Posted January 19 23 hours ago, Leo Gura said: What lead to Oct 7th was the decades-long Israeli policy of settlement and indefinite stalling of any kind of long-term peace deal that recognizes the rights and soveriegnty of Palestinians. The Jews will never give up on conquering their God promised holy land. 23 hours ago, Leo Gura said: And if my "used" you mean some Hamas guy slept in one apartment in a high-rise of 500 units, so what? That doesn't justify destroying the building. The thing is ground troops need to move in with air support otherwise it is just a suicide mission. Terrorists would pop in and out of buildings and tunnels and shoot with bullets and RPGs; you see even with air support, over 170 soldiers have died fighting in Gaza. So in conclusion the buildings and tunnels must be destroyed before moving in; lets not forget about the rockets and rocket launch sites, in case you guys missed it, here are two video: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 19 4 minutes ago, jaylimix said: The thing is ground troops need to move in with air support otherwise it is just a suicide mission. Terrorists would pop in and out of buildings and tunnels and shoot with bullets and RPGs; you see even with air support, over 170 soldiers have died fighting in Gaza. So in conclusion the buildings and tunnels must be destroyed before moving in; 👍 A decent point. 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 19 15 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said: And I am not saying your position is flawed here so something. You are totally valid in protesting for the lives of civilians. I am just focusing on the larger issue at play here which does not contradict your position. The larger issue is terrorism spreading worldwide resulting in even more human costs in the long run. I have said it before, why I stand with Israel, and it has to do with The World Order. I am against the world order by : Islamic States + Dictatorship + Communism i.e. Palestine/Iran + Russia + China + North Korea Two of the above have already attacked their neighbors; the CCP is planning conquering Taiwan whilst killing Vietnamese and Philippines fishermen; North Korea is always threatening and it remains to be seen what they would do. I stand with Israel, America, and the Allies, the pinnacle of human civilization. From village chiefs to Monarchy to Congress/Parliament. From totalitarian to secular democracy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 19 2 minutes ago, Nivsch said: 👍 A decent point. My points are always stellar. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 19 (edited) 59 minutes ago, jaylimix said: Only around 16 out of 36 hospitals in Gaza are “minimally or partially functioning” after more than three months of conflict. that's good to know thanks for sharing, but the idea that they are "minimally" functioning does indicate that all of them have been subjected to some amount of destruction and prevention of their operation. The main point was about Israel careless bombardment or attack on hospitals, the remaining ones are already on their way for to completely stop operating. Two-thirds of Gaza’s hospitals have now ceased functioning and losing Nasser would further curtail the limited trauma care still available. Two other hospitals – al-Aqsa and the Gaza European – are also at risk of closure according to the UN. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/jordan-says-southern-gaza-hospital-badly-damaged-by-israeli-shelling-nearby-2024-01-17/ Gaza: Khan Younis battle threatens biggest hospital still working https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/19/israel-gaza-war-largest-remaining-hospital-nasser-khan-younis-attack-fears-strike 3 hours ago, zazen said: If the reason isn’t obviously to destroy Palestinian history or make Gaza uninhabitable then I look forward to the creative reasons. No other creative reasons, It has been officially stated by Netanyahu no Palestinian statehood would be allowed, I don't see any other interpretation for this other than an admission to ethnic cleansing. Edited January 19 by lina Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 19 https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/statement-unicef-deputy-executive-director-ted-chaiban-upon-conclusion-his-visit Full statement from UNICEF - 18th Jan 2024:- GAZA/ NEW YORK, 18 January 2024 - “I have just finished a three-day visit to the Gaza Strip, where I have been able to coordinate with local and international organizations about the emergency response and take stock of humanitarian operations since the last time I was in the Gaza Strip two months ago. But more than that, I was able to meet with children and their families suffering some of the most horrific conditions I have ever seen. “Since my last visit, the situation has gone from catastrophic to near collapse. UNICEF has described the Gaza Strip as the most dangerous place in the world to be a child. We have said this is a war on children. But these truths do not seem to be getting through. Of the nearly 25,000 people reported to have been killed in the Gaza Strip since the escalation in hostilities, up to 70 per cent are reported to be women and children. The killing of children must cease immediately. “On