New War In Israel / Gaza

[Bobby_2021]

19 minutes ago, kenway said:

I still don't understand your perspective. Why are you using the analogy of sheep specifically? Can you give examples?

Also, when you say:-

"The Arab world is known for its sheep mentality"

Where abouts are they actually known for this? In the Arab world itself, or somewhere else?

I'm just trying to understand the Israeli mindset.

I have already mentioned before. The Arab states cannot state an opinion on their own out of fear of offending their fellow states. 

Best examples are Egypt, Saudi and legit Yemen government backed by Saudi. 

1) All three of them want to eliminate the Houthis but are scared to admit it publicly. 

2) Egypt was scared to end the blockade because that would offend the fellow states at the cost of Palestinian lives. They do not care for that either.

3) Egypt has to anonymously assist in the security of the red sea alongside US, UK because shipping in the red sea is a source of revenue for the Egyptian state.

They have stands that they would not say publicly because that would make them look like supporting the west/Israel. Their position is that they are against Israel no matter what even at the cost of Palestinian lives and even their own financial security. That's Sheep mentality.

Basically, Sheep mentality.

[Nivsch]

The moderate Arab world of Egypt, Jordan, Saudi, Gulf emirates, Bahrain with all the problems is still a magnitude better than the Palestinians and have some healthy common sense with which one can actually talk and reach to some mutual understanding.

Edited January 21 by Nivsch

[Vrubel]

Ben Gvir and Smotrich as elected officials is a new phenomenon in Israel. Historically Israel’s leader were very down to earth and uncorrupted (they had to be for survival of the country), I can still see this integrity within the center left. 

Ben Gvir and Smotrich are so dense and self defeating its a matter of time before they get voted out again. Because in democracies governments change! Even Netanyahu will eventually go. There is no way I see him surviving the next election.
Yet the Palestinians decide to do a horrendous attack and cheer for it, totally dehumanizing themselves and throwing themselves at the feet of a government where Ben Gvir has and Smotrich have some influence. Luckily for the Palestinians, other forces in Israel decision making apparatus are more reasonable and level headed. 

Edited January 21 by Vrubel

[jaylimix]

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Nivsch I don't have that deep of a historical knowledge of that region. From what I heard small groups of Jews mostly lived in Palestine peacefully for a long time pre-Israel.

Leo what could be more of an illusion than a past like this, where two sides can argue endlessly.

This is what these fools here and on X are always arguing about.

And I have little to no interest.

I rather we just focus on the present and the plans for the future.

[Danioover9000]

@Leo Gura

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Nivsch I don't have that deep of a historical knowledge of that region. From what I heard small groups of Jews mostly lived in Palestine peacefully for a long time pre-Israel.

Obviously ethic violence was always a thing to some degree in all places. So some of that is normal.

   That's an interesting point that Arabs and Jews lived peacefully pre-Israel. Makes people wonder if they're open minded to it and not dogmatic.

[Danioover9000]

   Good example of ART being coopted and weaponized by either side:

 

 

[Danioover9000]

2 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

   Good example of ART being coopted and weaponized by either side:

 

 

   Even more examples:

   and

 

[kenway]

 

Sunday 21 Jan 2024 - Journalist Mohammed Asad celebrates his daughters birthday in Gaza.

Sometimes it's okay to be human.

 

[Karmadhi]

In August 1944, the Poles after being tired by the German Occupation rose up in an Uprising of Militia and attacked the Germans. Months of fighting ensued where they were eventually defeated.

During this fighting the Germans cut on purpose electricity and water from Warsaw, mass killed civilians as punishment and razed Warsaw to the ground. Lastly they expelled most  Poles from Warsaw.

When I see Israelis cutting on purpose electricy and water from Gaza, kill 25.000 civilians often on purpose and raze Gaza to the ground (like the videos sent where they blow up the university of Gaza on purpose) shows me similar tactics and level of thinking between IDF and Nazis.  Lastly Israel wants to expel the Palestinians from Gaza. 

Tell me how exactly does Israeli see Palestinians any better than Nazis saw Poles?

And killing 800 civilians does not justify this in any way. Stop using the October 7th attack as an excuse.

The brutality and tactics used in the Israeli response at this point to me have reached 21st Century Nazi levels. 25.000 civilians killed in 3 months is very high for 21 century moral standards. 

Disclaimer: I am not saying IDF is as bad as Nazis, but the way they see Palestinians is similar to how Nazis saw Poles.

As "human animals".

Edited January 21 by Karmadhi

[Karmadhi]

6 hours ago, Lila9 said:

They are anti-Israel because this is what is expected from them, any pro-Israeli hint in the Arab world which doesn't match the pro-palestinian narrative is frowned upon and seen as betrayal and may have drastic consecunsess for the individuals and their families. In Gaza and WB it may end up with executions.

People are not allowed to express pro-Israel opinions about the conflict or challenge the Palestinians narrative, there is no room for that or for any form of critical thinking. 

But why do Arabs hate Jews when they lived together for centuries at peace? When they treated Jews far better than Europeans did historically. You can say "there was oppression", and maybe there was but far less than in Europe. When you see how Europeans treated Jews it is insane.

So it is not true that Arabs or Muslims are inherently anti Jewish. 

Israel created this hatred, therefore you need to start to think why is that the case? If Arabs were so anti semetic they would have wiped out the Jews a long time ago in Palestine. 

Why they want to do so now?

What changed?

Maybe because the way Jews in Israel acted made them anti Jewish?

Start thinking about this.

