Posted January 21 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Vrubel said: Yes of course, people think we’re brainwashed with no capacity for objective thinking while in reality we stand up for our naked survival and all kinds of ugliness, lies and deceit. ❤ Edited January 21 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Vrubel said: Maybe it’s because he so Americanized and appeals to tacit American cultural and social sensitivities. He's very intelligent and he genuinely loves his country. He's not a radical as the left likes to portray him. He lost his brother in a counter-terrorism military operation. Edited January 21 by Leo Gura You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21 @Yog 1 hour ago, Yog said: No no You should be listening to orphaned land now Actually dope music and rock in roll. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Vrubel said: Yes of course, people think we’re brainwashed with no capacity for objective thinking while in reality we stand up for our naked survival and all kinds of ugliness, lies and deceit. No you aren’t, you are biased by nationalism. You haven’t been giving unbiased objective analysis, you declared yourself a “proud Jew” early in the thread, basically admitting you stand by Israel for personal ethnicity reasons primarily and have continued to call Palestinians inflammatory things like “savages” confirming huge biases. You aren’t tricking anyone. Stop accusing everyone else of bias towards you when you can’t even present your arguments in an unbiased way. Edited January 21 by Raze Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21 24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: He's very intelligent and he genuinely loves his country. He's not a radical as the left likes to portray him. Regarding loving his country: He is very corrupt, had charges against him and was risking heavy prison time prior to the attack. Also, he was trying to undermine democracy and rule and law of Israel which you call a democracy. There were massive protests against him. Also, so far far he has claimed 0 responsibility for the attack which happened under his watch. Most Israelis I see are mad about this and want him to retire when the war ends. How exactly does he "love" his country? That is like saying Trump loves the US. He is similar to Trump in terms of corruption, not taking any responsibility and undermining democracy of his country. Regarding being radical: He literally is against ANY palestinian state, always has been. He showed maps of Israel before the attack in speeches where Palestine was not even there. Not even West Bank. Also, he has made coalition with right wing fanatics and called for Amalek (call for genocide basically) before the invasion came. How exactly is he not a radical? I am shocked on how you claim to like this guy. He is as bad as Putin, relatively worse considering Russia is a lot harsher survival condition than Israel which is a first world rich country. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21 2 hours ago, Nivsch said: I connected some dots today and realized that what many people here in this thread see as "Israel" is ,mainly, the 5% most far-right sector. I now understand this when I remember all the links and statements being quoted here. Why is that? Maybe those 5% have the highest sound volume, or that the world media wants to focus almost solely on them out of a confirmation bias. Because they are the ones in charge and the ones making the decisions both politcally and in the military. I saw clips of Israelis against the genocide in Gaza now. They do exist and I respect them a lot. Issue is they are not in power nor can do anything. The right wing fanatics are the ones that control Israel at the moment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21 (edited) 3 hours ago, Lila9 said: hey lived in peace, and they didn't live in peace, depending on the time, the area, and the leadership. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Islam I don't think Israel is entirely responsible for creating this hatred. Perhaps the immigration of Jews to Israel and the establishment of the state triggered pre-existing feelings of superiority towards Jews, leading to hatred. They were used to the historical fact that Jews were under their control since the dawn of Islam. And here, what they see is that an inferior group (to Islam) becomes superior, winning a war, establishing a Jewish state, which triggered feelings of humiliation. It certainly hurt Muslim pride and the collective self-image they held, as well as the image they had of Jews in relation to Muslims. The most conscientious solution is not to attack Jews or harbor resentment for their expulsion of Arabs to build a state in a Jewish historical homeland for survival. Instead, it is essential for them to introspect and recognize that Islam have expelled many nations throughout history, committing actions more brutal than what Jews may have done, acknowledge the dirt caused to people in the name of Islam. Acknowledging that Jews also deserve autonomy and one state of their own, while they already have many Muslim states, fostering forgiveness, and moving forward is a path toward understanding, resolution and peace. I am not saying that everything was perfect but I am sure Arabs treated them far better than Europeans did. Just the Holocaust is enough to differentiate the two. Now regarding Israel, the issue is I think that Israel would basically force native Palestinian Muslims to live under a Jewish state and they did not want that. Also, most importantly they did not want to give up their land to European Jew settlers. I am curious, why did not the White European Jew settlers live under Palestine and the authorities of Palestine could be a mixed government between Jews and Muslims? Similar to Lebanon which is Christian/Muslim. Or they could live as a minority group in Palestine depending on the demographics. White European Jews could come in but the native Palestinians would keep their houses and businesses. It would be similar to Syrians immigrating to Germany these last few years. Why create a totally different state? Edited January 21 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21 (edited) @Raze I do not so attached emotionaly to my Jewish identity as much as I care about my country values, but here there is a special