Posted January 19 14 minutes ago, kenway said: So if we're going to play that game... ... and Alan Dershowitz? Okay. But in any event it should probably be remembered that death count figures are seldom disputed by neither Gaza nor Israel. Yet, more reliable than organizations related to Hamas and which probably funded by Iran, Qatar etc. "Never be afraid to sit a while and think.” ― Lorraine Hansberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 19 26 minutes ago, Lila9 said: Yet, more reliable than organizations related to Hamas and which probably funded by Iran, Qatar etc. Very unlikely. Plus you're missing the paradox of your own subtle biases. The point is that "links to Hamas" is an allegation made by a compromised controversial right-wing pro-Israeli organisation. ... with Alan Dershowitz and Douglas Murray on the board lol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 19 The same Alan Dershowitz that has a history of falsification (and not paying up on bets)... @Lila9 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 19 (edited) Sorry for late replies ya'll. @Lila9 On 2024-01-16 at 6:21 PM, Lila9 said: Thomas Hand, Emily's father, the girl who was kidnapped by Hamas, is responding to the claims that Israel is an apartheid state. I absolutely agree with him, he speaks the truth. No disrespect to you or @Nivsch, @Vrubel but lately you and other pro Israeli, and sometimes pro Palestinians keep on bringing evidence of shorts or clips, but not make the effort to also share the original video: And after doing some body language, verbal, statement and discourse analysis, I came to the conclusion that this video that Thomas Hands was being mostly defensive, has genuine defensiveness but also is lying here and there via omission, withholding details. Generally Thomas's body language and posture is strange. Victims of an evil will typically be defensive and generally have closed in body language, crossed arms, prayer/stippling of hands, shoulders sometimes hunched in, to all appear smaller. Yet Thomas's body is so open here, hands resting widely on sofa, taking space, signaling dominance and confidence which IMO looks so juxtaposed to a victim here. Also Piers throwing into his opening statement as him being 'Irish' to build instant nationalist rapport and trust with Thomas Hands who also is 'Irish'. Especially in terms of discourse it's emotionally manipulative. From the flowers, to pictures of Thomas Hand's daughter, to Thomas Hands wearing a 'white' pull over, in colour psychology in the west white represents purity and goodness, and also throughout Piers Morgan asking soft ball questions to him. And that outburst he had on your clip...there are a few moments there that are red flags to me, especially when he goes and attacks the protesters when they chant 'from the river to the sea.' but Thomas omitted the last part 'And Palestine will be free.." Here is especially IMO a big red flag because now he's displaying aggressive body language behavior to just the protesters, not HAMMAs, to the western Palestinian protesters. Also before Thomas's rant he displayed a strong sign of disgust to Piers Morgan when Piers was asking and framing the protests. Video below explains that slogan, between 45-50 minutes in. Also I suggest you watch that PBD podcast with Bassam Youssef: So IMO, body language to me from him is he's mostly defensive with some emotional manipulation here and there. Decide for yourselves if he's being genuine, IMO he mostly is, but how he communicated is suspect here. Edited January 19 by Danioover9000 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 19 Fantastic coverage of a potential future problems for Israel: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 19 (edited) I think Thomas was frustrated from the misleading view of the interviewer and the world crowd opinion that just can't see what we see every day here and he was just so desperate from the opacity of everyone that are hijacked by the anti-Israel propaganda, including the relation to Arabs that is better here in many facets even in comparison to many Arab states around, and the world just don't understand this and keep parroting these nonesense slogans. So he felt he has no choice but to somehow "explode" on him here and it was great he just nailed it. He spoke what every Israeli feels inside him. Edited January 19 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 19 On 12/01/2024 at 5:58 PM, Danioover9000 said: @kenway I've watched the South African part, and currently watching Israel's part. Generally, you're not missing much, just linguistically Israel reframing and distorting and deflecting with use of sophistry, undermining the definitions of genocide, good dodging and deflecting. I will be doing a body language analysis on both parts as I generally feel that some speakers on either side, just some, have nervousness or defensiveness. It's nice to see you. Will you be still doing this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 19 @kenway 48 minutes ago, kenway said: It's nice to see you. Will you be still doing this? Thanks! Yes I will do that, but since I'll be covering about 16 speakers plus some prior context here and there it already feels like a super lengthy analysis, maybe a month of it. I'll do the long version in my other thread but post a shortened one here cuz I was warned for super long posts and I don't want to take up the drama and back and forth already happening here. Proof whether I'm here or not this thread has some spicy moments and exchanges.