Tuesday, I met an 11-year-old girl called Sama at Al-Nasser Hospital in Khan Younis. She was skipping with friends when they were hit by shrapnel from a bombardment. The shrapnel sliced through Sama’s abdomen, forcing her into surgery to remove her spleen. She is recovering in hospital, isolated from everyone around her because she is now immunocompromised in a war zone full of disease and infection. “10 minutes later I met 13-year-old Ibrahim. He was in a designated shelter with his family, in an area they were told was safe, when everything collapsed around them. Ibrahim’s hand was badly damaged and quickly became infected. Without medicine, gangrene took hold and he ultimately lost his arm during an amputation without anaesthetic. Ibrahim’s mother, Amani, who accompanied him to the south of the strip for life-saving treatment in Al-Nasser asked for help reaching her remaining six children and husband who had remained north of Gaza City. She has not heard from them in two months. “A matter of hours after we left, many families fled Al-Nasser hospital as fighting closed in on the area. “Over 1.9 million people, or nearly 85 per cent of Gaza’s population, is now displaced including many who have been displaced multiple times. Over a million of them are in Rafah, resulting in a patchwork of makeshift shelters and sites that have made the small town nearly unrecognisable. “The sheer mass of civilians on the border is hard to fathom and the conditions they live in are inhumane. Water is scarce and poor sanitation is inescapable. The cold and rain this week created rivers of waste. The little food that is available doesn’t meet children’s unique nutritional needs. As a result, thousands of children are malnourished and sick. “Two months ago, cases of diarrhoea were up 40 per cent from before the escalation in hostilities. By mid-December, 71,000 cases were recorded among children under five, a more than 4000 per cent increase since the war began. “This is nothing short of a staggering decline in conditions for the children of Gaza. If this decline persists, we could see deaths due to indiscriminate conflict compounded by deaths due to disease and hunger. We need a major breakthrough. “This starts with an end to the intense bombardment, which is not only killing thousands, but is also impeding the delivery of aid to survivors. We have to get more trucks in, do so via more crossings, and with far more efficient inspection processes. Before the conflict more than 500 trucks entered the Gaza Strip every day. When I was there in November, about 60 aid trucks a day entered. Now, it is about 130 trucks a day alongside an average of 30 commercial trucks a day. This is with the opening of a second crossing point but it still remains wholly inadequate. We are trying to drip assistance through a straw to meet an ocean of need. “There must be fewer restrictions on the kind of aid we can bring in, such as generators for water pumps and pipes to repair water facilities, which are critical to restore the water and sanitation services essential for people’s survival. “Once aid gets into the Gaza Strip, our ability to distribute it becomes a matter of life and death. It is imperative that access restrictions are lifted, reliable ground communications ensured, and movement of humanitarian supplies facilitated to ensure those who have been without aid for days receive desperately needed assistance. And, we have to get commercial traffic flowing in Gaza, so that markets can reopen and families can be less dependent on relief. “Finally, we need access to the north. The estimated 250,000 to 300,000 people living in north Gaza have no access to clean water and barely any food. In the first two weeks of January, only 7 of 29 planned aid deliveries have successfully reached their destinations in northern Gaza. Not a single UNICEF convoy has accessed the north of the Gaza Strip in 2024. “Where we have access, we can make a difference. I visited one of the two desalination plants in Khan Younis that UNICEF is supporting and that is providing some water to about 250,000 people. I saw children wearing the winter clothes we brought in and families using soap and sanitary products from hygiene kits that have gotten through. “We cannot wait any longer for a humanitarian ceasefire to end the daily killing and injuring of children and their families, enable the urgent delivery of desperately needed aid and the safe and unconditional release of the two remaining Israeli children still held hostage in Gaza. This cannot go on.” Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 19 (edited) A great achievement to Israel. EU demands the releasing of the hostages as a mandatory condition to a ceasefire. Some saneness and a fresh air Israel is so needed to. Edited January 19 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 19 (edited) @kenway Yes before the war too it was indeed the most dangerous place to be a child in 📖🗡🧨😵💫 Edited January 19 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 19 16 minutes ago, Nivsch said: A great achievement to Israel. EU demands the releasing of the hostages as a mandatory condition to a ceasefire. Some saneness and a fresh air Israel is so needed to. Wow! Finally 🙌 "Never be afraid to sit a while and think.” ― Lorraine Hansberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 19 2 hours ago, jaylimix said: But don't forget that there are many people on the other side that are now rallying behind Israel because of how the world responded after Oct 7. - Denial of atrocities - Silence on sexual crimes - Laughed about atrocities - Flip evil around and projected the evils of Hamas onto Israel - Media blackout on Muslim countries to side with the Palestinians - Want the destruction of a secular democracy and chose instead the survival of an Islamic terrorist state. Think the PLO is any better than Hamas? Think again. Heard of Pay-to-Slay? https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/article-768735 - Made Israelis and Jews felt demonized and all alone, angry and sad. https://x.com/mewapawa/status/1748254131247284437?s=20 This is so accurate, I'm frustrated with human stupidity and irrationality. How can modern humans favor a radical, deadly Islamic terrorist organization over a secular democracy? It requires a twisted perception of reality. It will be laughable as time passes, and people wake up from their delusions, realizing they were on the side holding humanity back. "Never be afraid to sit a while and think.” ― Lorraine Hansberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 19 On 1/17/2024 at 7:24 AM, zazen said: Lol, what a gross projection and distortion of reality. Look in front of your eyes, why you ignore what Hamas and other Palestinian terrorists organization do to Palestinians and Israelies? "Never be afraid to sit a while and think.” ― Lorraine Hansberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 19 On 1/17/2024 at 7:58 AM, Nivsch said: @Lila9 Everyone here talks from his or her trauma and childhood experience and this is what determines their side in this conflict basically. The fact though is that Israel did everything to avoid this war. From a billion dollars smart fence, through 1000s of work permission to Gazans in Israel and millions of dollar poured on Gaza with Israel permission. However Gaza was already saturated from wealth and money and could be the second Dubai, but it didnt help since every dollar was directed into terror. Absolutely. They have responsibility to be better, it's not Israel's responsibility to indoctrinate them from their deadly dogma which honors death and terror over their lives and the lives of their children. This ideology is greater than themselves and is spread across he middle east. Israel's responsibility is to do everything to protect its people from its enemies and do what it can to promote peace. If there is no partner on the other side who wants peace, as it was already proved so many times that Palestinians and the Arab world don't give a genuine shit about peace and see Israel as a state of subhuman Jews pigs who don't deserve to live autonomously, but only under Islamic rules, then there is nothing Israel can do about it. It's up to them to leave the victim mentality, develop, improve and be better humans. "Never be afraid to sit a while and think.” ― Lorraine Hansberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 19 18 minutes ago, Nivsch said: @kenway Yes before the war too it was indeed the most dangerous place to be a child in 📖🗡🧨😵💫 UNICEF disagrees. Do you know more than UNICEF? Also, UNICEF have been to Gaza. Have you? 3 minutes ago, Lila9 said: It will be laughable as time passes, and people wake up from their delusions, realizing they were on the side holding humanity back. It's not about sides. Hamas and Israel are both devils. It's just that one has better weapons than the other. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 19 (edited) @Nivsch @Lila9 Also, seeing as you're both here. How long did you both serve in the IDF for? You might want to declare that to the thread for purposes of transparency. The assumption is that you're no longer being paid by the IDF. Correct? Edited January 19 by kenway Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 19 On 1/18/2024 at 4:18 AM, Karmadhi said: Considering they got their land stolen and treated like shit for decades they act quite civilized I think. Switch your place with theirs for some months then talk. Not stolen, Jews were in Israel and lived in Israel for thousands of years. Even if Palestinians believe that their land was stolen, commiting deadly terror attacks rape, beheading, burning people alive, cutting stomaches doesn't justify this. On 1/18/2024 at 4:18 AM, Karmadhi said: So you suggest they bow down to the thieves that took their land? Most people tend to fight hard for their land. Look at Ukraine. I do not see them bowing down to Russia. No, just to do the minimum and try to find solutions without killing? I think that would be enough. Currently Russia stands with Hamas and supports it, which implies about the similarities between the two. Both of them believe in war for resolving territory issues over communication and negotiation, both of them started the wars and not surprisingly they are good allies with North Korea, China, Iran, Syria, and all the most "good" and "advanced", "developed", "stage green+", if not "turquoise" (I thought that maybe yellow would be an insult for them because they are so so developed), countries in the