case when those two things are overlap. That is why if the Jews will cease to be a majority here, then our values are in danger. To sum it up I am more Israeli than a Jew in my identity, but obviously I am not ashamed at all to be a Jew this is a good religion with decent values. Still a social construction and there are deeper identity facets I am more attached to. Edited January 21 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21 6 minutes ago, Raze said: No you aren’t, you are biased by nationalism. You haven’t been giving unbiased objective analysis, you declared yourself a “proud Jew” early in the thread, basically admitting you stand by Israel for personal ethnicity reasons primarily and have continued to call Palestinians inflammatory things like “savages” confirming huge biases. You aren’t tricking anyone. Well of course I want to disclose that I am Jewish. It would be more dishonest of me not to. I am not interested in playing games, part of the fun for me on this thread is that I express myself authentically. I wish I wasn’t Jewish so I could support Israel without being accused of self bias yes, “savagery” is an important here. It’s the kind of shit we saw on 7/10. Savagery and the potential for savagery is the main reason I support Israel over Palestinians. If we take savagery out of the equation I would view Palestinians more like Israeli Arabs. I wound want the best for them and protect them against any Israeli racism. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21 1 minute ago, Vrubel said: Well of course I want to disclose that I am Jewish. It would be more dishonest of me not to. I am not interested in playing games, part of the fun for me on this thread is that I express myself authentically. I wish I wasn’t Jewish so I could support Israel without being accused of self bias yes, “savagery” is an important here. It’s the kind of shit we saw on 7/10. Savagery and the potential for savagery is the main reason I support Israel over Palestinians. If we take savagery out of the equation I would view Palestinians more like Israeli Arabs. I wound want the best for them and protect them against any Israeli racism. Ok, so stop accusing everyone else of being biased or unfairly accusing you of not being objective. It’s one thing to be biased, it’s one thing to not acknowledge bias, it’s one thing to not present arguments without bias, but it’s another to be openly biased and accuse everyone else of bias, that is just annoying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21 (edited) @Raze humble yourself Edited January 22 by Carl-Richard Removed derogatory term Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21 @Raze 3 minutes ago, Raze said: Smoking gun right there. If the man himself Donald Trump, who everyone in this forum hates, is saying Netanyahu was kinda suspect, that's the biggest piece of evidence of intent anywhere that Netanyahu was trying to manipulate Trump to be used against Iran. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21 We know very well that Netanyahu has been trying to get the US to go to war with Iran since 9/11. We don't need Trump's word for it. You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 22 Netanyahu is the hardest working man I ever seen. Highly intelligent and sacrificing his life for his country. He is far from perfect but must be appreciated as well. It’s sad though to see that his family didn’t follow his way and are spoiled brats. One generation builds and the second destroys. So true that it’s sad.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 22 (edited) @Leo Gura 1 hour ago, Leo Gura said: We know very well that Netanyahu has been trying to get the US to go to war with Iran since 9/11. We don't need Trump's word for it. I'm sure most people here, 'we', know very well Netanyahu been trying to get USA to go to war with Iran since 9/11, but does the average American outside this forum know? Is this general knowledge in the USA of 'we' the American people?... Also not virtue signaling Donald Trump, just saying it's funny how he's also saying that Netanyahu was trying to get him to go to war with Iran too. Edited January 22 by Danioover9000 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 22 @Heaven 1 hour ago, Heaven said: Netanyahu is the hardest working man I ever seen. Highly intelligent and sacrificing his life for his country. He is far from perfect but must be appreciated as well. It’s sad though to see that his family didn’t follow his way and are spoiled brats. One generation builds and the second destroys. So true that it’s sad.. I'm sorry to say that history will remember this man as the one who leads this genocidal intent/acts from IDF onto Palestinians today. I'll grant that Netanyahu is hard working and smart, and sacrifices his life for his country but this event will be a stain in his rhyme book. I'm sure there were good parts to Donald Trump too, but again these men are more evil than good, you know? So, best not to venerate one man too much, and balance his good parts with his evil parts, remind yourself they're human animals who are capable of evil here and there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 22 (edited) Netanyahu and Trump is nothing alike. Trump is a buffoon, Netanyahu is a serious and thoughtful leader. You don't have to like his policies to appreciate his leadership skill. Edited January 22 by Leo Gura You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 22 27 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: Netanyahu and Trump was nothing alike. Trump is a buffoon, Netanyahu is a serious and thoughtful leader. You don't have to like his policies to appreciate his leadership skill. But Trump is on track to become president again and Netanyahu is on track to get kicked out, tactically Trump is winning and Netanyahu is failing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 22 13 minutes ago, Raze said: But Trump is on track to become president again and Netanyahu is on track to get kicked out, tactically Trump is winning and Netanyahu is failing. Just because you win doesn’t mean you’re good and vice versa. Luck is a big factor in life and need to be considered as well. The left in the US are off the rails these days and the attack by Hamas was inevitable considering Israel is surrounded by enemies.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
