Omg. The only way the awful hostage situation is fixed is with an immediate ceasefire and negotiations. No more bombings and killings. Just negotiations. Give them what they want and let those traumatised hostages go home, it’s gone on long enough. Starving, blocking aid trucks, killing and maiming children and women is not going to get them home. being nasty and vindictive is not the way and drop “a few bad apples” bullshit you have parroted since day one on this thread. No one is buying it. You look like a goose. This'll be an interesting year. Will they soften, or harden their positions? How much suffering until something changes drastically? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 (edited) @Merkabah Star There are two main things here as I see it. On one hand Israel has to do everything to release them even if it means to cease the fire to even a year and keep a security belt all around Gaza. On the other hand, the long term goal of defeating hamas cannot be abandoned. If you care about the Gazans you have to know that if hamas stays there, Million of poor children will be under a cruel cult that will give them a gun from age 16 and posion their brains into the importance of killing and suicide, as it already happened and now probably be even worse. If you want Million of Gazan children to heal, you have to acknowledge the importance of defeating hamas. Otherwise they will end up killed inside in the psychological and spiritual sense. The second things is about Israel. If Israel's enemies see they can stop her, this can open a dangerous pandora box to them attacking Israel in the future in greater forces out of an improved self confidence and belief on their ability to defeat her. The whole reputation of Israel as a deterrent factor will be diminished. Edited January 25 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 @Nivsch if you cared about Israel you would want a ceasefire. If you cared about the hostages you would want a ceasefire. Unless of course you are a sadist. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 (edited) @Merkabah Star In the short term of course. Edited January 25 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 18 minutes ago, Nivsch said: If you want Million of Gazan children to heal, Let's not pretend that Israelis care about Gazan children. You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: Let's not pretend that Israelis care about Gazan children. Honestly I personaly can feel a sense of caring to them. They are purely victims. Many Israelis don't care about them especially when they only connect traumas from terror to the palestinians and thats it. 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 (edited) @Nivsch Do you understand how many Gazan children have been traumatized for life by the last 3 months of bombing the hell out of Gaza? Many of them will now become terrorists. Because they have no other options. Edited January 25 by Leo Gura You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 @Nivsch 6 minutes ago, Nivsch said: Honestly I personaly can feel a sense of caring to them. They are purely victims. Many Israelis don't care about them especially when they only connect traumas from terror to the palestinians and thats it. And this is why misinformation and propaganda is dangerous, it desensitizes the population so much that apathy is widespread. If Israeli really cared for the suffering and deaths of the Gazan children, immediate demand for ceasefire, or boycotts and civil protests would happen in Israel. IF they cared, BUT the propaganda and the constant labelling of Palestinians and human animals and HAMMAs HAMMAs HAMMAs HAMMAs, so much thought terminating cliches so often that apathy and distortions are the only way to live in peace, in blissful ignorance, otherwise you'd cry, get angry and be sick of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: @Nivsch Do you understand how many Gazan children have been traumatized for life by the last 3 months of bombing the hell out of Gaza? Many of them will now become terrorists. Because they have no other options. Yes I agree this is a really significant factor that will design their thinking. I think that makes the goal to be even more important now if we want a chance for them to utilize this trauma to healthier places and even to get a kind of treatment later in their life. 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 45 minutes ago, Nivsch said: I think that makes the goal to be even more important now if we want a chance for them to utilize this trauma to healthier places and even to get a kind of treatment later in their life. Gaza isn't a self development community lol what are you talking about utilizing trauma to healthier places For how bad Israelis cried over 1,200 death toll put yourselves in the shoes of something 10x the magnitude Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 3 hours ago, Nivsch said: I think that makes the goal to be even more important now if we want a chance for them to utilize this trauma to healthier places and even to get a kind of treatment later in their life. Maybe you can sing songs, that might help them heal? Or braid their hair and hold hands and skip down the kibbutz? Or cuddle therapy? A good cuddle will heal anything, yeah. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 3 hours ago, Nivsch said: I think that makes the goal to be even more important now if we want a chance for them to utilize this trauma to healthier places and even to get a kind of treatment later in their life. I agree, this is very important. This is the real key to change. Someone should take positive ownership of them. All these human rights organizations, including UNRA, who hang there could do that, but instead, they covertly cooperate with Hamas and other Islamist terrorist organizations that indoctrinate these children and put guns in their hands. Many social justice warriors in the world speak in the name of these children, as if they really care about them, but none of the adults among them aim to protect them from Hamas and the toxic ideology that creates generations of terrorists. They simp, glorify and idealize these Islamists in their head, see them as heros and as legitimate freedom fighters, as if rape and killing babies is a legitimate act of freedom. Instead of blaming Israel for defending itself against terrorists, which puts the future generation of Palestinians in countinoius suffering for them and for Israel, someone should hold these terrorists accountable for their anti-Israel, antisemitic, and Islamist toxic ideology, not to mention their horrific October 7 crimes. If there is no one in the world who can stand against them, they shouldn't be surprised if Israel does that. If they don't like the way Israel does that, they can go and do it themselves. "Never be afraid to sit a while and think.” ― Lorraine Hansberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 Why Qatar funding US universities? https://www.ynetnews.com/business/article/bjldya2qa That explains why these "woke" educated students in the US support Islamist terrorism and rationalize it, they are literally funded and brainwashed by pro- terrorists across the world. https://thehill.com/opinion/education/4328440-pro-terrorist-cash-is-funding-us-higher-ed-and-taxpayers-should-be-upset-about-it/ https://www.foxbusiness.com/media/funding-from-arab-countries-us-universities-raises-questions-almost-always-come-strings-attached "Never be afraid to sit a while and think.” ― Lorraine Hansberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 11 minutes ago, Lila9 said: Why Qatar funding US universities? https://www.ynetnews.com/business/article/bjldya2qa That explains why these "woke" educated students in the US support Islamist terrorism and rationalize it, they are literally funded and brainwashed by pro- terrorists across the world. https://thehill.com/opinion/education/4328440-pro-terrorist-cash-is-funding-us-higher-ed-and-taxpayers-should-be-upset-about-it/ https://www.foxbusiness.com/media/funding-from-arab-countries-us-universities-raises-questions-almost-always-come-strings-attached Teal's video about today's "woke" culture is relvent than ever. "Never be afraid to sit a while and think.” ― Lorraine Hansberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 (edited) 2 hours ago, Lila9 said: Teal's video about today's "woke" culture is relvent than ever. Thank you this is a great video. Instead of judging mainly the virus and its highly devious strategy, they are disproportionally over judging the overreaction and overaggression of the immune system, without realizing who they are jadging, and what is its greater function. In this way, they are just being played by the virus like puppets on its strings. Edited January 25 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 (edited) 6 hours ago, Nivsch said: Yes I agree this is a really significant factor that will design their thinking. I think that makes the goal to be even more important now if we want a chance for them to utilize this trauma to healthier places and even to get a kind of treatment later in their life. I saw a clip of a Palestinian guy with a white flag being shot dead by soldiers in the middle of the street. How do you justify this? How many more documented blatantly open war crimes must happen for you to realize something is seriously wrong in the way this war is being conducted? And if they actually cared about civilians they would not strike a refugee camp killing close to 100 civilians to kill 1 Hamas guy. They would say "We can take him out but the death toll will be so big, it is not worth doing, we will take him out another way". That is how a moral army operates. In their minds there are 2 sides here: IDF and the enemy. Civilians are not seen as a third innocent party like you might think. Their actions openly show this. Edited January 25 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 25 (edited) @Karmadhi Where did you see I am justify something? There are of course problems with tactics IDF do, but how does it contradict the big picture goal? The fact you guys are judging a highly justified strategic goal and often in a very devilish way for your hypocrite everything-but-clean agenda, doesn't make me justify problematic tactics or to be a kind of person you want me to be in your mind to not have to listen to me and face your agenda flaws. Edited January 25 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