@Nivsch Same goes to you

Edited January 21 by Karmadhi

[Lila9]

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

Good example of ART being coopted and weaponized by either side:

This is the full video clip-

Just to make it clear, there is nothing in this song saying to kill all the Palestinians.

This is very clear who they are talking about-

"Everyone who planned, everyone who supported (the massacre), everyone who carried out (the massacre) everyone who murdered."

 

 

[OBEler]

What's going on with this thread? 200k views 

[Yimpa]

11 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

 

 

I have absolutely no idea what’s being said in the song, but that beat and flow definitely slaps hard! 🎵🎤🎵

[Lila9]

55 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

But why do Arabs hate Jews when they lived together for centuries at peace? When they treated Jews far better than Europeans did historically. You can say "there was oppression", and maybe there was but far less than in Europe. When you see how Europeans treated Jews it is insane.

So it is not true that Arabs or Muslims are inherently anti Jewish. 

Israel created this hatred, therefore you need to start to think why is that the case? If Arabs were so anti semetic they would have wiped out the Jews a long time ago in Palestine. 

Why they want to do so now?

What changed?

Maybe because the way Jews in Israel acted made them anti Jewish?

Start thinking about this.

@Nivsch Same goes to you

They lived in peace, and they didn't live in peace, depending on the time, the area, and the leadership.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Islam 

I don't think Israel is entirely responsible for creating this hatred.

Perhaps the immigration of Jews to Israel and the establishment of the state triggered pre-existing feelings of superiority towards Jews, leading to hatred.

They were used to the historical fact that Jews were under their control since the dawn of Islam.

And here, what they see is that an inferior group (to Islam) becomes superior, winning a war, establishing a Jewish state, which triggered feelings of humiliation.

It certainly hurt Muslim pride and the collective self-image they held, as well as the image they had of Jews in relation to Muslims.

The most conscientious solution is not to attack Jews or harbor resentment for their expulsion of Arabs to build a state in a Jewish historical homeland for survival.

Instead, it is essential for them to introspect and recognize that Islam have expelled many nations throughout history, committing actions more brutal than what Jews may have done, acknowledge the dirt caused to people in the name of Islam.

Acknowledging that Jews also deserve autonomy and one state of their own, while they already have many Muslim states, fostering forgiveness, and moving forward is a path toward understanding, resolution and peace.

[Nivsch]

 

Edited January 21 by Nivsch

[Danioover9000]

@OBEler

1 hour ago, OBEler said:

What's going on with this thread? 200k views 

   When people are too biased, too dogmatic, too close minded and too triggered, we get threads 300 pages and counting with some heated debates and instigations and exchanges, that's what's going on!😂

[Nivsch]

15 hours ago, Heaven said:

Jewish country is justified after the holocaust.

The UN agreed they will live in Israel. So they didn’t just occupied the land.

Israel is the Jewish country for almost a 100 years. They are not going to move anywhere. The acceptance should be there to begin with after holocaust. Or maybe there should be a WW3 for Muslim countries to accept it.

Israel doesn’t oppress Syria, Iran, Lebanon, Qatar. Still those countries are doing anything they can to terrorize Israel. It was never about Palestinians and Israel it is much broader.

9/11 Didn’t happen because America is oppressing the Middle East but because of power games.

The history repeat itself. Just in a more complex way. Hamas = Nazis = Isis. 
To try to justify their actions is to believe a story that they are telling you. Guess what? They are lying to you.

+1 🧡

Liked your points.

Edited January 21 by Nivsch

[Danioover9000]

@Lila9

43 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

They lived in peace, and they didn't live in peace, depending on the time, the area, and the leadership.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Islam 

I don't think Israel is entirely responsible for creating this hatred.

Perhaps the immigration of Jews to Israel and the establishment of the state triggered pre-existing feelings of superiority towards Jews, leading to hatred.

They were used to the historical fact that Jews were under their control since the dawn of Islam.

And here, what they see is that an inferior group (to Islam) becomes superior, winning a war, establishing a Jewish state, which triggered feelings of humiliation.

It certainly hurt Muslim pride and the collective self-image they held, as well as the image they had of Jews in relation to Muslims.

The most conscientious solution is not to attack Jews or harbor resentment for their expulsion of Arabs to build a state in a Jewish historical homeland for survival.

Instead, it is essential for them to introspect and recognize that Islam have expelled many nations throughout history, committing actions more brutal than what Jews may have done, acknowledge the dirt caused to people in the name of Islam.

Acknowledging that Jews also deserve autonomy and one state of their own, while they already have many Muslim states, fostering forgiveness, and moving forward is a path toward understanding, resolution and peace.

   So the ultimate logical conclusion is that you want Palestinians in Gaza, in West bank, to convert to western values and democracy and stop fighting? Also by implication you want Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Turkey, Yemen, most of Iran, to just speed up development into western democracy, egalitarianism, and feminism? You ultimately want this American ideology to quickly spread and infest most of the middle east, regardless of cultural lose to those following Islam?

[Yimpa]

5 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@OBEler

   When people are too biased, too dogmatic, too close minded and too triggered, we get threads 300 pages and counting with some heated debates and instigations and exchanges, that's what's going on!😂

This thread must actually bee the book Leo was referring to that he was working on

 

[Lila9]

1 hour ago, Yimpa said:

I have absolutely no idea what’s being said in the song, but that beat and flow definitely slaps hard! 🎵🎤🎵

Yes the beat is awesome, I think that I've seen a translation of the song by someone in the comments on YT.