😁 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 19 @Nivsch 1 hour ago, Nivsch said: I think Thomas was frustrated from the misleading view of the interviewer and the world crowd opinion that just can't see what we see every day here and he was just so desperate from the opacity of everyone that are hijacked by the anti-Israel propaganda, including the relation to Arabs that is better here in many facets even in comparison to many Arab states around, and the world just don't understand this and keep parroting these nonesense slogans. So he felt he has no choice but to somehow "explode" on him here and it was great he just nailed it. He spoke what every Israeli feels inside him. Understandable given that, from my recollection, Thomas has lost a total of 2 lovers so far, a potential third if that female hostage survived due to her being good natured to the daughter, and that he has experienced a hostage situation indirectly being the father of one of the hostages here. Obviously most people won't be able to be unbiased and neutral, even I'd feel crossed if a group did that to me. After the analysis, I tend to exercise some caution because rhetorically if you appear a 'victim' or 'traumatized', in the public eye, that's a super moot and Bailey fallacy there, because even if I soft ball and question a bit, out of good will, if I'm so much perceived as attacking that person, with that victim card and trauma shield, I'd get Reverse Uno'd into censorship. So Piers Morgan was definitely tied down here, and had to for optics soft ball him and his situation. Minor critique from me to Piers, is that moment in the video, last 5 minutes, that one he should have continued questioning Thomas and allowed the daughter to leave. Also some good statements by Thomas here actually, from the opening he does say that his daughter mostly speaks Hebrew, some Arabic, and not that much English. I believe he was shielding her and trying to minimize Piers from asking too much questions at his daughter, and IMO this parts a bit mixed for me because if Thomas didn't want his daughter getting interviewed or questioned, or in view of cameras at all to begin with, he could have told his daughter to wait in her room or play with someone else and told Piers that his daughter wasn't feeling well or some other to excuse her from the interview. Instead, she's there with the Dad, in what looks like a setting and discourse, I assume IDF or public relations set up that room with the flowers and his daughter's pictures behind him. Again generally his body language to me is too open for someone who really should be defensive given the situation, unless that psychotherapy did some kind of hypnosis technique to him or some other psychological technique to make Thomas trigger this 'confidence' or 'arrogance' that he was from his posture. which is contributing to this juxtaposition throughout the interview before that last outburst towards the end. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20 (edited) Israel is probably lying about how many Hamas they have killed. They claim they’ve killed 6-8,000. But we also know that about 16,000 of the Palestinians killed in Gaza were women and children. That would mean all or almost all of the men they killed were Hamas fighters. That is unlikely, Hamas is a volunteer army that was numbered at 30,000, most Palestinian men weren’t members. Edited January 20 by Raze Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20 12 hours ago, Lila9 said: Jews were in Israel and lived in Israel for thousands of years They are white. Semites are not white. Therefore they do not belong there. What is a polish doing as PM of that land? No issue with Arab Jews, but Palestine belongs to Arabs (Jew or not), not to white europeans. They are clearly wrongly put there. 12 hours ago, Lila9 said: commiting deadly terror attacks rape, beheading, burning people alive, cutting stomaches doesn't justify this. So did Israel during Nakba. It goes both ways. Israel does it far more historically. 12 hours ago, Lila9 said: Currently Russia stands with Hamas and supports it, which implies about the similarities between the two They have common enemy that is why. No other reason. 