human society who never violated human rights... Interesting 🤔 On 1/18/2024 at 4:18 AM, Karmadhi said: The West Bank authority would be down for that if they got some normal terms. Meaning 50/50 split. But will they stop the terror attacks? I don't think so. On 1/18/2024 at 4:18 AM, Karmadhi said: There are countless articles from respectable sources saying so. If you want to ignore them that is on you Very likely came from anti-Israel biased sources who simp Hamas. On 1/18/2024 at 4:18 AM, Karmadhi said: The Hamas that your Neo Hitler Leader Benjamin has openly supported and founded? Interesting... If any way to negotiate doesn't work, money must work, in his stage organge capitalist perception. He tried to bribe them, thinking that he can buy peace. This is his common tactic even in the internal Israel politics. He tried to prove to his loyal followers that he puts Hamas under control. It didn't work, obviously. A deadly Islamic ideology is stronger than money. Hate for Jews and the Israeli state is stronger than money. No matter how much Benjamin will try to bribe them, they will remain the same. Mr. Benjamin is not a decent human being, which Israelies are trying to get rid of for a long time, he is a curropted leader, with many flaws, and together with his wife and sons, they obviously give the cringe, but Hitler? Lol, not. On 1/18/2024 at 4:18 AM, Karmadhi said: If Israel minded its own business rather than steal land people would not be stuck in Gaza in the first place. From what I saw on the 1947 borders all the areas near Gaza were Palestine. All the areas Hamas attacked are Palestine. I am sorry for what happened to the people there but they do not belong to live there. It is stolen land. You can make the case about Israel existing but the UN plan of 1947 did not include all the areas near Gaza, the same areas Hamas attacked as Israel. Funny when thieves start crying once they are faced with the consequences of their theft. This is the thing, that Israel minded its own business, was in attempt to create a state for Jews due to the persecution and the Holocoast. The land was stolen from Jews before it was "stolen" from Arabs. Is stealing from the one who stealing from you is stealing? What a philosophical question 🤔 "Never be afraid to sit a while and think.” ― Lorraine Hansberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 19 28 minutes ago, kenway said: UNICEF disagrees. Do you know more than UNICEF? Also, UNICEF have been to Gaza. Have you? It's not about sides. Hamas and Israel are both devils. It's just that one has better weapons than the other. There is devilry in everything in this world, as there is no good without bad. But, the degree of devilry varies, and while Israel has some level of devilry, Hamas has so much more than that. The devilry level is not the same at all and obviously, it's not smart or conscious to call out the one with the least devilry level over the one with the biggest devilry level, ignoring it and justifying it. It's like punishing and demonizing a poor person for stealing from the supermarket products worth $50 while ignoring the rich politician who's stealing his entire career, millions of millions. "Never be afraid to sit a while and think.” ― Lorraine Hansberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 19 21 minutes ago, Lila9 said: There is devilry in everything in this world, as there is no good without bad. But, the degree of devilry varies, and while Israel has some level of devilry, Hamas has so much more than that. The devilry level is not the same at all and obviously, it's not smart or conscious to call out the one with the least devilry level over the one with the biggest devilry level, ignoring it and justifying it. It's like punishing and demonizing a poor person for stealing from the supermarket products worth $50 while ignoring the rich politician who's stealing his entire career, millions of millions. But this is predicated on your relationship with Israel, and specifically, your belief that Israel is at war with Hamas, rather than Israel deliberately ethnically cleansing the Palestinian civilians. Exercise: If it became clear that the ‘war on hamas’ narrative was actually inaccurate, and rather intended to mask an ethnic cleansing campaign against Palestinian civilians, how would that modulate your position on Israel’s devilry relative to Hamas’s? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 19 37 minutes ago, kenway said: @Nivsch @Lila9 Also, seeing as you're both here. How long did you both serve in the IDF for? You might want to declare that to the thread for purposes of transparency. The assumption is that you're no longer being paid by the IDF. Correct? Two years, as required. And no, I don't get paid by IDF lol, I'm an individual and I talk from my own experience and view of the conflict as an Israeli. "Never be afraid to sit a while and think.” ― Lorraine Hansberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 19 1 minute ago, Lila9 said: Two years, as required. And no, I don't get paid by IDF lol, I'm an individual and I talk from my own experience and view of the conflict as an Israeli. Thanks. I figured that might the case but I just thought I'd ask. Appreciated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
