Posted January 23 1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said: What have I missed from my week off? Stages A and B of the of extermination are over. Stage C of the extermination (Starvation and Disease) are beginning now. It will probably take a few months from here. The key aspect is the Philadelphi Corridor. I'm guessing Netanyahu wants to keep deaths less than a million if he can help it. Either way Egyptian relations are going to break down. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23 (edited) Very good analysis. Edited January 23 by kenway Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23 (edited) 2 hours ago, kenway said: Very good analysis. @Raze @zazen @lina @Nabd Thoughts on this? Also what are your thoughts on the 17 page Hamas statement released Sunday 21st Jan? My thoughts and understanding now is that Oct 7th is mostly Israeli propaganda. Specifically, an ordinary Hamas military attack on the border that went wrong and was thereafter exploited by Israeli intelligence and the IDF. I'm glad that Finkelstein (et al) touched on the subject, but I'm still trying to digest it all. Any perspectives would be appreciated. Edited January 23 by kenway Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23 Also @Nabd don't delete your account. I agree with your assessment that Israel created Hamas. Don't let people push you around if you are speaking the truth. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23 (edited) @Nabd they are not worth it, let them be savages. Edited January 23 by StarStruck Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23 7 hours ago, Girzo said: So you can clearly see how approach chosen by Israel is going to get things worse in the end by radicalizing the other side. They are human beings. They have at the very least 50% responsibility to the conflict dyamics, aside with full responsibility to their thinking patterns. They can make conclusions in many directions. 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23 (edited) 6 hours ago, Leo Gura said: This is pretty bad: It is frustrating to hear about those dark cells within the system but it is very difficult to demand the whole system to be disciplined or equally moral, with all the depressing reality of the fact that bad apples can infect he whole basket reputation. @Danioover9000 As every military has and often even more than IDF if to be honest. Edited January 23 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23 15 minutes ago, Nivsch said: It is frustrating to hear about those dark cells within the system but it is very difficult to demand the whole system to be disciplined or equally moral, with all the depressing reality of the fact that bad apples can infect he whole basket reputation. Why are they so hateful and ruthless? I doubt most of them have been personally affected by the war. At least with Hamas I can say that they have been born under Gaza which is a total shithole and many have family members that were killed by the IDF. So they have personal reasons to be cruel and hateful towards Isarelis. I do not see the IDF being personally affected in the same way. Unless you have a close friend killed in combat, which even that I doubt considering the death rate is quite low in the IDF relative to the number of mobilized troops. I am talking purely about these cruel unnecessary actions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23 11 hours ago, Leo Gura said: Stop being dense. Netanyahu is nothing like Hitler. It was an extreme example to make my point. I do not think he is more evolved than people like Putin. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23 Just now, Karmadhi said: It was an extreme example to make my point. I do not think he is more evolved than people like Putin. People ain’t Pokémon bruh. I AM invisible Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23 (edited) 4 hours ago, kenway said: Also @Nabd don't delete your account. I agree with your assessment that Israel created Hamas. Don't let people push you around if you are speaking the truth. He's probably just taking a break. Like with covid or any conspiracy the question comes down to - was it created by the elites or opportunistically used by them. The two extremes are that every major event was conspired into creation or that no conspiracy is possible because the worlds too big and random + a world where a evil cabal exists is too scary to confront and fathom leading to learned helplessness. Truth lies somewhere in the middle - some events are conspired into existence and other times powerful people conspire around events already set in motion by the randomness of life. Countless hours can be spent discussing conspiracies but ultimately whichever the case - the weaponisation of something rather than the creation of it is bad enough to attribute some responsibility and ill intention which Nabd highlights and that people can often under appreciate. @Danioover9000 It's a bit more chill, that was just a Saturday night live over the weekend haha. Ken broke down current events well. Speaking of conspiracies and the grave digging in Gaza. There's been allegations and convictions of organ harvesting before including involved parties being Chabad in Brooklyn where they found tunnels recently - funny how that just got muted out of the media. https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2009/dec/21/israeli-pathologists-harvested-organs https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE56M3QU/ “Dozens of New Jersey politicians, officials and prominent rabbis were arrested on Thursday in a sweeping federal probe that uncovered political corruption, human organ sales and money laundering from New York to Israel, officials said.” Source: TrUsT mE bRo it’S nOt a CoNspiRacy Edited January 23 by zazen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23 1 hour ago, Nivsch said: They are human beings. They have at the very least 50% responsibility to the conflict dyamics, aside with full responsibility to their thinking patterns. If you believe that then you must think that Israel is either very weak or you are okay with it abusing its power, because it's the role of the stronger party to take responsibility. But then why are you so dead on not calling abuse 'an abuse'? You can't ask people who get partially cut out from the world, segregated as second class people, not even citizens, to take equal part in responsibility. Yes you can overpower and abuse people, nothing in the universe will stop you from that by default. But then don't cry when that backlashes and other people voice their disdain towards you. I understand Israel's actions, yet have no sympathy towards them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23 (edited) 1 hour ago, Nivsch said: It is frustrating to hear about those dark cells within the system but it is very difficult to demand the whole system to be disciplined or equally moral, with all the depressing reality of the fact that bad apples can infect he whole basket reputation. Watch your rationalizations. The desecration of 16 graveyards is not "some bad apples", that comes from official policy. 