12 hours ago, Lila9 said: But will they stop the terror attacks? I don't think so. If they do not then the world will stop supporting Palestine. Give it a shot. 12 hours ago, Lila9 said: Very likely came from anti-Israel biased sources who simp Hamas. I trust Western sources more than any Israeli source. Israeli is a propaganda machine that matches China and Russia. 12 hours ago, Lila9 said: If any way to negotiate doesn't work, money must work, in his stage organge capitalist perception. He tried to bribe them, thinking that he can buy peace. He tried to buy his chair as PM. Nothing else. He is corrupt as fuck. If he cared about Israel he would not try to undermine rule of law like he tried. 12 hours ago, Lila9 said: but Hitler? Lol, not. Zionism is similar to Nazism that is why I said Hitler. I would put him at Putin level. 12 hours ago, Lila9 said: The land was stolen from Jews before it was "stolen" from Arabs. Jews are Arab. Arab is where they lived. White pepole do not belong there. Jews lived and come from the land, no issue there. However, I am very against dumping European Jews there. If they only kept Arab Jews and made a state with them, where they had a small part (since they were minority) it would be fine (if they did not want to be on same state as the muslims for whatever reason). The European Jews could have come there after if they wanted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20 12 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said: They absolutely hate that US is the leader of world and seek to dethrone them using cowardly tactics. We are moving from a unipolar world to a multipolar world. Considering that a monopoly tends to be corrupted due to its absolute power, maybe it can be a good thing. Just like a dictator/party is bad for a country, 1 country ruling the world could also be bad for the world. If you dislike the USA, go to China or Russia or India. Choices in time tend to reduce abuse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20 (edited) 11 hours ago, Vrubel said: Whats you problem with Ukrainians. They too are nowadays not savages unlike the Palestinians. (I am referring to the broad culture Well they have not even been through 1/10 of what Palestinians have been through by Israel, especially in Gaza. Russians are angels in comparison to Israel (considering the civilian death toll is 2.5 times less even though the war has been on for 20 more months and the population is 20 times larger). Therefore, of course they will be civilized and all. Also Ukranians never got their hands on Russian civilians. When they bombed a russian city recently market and killed 25 civilians I doubt people in Ukraine care. Now multiply the suffering 20x and you will see how "civilized" they would be if they got their hands on Russian civilians. Bottom line: It is not that X country has more civilized people, it is about X country has not suffered enough. All humans become savages if you treat them like one. Israelis openly want to wipe out Gaza and do genocide just because 800 of their civilians got killed. 800, imagine. Just in 2014 Israeli killed 3x the civilians in Gaza. Imagine how people in Gaza must feel. Issue here fundamentally is that Palestinians have barely hurt Israelians therefore their hatred by default will be lesser. The entitlement of Israelis is out of the world. @Lila9 @Nivsch They want to do genocide just because 800 of their civilians got killed. Meanwhile Gazans that have lost far more, should not want to do genocide? Your logic here... Edited January 20 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20 (edited) @Karmadhi 20 minutes ago, Karmadhi said: Well they have not even been through 1/10 of what Palestinians have been through by Israel, especially in Gaza. Russians are angels in comparison to Israel (considering the civilian death toll is 2.5 times less even though the war has been on for 20 more months and the population is 20 times larger). Therefore, of course they will be civilized and all. Also Ukranians never got their hands on Russian civilians. When they bombed a russian city recently market and killed 25 civilians I doubt people in Ukraine care. Now multiply the suffering 20x and you will see how "civilized" they would be if they got their hands on Russian civilians. Bottom line: It is not that X country has more civilized people, it is about X country has not suffered enough. All humans become savages if you treat them like one. Israelis openly want to wipe out Gaza and do genocide just because 800 of their civilians got killed. 