New War In Israel / Gaza

[Nivsch]

10 minutes ago, Nabd said:

This is utterly bullshit.

Please stop being extremely biased that you don't even read history.

People knew about the British intention of creating Israel and of course no one will allow such a state which is made up of people who are foreigners, which made them colonizers.

These are slogans surrounded by warm air. This is language manipulation.

You are invited to break down those high (and also misleading) words if you want to discuss seriously.

Edited January 20 by Nivsch

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

But nobody kicked anyone before the Palestinians decided to start a war

You kicked them when you settled on their land.

When that clicks for you, everything will make sense. Otherwise not.

Edited January 20 by Leo Gura

[Nivsch]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You kicked them when you settled on their land.

Then from this logic the terror is justified from the very fact that Israel exists.

Edited January 20 by Nivsch

[Danioover9000]

   This is getting a bit heated ATM. @Carl-Richard and @Thought Art might need to chill things here.

   We have to step back and slow down a bit, because now it's no longer just Israel versus Palestine, or the total sum evils done onto Palestine by Israel, starting from 3,500 roughly years ago, but Yemen and the Houthis are getting involved and the Houthis are attacking almost any shipping coming from the south through red sea. I feel like this is very similar to WW1, where 1 or 2 local events cascaded and had domino effects throughout the regions. What would we do if this conflict starts spiraling out of control, and Israel drags the USA much further into this conflict, and even bring in the UK, Russia, even China? This could seriously escalate within this year into a WW3 scenario. I feel now there's just literally so much evil being done back and forth by both sides that there's literally no innocence here, no innocence at all, just which side is more abusive than the other in the Israel/Palestine conflict.

Edited January 20 by Danioover9000

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Then from this logic the terror is justified from the very fact that Israel exists.

Bingo!

[Nivsch]

@Nabd There was no state here to begin with. Jews came here to a semi-vaccum.

2. Jews have an historical connections that you just decide to wash out.

[Lila9]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

They are forced to give up land!

You are conveniently ignoring the elephant in the room!

And they are not allowed to have a soverign state with their own military.

That's what all this is about.

People were always forced to give up land, this doesn't justify what they are doing, especially when they receive so much support and money from the world and have many options across the Middle East. 

Having their own military doesn't guarantee that it wouldn't be used against Israel, it will only make this conflict uglier, as this military probably will cooperate with Iran and other anti-Israel states that have an interest in maintaining this conflict as they aim to destroy Israel.

[Nivsch]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Bingo!

Then there is no real opression here.

Doesnt it seem problematic to you that the explanation to oct 7th is that Israel exists (and not really the settlements as we now see)?

Because then oct 7th is self justified and the Palestinians have a complete exemption from any responsibility.

Edited January 20 by Nivsch

[Danioover9000]

@zazen

1 hour ago, zazen said:

Seems pretty clear what’s being said - many pro Israelis will struggle to process it because the Israeli state has drip fed propaganda that’s slowly seeped in like microplastics from water. 

Or they privately agree but publicly deny this sentiment.

Or maybe it’s just late where you are.

 

   Oh you got to be careful Zazen, this might actually be reported as a threat to doxxing. Or the joke is lost to me and I misinterpreted.😂

[Danioover9000]

@Nivsch

5 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Then there is no real opression here.

Doesnt it seems problematic to you that the explanation to oct 7th is that Israel exists (and not really the settlements as we now see)?

 

   Also, even if current Israeli in Israel, all the population plus the leaders just gave up, packed their bags and left to another country or land, the USA's few politicians in the past, and a few generals made it very clear that an Israel state will still be their even if they have to make one their own, meaning there's a vested interest by the Americans for the state of Israel to be there. I'm beginning to think there's simply no good solution out of this conflict at all as long as America's hegemony and interests are there in that region, and some of Russia's interests are also there in that region. This is a long proxy war from those two other countries.

   On top of all of that, even if HAMMAs is destroyed by IDF, HAMMAs is a symptom of a deeper problem that'll just generate another terrorist group as long as living conditions for the West Bank and Gaza are sub optimal for Palestinians. It's so bleak for this conflict and the world.

Edited January 20 by Danioover9000

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Then there is no real opression here.

Of course there is.

That's like saying the British didn't oppress the Native Americans.

[Nivsch]

@Nabd Almost every state ever started from a dynamic of new people that have settled there. This is by definition.

[Lila9]

2 minutes ago, Nabd said:

Yes because the land was colonized.

This doesn't mean the land was empty.

Have you ever read books on the region or do you just parrot The stories that allow you to sleep at night?

What do you mean by historical connection? Religion wise yes, its holy land and you don't need to colonize and massacre a population to live there. Jews lived there already before European Jews came.

Again, don't start with this homeland bullshit. Levantines are natives, they descendend from Canaanites and Arameans. Just like Oriental Jews who are also Canaanites.

Religion isn't a race.

Judaism is older than Islam.

There was a Jewish state on this land for a very long time, for a thousands of years, this is why it's a homeland for the Jewish religion which is an ethical group too.

Muslims homeland is Saudia.

[Nivsch]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course there is.

That's like saying the British didn't oppress the Native Americans.

Roughly every country in the world has been created from some version of this.

[Raze]

 

[Lila9]

42 minutes ago, Nabd said:

Stop being a devil.

They are from US, Poland, Germany, Austria, France, Russia etc.

Yes they were but this doesn't give them the right to take other peoples land.

And don't start with this bullshit of homeland.

European Jews are European. Oriental Jews are oriental.

Your grandfather was persecuted by Germans. Not by Middle easterners.

If you can't see this devilry and genuinely feel the paradoxical situation of Israel and Palestine because people born there are in a paradox, then you are just too blind and you extremely biased, just sheep behavior.

You live in Syria dude, you are highly biased against Israel from birth, the Arab world is known for its sheep mentality. I don't know how brainwashing they did with you there but it seems serious. 

 

[Nivsch]

@Nabd Not at all.

YOU guys say now that oct 7th is a self- justified action Israel cannot do nothing to prevent but to deffend itself physically. Is that sounds fair in your opinion towards the Israelis?

What I say is that an existance of a state you don't like is NOT a justification to terror because this is too barbaric childish justification to use because Israel won't go anywhere.

The truth is that the Palestinians are completely free and sorverign in their area and they have to take responsibility to take the offers for a state they have got countless times and refused.

Edited January 21 by Nivsch

[Danioover9000]

@Raze

11 minutes ago, Raze said:

 

   This is just counter productive and counter intuitive for Israel and IDF to do this. Easily can see how this will just keep terrorism growing in that region. 

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Roughly every country in the world has been created from some version of this.

Yes, but now we live in the 21st century, where such things are no longer acceptable. Because we're more morally developed. That's the cost of development: you can't act like a genocidal barbarian.

100 years ago you could kick a dog, no problem. Today it is considered a crime in the developed world.

Edited January 21 by Leo Gura

[Nivsch]

13 minutes ago, Nabd said:

This is you shying away from admitting directly that you know deep inside that Israel is a colonial state which is made by displacing natives and taking their homes.

War is human thing yes, but your logic is very backward and barbaric and comes from ancient times of barbaric warfare. Similar to what Europeans did with natives elsewhere.

This is fine. But notice that this means you admit that terrorism is the basis of Israel, which justify Hamas and any other terrorist activity because the obly language people like you understand is violence and killings.

No. Actually it shows me you don't want to face what I said.