Posted January 20 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Lila9 said: In 2001, a Hamas terrorist killed 16 teenagers by blowing himself in the the Dolphinarium club. How is that related to Freedom for Palestine? I don't know Horrible. This cycle needs to stop but it must be acknowledged why it exists. If Palestinians are denied a state, but are controlled internally in West Bank and externally in Gaza - leaving them in a limbo - that’s basically apartheid and occupation. That’s what the situations been and what Israel wants to maintain as the status quo, which endangers its image and its people by continuous resistance. While watching the above video keep in mind the definition of terrorism: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims. Edited January 20 by zazen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20 41 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: There's no mystery to it. When you back people into a corner and oppress them for decades, they don't sit quitely, they lash out. Psychology 101. It's like if you had a child who you locked in a cage for years, and then you act surprised when the child breaks free and attacks you. This is not the case, it's a simplistic explanation that is also incorrect. Black people were oppressed and didn't do what Hamas did, women were oppressed and didn't act like that, Jews lived in ghettos and didn't act like that. There were many oppressed groups throughout history that didn't engage in such actions. Here, there is another factor explaining this behavior, which is irrational and illogical. Can you see that? I wouldn't say that Palestinians are oppressed by Israel, those people live on their own, have leaders, and a belief system for which they are responsible. They are not forced to be Jews and speak Hebrew, they are not forced to do anything against their will which isn't puts the lives of Israelies at risk. They live in large, decent houses, have businesses, universities, and receive help and donations from the UN and the rest of the world. While they are not hungry for food, they have many terrorists, and their main motives in attacking Israel include toxic Islamic ideology, destruction of the Israeli state, no peace nor co-existence, hatred, and religious goals like liberating Al Aqsa from the infidels. Any defense Israel takes, any military force it employs, is due to the danger posed by those terrorists against Israelis. If they ceased having terror groups and focused on building a healthy state, that would be ideal for Israel. The last thing Israel, as a minority in the Middle East wants is to have enemies. "Never be afraid to sit a while and think.” ― Lorraine Hansberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20 36 minutes ago, zazen said: Horrible. This cycle needs to stop but it must be acknowledged why it exists. If Palestinians are denied a state, but are controlled internally in West Bank and externally in Gaza - leaving them in a limbo - that’s basically apartheid and occupation. That’s what the situations been and what Israel wants to maintain as the status quo, which endangers its image and its people by continuous resistance. They are free to have a state, but not at the expense of our lives. Could anything grantee that they stop trying to kill us once they receive more power? They know what they really really want, we know what they really really want, and this is not a two state solution. "Never be afraid to sit a while and think.” ― Lorraine Hansberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20 7 minutes ago, Lila9 said: Black people were oppressed and didn't do what Hamas did, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nat_Turner's_slave_rebellion 7 minutes ago, Lila9 said: women were oppressed and didn't act like that, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffragette_bombing_and_arson_campaign 7 minutes ago, Lila9 said: Jews lived in ghettos and didn't act like that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_resistance_in_German-occupied_Europe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20 45 minutes ago, kenway said: The buildings would have been wired and prepared for detonation, so the assumption is that the village is empty. But that's not the point in this instance. These are peoples homes. Have you ever heard the phrase: "Home is where the heart is?" or "There's no place like home?" Homes with hopes, and dreams, and memories. With 85% of residential properties now destroyed, and 1.9 million people currently homeless and on the precipice of critical starvation, these videos accumulate along with other pieces of evidence to demonstrate patterns of clear intent. What if those homes are filled with weapons with the potential to kill many people? What if the IDF wouldn't have bombed it and ignored it? And these terrorists would have returned to this village with the weapons and would have started launching rockets towards Israel? Why do we have to put their sentimental connection to their homes over our lives and safety? Who started this war with the intention to destroy us, and not for the first time? So they are aware to the consequences of their actions, they knew Israel will response in bombing and decided to lunch attack on Israel despite that. "Never be afraid to sit a while and think.” ― Lorraine Hansberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Lila9 said: They are free to have a state, but not at the expense of our lives. Could anything grantee that they stop trying to kill us once they receive more power? They know what they really really want, we know what they really really want, and this is not a two state solution. Palestinians can’t build a state if they don’t have one to begin with. Can anything guarantee that Israel will stop expanding settlements when they have power? Oh wait, they already do have that power and are doing exactly that - misusing it. That would go a long way in establishing more of a climate for peace. You left out this clip of Bibi from my post which I think deserves more attention. Keep in mind the definition of terrorism while watching the above: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims. Like your bio says: Never be afraid to sit a while and think 💭 Edited January 20 by zazen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20 (edited) 1 hour ago, Leo Gura said: There's no mystery to it. When you back people into a corner and oppress them for decades, they don't sit quitely, they lash out. Psychology 101. It's like if you had a child who you locked in a cage for years, and then you act surprised when the child breaks free and attacks you. Can you give example(s) to this oppresion? A really tangible one. Because really what I hear in this thread is never a clear explanation but rather always something very vague like an aljazeera's soundtruck. Edited January 20 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20 (edited) 20 minutes ago, kenway said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nat_Turner's_slave_rebellion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffragette_bombing_and_arson_campaign https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_resistance_in_German-occupied_Europe Yes, I can understand why black people did that, I can understand why women did that and why Jews did that, they really had no other choice. Palestinians are richer, receive lots of money and donations, under UN sponsorship and so many human rights organizations, not starving, have religious freedom and living well compared to other Arab countries. Why they attack Israelies so brutality? And I'm not talking about merely militants, I'm talking about innocent civilians and children that Hamas deliberately killed. There MUST be an ideological factor invloved. Saying that it's just because they are oppressed is an intellectual laziness. Edited January 20 by Lila9 "Never be afraid to sit a while and think.” ― Lorraine Hansberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20 8 minutes ago, zazen said: Keep in mind the definition of terrorism while watching the above: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims. Never be afraid to sit a while and think 💭 This seems cut out of its context, heavily edited, and too short to make any realistic conclusion of that. "Never be afraid to sit a while and think.” ― Lorraine Hansberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20 6 minutes ago, Lila9 said: This seems cut out of its context, heavily edited, and too short to make any realistic conclusion of that. Seems pretty clear what’s being said - many pro Israelis will struggle to process it because the Israeli state has drip fed propaganda that’s slowly seeped in like microplastics from water. Or they privately agree but publicly deny this sentiment. Or maybe it’s just late where you are. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20 18 minutes ago, Lila9 said: There MUST be an ideological factor invloved. I agree with you on this, except that when seen through a neutral lens it is obvious that there are horrific ideologies being played out on both sides. In any event, as always it is innocent civilians that suffer the most. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20 2 minutes ago, zazen said: This is good advice. I'm taking it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20 Just now, zazen said: Seems pretty clear what’s being said - many pro Israelis will struggle to process it because the Israeli state has drip fed propaganda that’s slowly seeped in like microplastics from water. Or they privately agree but publicly deny this sentiment. Or maybe it’s just late where you are. Could you elaborate what you understand from Benjamin's footage because I'm not sure how from that you got into conclusion that Israel is a terrorist state? "Never be afraid to sit a while and think.” ― Lorraine Hansberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Nabd said: But when you see a Pole who took your home and your family members were killed then you are traumatized that killing children is normal to you. But that is the thing. Nobody did that before the Arabs decided to start the war and almost won. Only than, the Jews started to play more dirty and occasionaly. Not as a method. The ones who started the chain of trauma were the Palestinians. Edited January 20 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lila9 said: This is not the case, it's a simplistic explanation that is also incorrect. Black people were oppressed and didn't do what Hamas did, 1) There were slave rebellions where slavemasters were slaughtered. And you would say, "Oh, the poor slavemaster's daughter was raped." Yes she was. Because she was part of a system of injustice and what goes around comes around. 