1 hour ago, Karmadhi said: I do not think he is more evolved than people like Putin. Yes he is. Putin will murder you. Edited January 23 by Leo Gura You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23 A study from the European Institute. Noa Krikler writes in 2021 upon the logic of cemetery destruction during genocidal campaigns. Full text: https://eprints.lse.ac.uk/118722/1/Krikler_Cemetery_destruction_published.pdf Quote:- "Three motivations behind the destruction of cemeteries during genocidal campaigns emerged, namely the strengthening of the myth of national purity, the reclaiming of land that is ‘ours’ and the attempt to erase all visible evidence of ‘the other’—all of which can express genocidal intentions. The second section of the analysis, addressing the impact and the legacy of cemetery destruction, reinforces these findings: namely the reinforcement of cultural separation and mistrust that genocidal campaigns foster and the continued violence on the part of the conflict's winners. It is clear that any attempt to examine a genocide without considering the dimension of cultural destruction will fundamentally ignore crucial aspects of the nature and legacy of genocidal campaigns themselves." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23 (edited) 5 hours ago, kenway said: @Raze @zazen @lina @Nabd Thoughts on this? Also what are your thoughts on the 17 page Hamas statement released Sunday 21st Jan? My thoughts and understanding now is that Oct 7th is mostly Israeli propaganda. Specifically, an ordinary Hamas military attack on the border that went wrong and was thereafter exploited by Israeli intelligence and the IDF. I'm glad that Finkelstein (et al) touched on the subject, but I'm still trying to digest it all. Any perspectives would be appreciated. Good listen, I haven't seen the Hamas statement yet but going by the video and from listening to previous analysts that seems correct. The fact that Hamas welcomes investigation and Israel doesn't also doesn't bode well for Israel - they buried the cars for example. No doubt its plausible that some atrocities took place at the hands of Hamas, the problem lies in the false amplification of it to justify what came next. That rape was was done at mass scale and that the sole intent of their operation was genocide - that this extends as a threat to the Western world and that this fight against Hamas is a fight for the free world as President Herzog claimed at Davos this week. Hamas is such a threat to the world that majority of the world call for a ceasefire and not to rid them from the earth. Good article: https://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2024-01-19/guardian-hamas-rape-sniff-test/ ''Did Hamas’ most disciplined elite fighters – training for years and knowing that this might be their only, brief moment to take on the Israeli army in a near-fair fight or drag hostages back to Gaza for a prisoner swap before the Israeli military used its air power to overwhelm them – really take time out to indulge in a sick game involving a woman’s breast? What we now know – from multiple credible Israeli sources – is that Israel killed lots of its own civilians on October 7. Ynet, Israel’s biggest media outlet, has just published an investigation in Hebrew showing that Hamas successfully took out Israel’s all-seeing drone “eyes” over Gaza that day, leaving the Israeli military blind about what was happening. Panicked, Israeli commanders invoked the Hannibal directive, allowing those in the field to order tanks and helicopters to fire at anything that moved. It was Israel that incinerated the hundreds of cars trying to flee the Nova festival, killing potentially hundreds of the 1,140 Israelis that died that day, as well as Hamas fighters. It was an Israeli tank that incinerated 13 Israeli civilians, and 40 Hamas fighters, holed up in a house in Kibbutz Be’eri by blasting a shell through its front wall.'' Edited January 23 by zazen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23 2 hours ago, Karmadhi said: It was an extreme example to make my point. I do not think he is more evolved than people like Putin. Putin is a cold calculating psychopath. Literally any other prominent leader would be more evolved than Putin. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23 This Levy guy's losing it. They should have trained their propagandists better so they don't do this: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23 (edited) 3 hours ago, Leo Gura said: Watch your rationalizations. The desecration of 16 graveyards is not "some bad apples", that comes from official policy. What do you think the rational behind this if this is indeed a policy? If so, I want to believe this is only possible because of the current radical government the most radical since Israel establishment. Far right wing toxicity. Edited January 23 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23 4 hours ago, Leo Gura said: Yes he is. Putin will murder you. Israel has caused more human suffering under BiBi if you adjust it for its size relative to Russia under Putin. In the second chechen war, syrian war and ukraine, wars under Putin, combined to around 50.000 civilians have died. Under BiBI in Gaza just this war is close to 25.000, and will probably go to 40.000. If you add the other wars in Gaza it comes close to 50.000. So he is responsible for as much human suffering. Numbers mattes. Usually the number of people that died under someone's rule is a good indicator of how ruthless a leader is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23 @Karmadhi And the Allied killed 350,000 to 500,000 in WW2. Numbers are meaningless without big picture context. 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