800, imagine. Just in 2014 Israeli killed 3x the civilians in Gaza. Imagine how people in Gaza must feel. Issue here fundamentally is that Palestinians have barely hurt Israelians therefore their hatred by default will be lesser. The entitlement of Israelis is out of the world. @Lila9 @Nivsch They want to do genocide just because 800 of their civilians got killed. Meanwhile Gazans that have lost far more, should not want to do genocide? Your logic here... Someone compared what's going in Israel/Palestine conflict to the Russia/Ukraine conflict? That's a wild comparison. Arguably Ukraine before the war was doung way better than Palestine, and even during the wars what's happening in Gaza is far worse than in the Ukraine, far more worse. A better comparison, for scale, is this and WW2. When Allies bombed Nazi Germany, 40% of buildings destoryed in total. That 3 armies in coalition, against one big country. Compare that to the 70% of Gazan buildings destroyed, by just 1 army, because of oct 7. WW2 started and dragged UK into it after both Germany and Russia invaded and split Poland in half, resulting later in the iron curtain and Warsaw, and so on And even if there are some Israelis sympathetic to tbe humanitarian crisis in Gaza, if they expressed support for Palestinians, they go to jail apparently, so even the Israelis within can't just vote for some other leader to replace Netanyahu and oust him democratically. Edited January 20 by Danioover9000 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20 1 hour ago, Karmadhi said: We are moving from a unipolar world to a multipolar world. Considering that a monopoly tends to be corrupted due to its absolute power, maybe it can be a good thing. Just like a dictator/party is bad for a country, 1 country ruling the world could also be bad for the world. If you dislike the USA, go to China or Russia or India. Choices in time tend to reduce abuse. We are not moving anywhere. We are in a rough patch that happens every other decade where the global order become disrupted due to wars, recession etc. US would probably have less power than it used to because others are catching up. But no one is ready to dethrone US from it's position yet. India is a democracy so there is a chance. But they are free to work with the US and share the same values. Russia/China/Islamic Terrorist states are getting themselves out of the game. The only reason they were in at all was because of oil and cheap manufacturing which might not be so relevant in future. For ex India could be a manufacturing hub like what china used to be. And once oil is out of the picture, Russia would have zero bargaining power over the world. The only concern for the US is their debt levels. If the global market shifts such that it dethrones US, then what kept Russia/China in power would also shift. And US would have much more leverage even in the new order. Countries that priorities freedom, individual rights, freedom of expression, human rights would come out on top every time. Others are pulling off an opportunistic attempt to fish when the water is too muddy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20 Unfortunately this war isn’t only about Israel and Hamas but the western perspective verses terror organizations. If you stand with Hamas you stand with rapping, sadism and killing babies. Hamas is only a proxy. Iran and Russia are the real players in this war. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20 @Leo Gura It’s already proven that Hamas is using Gazanians as human shields and using facilities like Hospitals, schools and mosques to look innocent. IDF is one of the strongest armies in the world. If they would want to kill as many Palestinians as possible the number of casualties would be in the hundreds of thousands by now(Even million+). The elimination of Hamas is both for safety and revenge for obvious reasons. But the bigger picture here is Iran and Qatar financing this organization groups(mostly the leaders). Hamas leaders worth over $10B. Evil at its finest. No matter how Israel will behave with Palestinians it’s not gonna change anything because it was never about them. In Israel there are over two millions Arabs, guess how many live in Arab countries? It would be interesting to see how things unfold but honestly I am not very optimistic I guess God likes action movies Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20 1 hour ago, Heaven said: Unfortunately this war isn’t only about Israel and Hamas but the western perspective verses terror organizations. If you stand with Hamas you stand with rapping, sadism and killing babies. Hamas is only a proxy. Iran and Russia are the real players in this war. Iran is okay with sacrificing not only Palestinians but also hamas itself just to make Israel look bad. It's important to not take the bait and not make deals with devils. As long as hamas or any Islamic Terrorist organization exists, you would have to deal with them. Better to wipe them off when you still can. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20 1 hour ago, Heaven said: Unfortunately this war isn’t only about Israel and Hamas but the western perspective verses terror organizations. If you stand with Hamas you stand with rapping, sadism and killing babies. Hamas is only a proxy. Iran and Russia are the real players in this war. Iran tried their best to keep low, but their firing of missiles into Pakistan had their cover blown. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