2) Black people were given equal rights eventually. And if that didn't happen there would surely be riots, violence, and terrorism. Quote Jews lived in ghettos and didn't act like that. Muslims and Arabs are rather radical people given the harsh envirnoment they had to survive in. There is a cultural factor here. Quote I wouldn't say that Palestinians are oppressed by Israel, those people live on their own, have leaders, and a belief system for which they are responsible. They are not forced to be Jews and speak Hebrew, they are not forced to do anything against their will which isn't puts the lives of Israelies at risk. They are forced to give up land! You are conveniently ignoring the elephant in the room! And they are not allowed to have a soverign state with their own military. That's what all this is about. Quote Any defense Israel takes, any military force it employs, is due to the danger posed by those terrorists against Israelis. If they ceased having terror groups and focused on building a healthy state, that would be ideal for Israel. The foundation of every healthy state is soverign military security over its boarders. Israel explicitly denies this to the Palestinians. Quote The last thing Israel, as a minority in the Middle East wants is to have enemies. That's empty words. Israel wants land more than they want peace. 1 hour ago, Nivsch said: Can you give example(s) to this oppresion? A really tangible one. Because really what I hear in this thread is never a clear explanation but rather always something very vague like an aljazeera's soundtruck. It's not vague at all. You can see Israeli settlements growing like a cancer into Palestinian territory, and then those settlers engage in violence too. And then this leads to militarized security checkpoints across their land which is highly intrusive. Edited January 20 by Leo Gura You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20 3 minutes ago, Nabd said: Because they colonized a land that is not theirs which in the mind of some Palestinians is justification for killing all Israelis. European Jews could've came into middle east normally or as refugees like Armenians and Assyrians and Greeks or even Italians who fled into Syria after numerous Ottoman massacres or other wars. People took them in and shelterd them from further killings. But when you see a Pole who took your home and your family members were killed then you are traumatized that killing children is normal to you. Its quite simple I don't know why we need to explain this. Palestinians should not pay for European anti semitism. Israelis are used by western powers to safeguard their interests just like others in middle east. They didn't colonize it, they never imposed Hebrew and Jewish culture on Palestinians. They don't have a home state to return to, unlike real colonizations such as France and Britain. They don't fall under the classic definition of a colony, this is an individual case. They were prescued elsewhere and returned to their historical homeland to solve a problem, it was a matter of survival. Muslim Arabs have so much land, yet they started a war against Jews, even though it was no one's land under the British mandate. "Never be afraid to sit a while and think.” ― Lorraine Hansberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: It's not vague at all. You can see Israeli settlements growing like a cancer into Palestinian territory, and then those settlers engage in violence too. I agreed that it has to stop but does it really a physical opression? It is not like we settled in their villages and cities, but only couple of km around them in parts of the open area. I am still not convinced they are "opressed", not even close to the level someone will want to kill women and children because of that, but I do agree there is an unfairness that has to stop. Edited January 20 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Nivsch said: not even close to the level someone will want to kill women and children because of that But that's clearly how they feel and how they act. It's like you kicked a dog and then tell onlookers, "I'm not convinced he's in pain", while the dog is running after you, snapping his teeth at you. Maybe you should just listen to the dog. Edited January 20 by Leo Gura You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20 10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: And they are not allowed to have a soverign state with their own military. But they got countless offers to have a sorverign state. 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: But that's clearly how they feel. It's like you kicked a dog and then tell onlookers, "I'm not convinced he's in pain", while the dog is running after you, snapping his teeth at you. Maybe you should just listen to the dog. But nobody kicked anyone before the Palestinians decided to start a war and almost won (wikipedia). Only when the Jews were cornered and almost killed, only then they started to play dirty occasionaly but at this point this is a jungle. And in the jungle everyone will do anything. This is an uttetly CIVIL war. The whole thinking process is being shut down by the ancient brain. Edited January 20 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
