New War In Israel / Gaza

[Raze]

40 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

In that case you would do a special operation to take out the terrorist. But a special forces operation will not work when there are thousands of well-trained terrorists with weapons who has held your mom hostage and use children as shields.

Bombing isn’t working either then, just after Israel claimed it finished in the north Hamas launched tons of rockets from it.

[Karmadhi]

@Bobby_2021 Israeli s army is way bigger and better equipped. Also superior technology. So of course it can be done. What is the problem here?

[Bobby_2021]

6 hours ago, Nivsch said:

3. hamas interest to always maximize civilians casualties to make Israel stop because they know this is our weakness.

Not just Hamas, the entire Arab world is okay sacrificing the lives of civilians of Palestine solely for the purpose of making Israel look bad. Even Egypt and Saudi wanted to side with Israel, but they could not because of peer pressure from the Arab world. They are not willing to make any concessions of any form whatsoever.

6 minutes ago, kenway said:

@Bobby_2021

lol so basically what you're saying is that it would be fine to bomb your mom then?

If my mom is living beside terrorists, then it's a matter of time before she gets bombed anyway. It's not like you have a choice. It is something that is bound to happen sooner than later. If she is kidnapped by terrorists, then there is a lot more room for diplomacy to get her back. 

Let's say worse come to the worst, if I have to say goodbye to my mother in exchange for wiping out a global terrorist organization from the map, I would not be particularly happy by it, but I would totally understand why it happened, if it happened. These are the consequences of living near terrorists. It comes as a package and is totally to be expected. This is the price you pay for living in an uncivilized world, through no fault of your own. If I was born in Palestine, then I would not be mature enough to realize all this. But I am not. 

Also, you have to make a decision eventually.  End the cycle of terrorism before they kidnap and torture even more women and children. And establish an international body to ensure the rights and sovereignty of Palestine citizens. The ideal case is that all three terrorist groups get wiped off the map. I trust Israel to make it happen. 

Quote

I don't think Hamas would have any problem giving back the hostages in exchange for a ceasefire. So the hostages are not a driving factor in this war. The Israeli leaderships shows that their concern for the hostages is at best a second priority.

So, if Israel did not attack, they wouldn't even have any leverage to get the hostages back?

Are you saying that bombing till now was justified if getting back the hostages was indeed the first priority. 

[lina]

Horrific... Remember when we were debating few months ago about who bombed the first hospital? Now NONE are left. 

 

 

And here Netanyahu willing to continue the war into 2025....! 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-says-war-against-hamas-set-to-continue-into-2025-tv-report/  

Edited January 18 by lina

[Bobby_2021]

2 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

@Bobby_2021 Israeli s army is way bigger and better equipped. Also superior technology. So of course it can be done. What is the problem here?

Do you know the efforts US put into studying Bin Laden's residence before they went ahead with the special operations. You cannot launch the special forces on a whim.

When you are in enemy territory, the enemy is the superior one purely by looking at the numbers. Your superiority does not count to anything. Home advantage is the true superiority. Special forces works only when the enemy is isolated, relatively unarmed with little security. None of which resembles Hamas.

All these people suggesting special forces operation like the one US used to take out Bin Laden wants to feel like they are contributing to a solution here. It is not the solution. You will get smoked by a decently armed Palestine civilian, if not Hamas militants.   

11 minutes ago, Raze said:

Bombing isn’t working either then, just after Israel claimed it finished in the north Hamas launched tons of rockets from it.

So, what you want to happen. They should have done nothing at all and watch it all unfolding Infront of their eyes. How do you plan to get the hostages back? Or should you let them take hostages routinely and let them parade the women they killed? 

Bombing is letting them know of the consequences they could be facing and that might be their end. War is about to continue into the future. I only hope something comes out of it. Both of them fire rockets at each other routinely. Just that the ones fired by Israel lands often.

[kenway]

24 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

If my mom is living beside terrorists, then it's a matter of time before she gets bombed anyway. It's not like you have a choice. It is something that is bound to happen sooner than later. If she is kidnapped by terrorists, then there is a lot more room for diplomacy to get her back. 

Let's say worse come to the worst, if I have to say goodbye to my mother in exchange for wiping out a global terrorist organization from the map, I would not be particularly happy by it, but I would totally understand why it happened, if it happened. These are the consequences of living near terrorists. It comes as a package and is totally to be expected. This is the price you pay for living in an uncivilized world, through no fault of your own. If I was born in Palestine, then I would not be mature enough to realize all this. But I am not. 

Also, you have to make a decision eventually.  End the cycle of terrorism before they kidnap and torture even more women and children. And establish an international body to ensure the rights and sovereignty of Palestine citizens. The ideal case is that all three terrorist groups get wiped off the map. I trust Israel to make it happen.

 

With all due respect, this is just paragraph after paragraph of nonsense.

[Nivsch]

23 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Do you know the efforts US put into studying Bin Laden's residence before they went ahead with the special operations. You cannot launch the special forces on a whim.

When you are in enemy territory, the enemy is the superior one purely by looking at the numbers. Your superiority does not count to anything. Home advantage is the true superiority. Special forces works only when the enemy is isolated, relatively unarmed with little security. None of which resembles Hamas.

+1 🧡

For everybody who is saying Israel can just get in without a very broad scale air phase first.

Edited January 18 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

13 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

They should have done nothing at all and watch it all unfolding Infront of their eyes. How do you plan to get the hostages back? Or should you let them take hostages routinely and let them parade the women they killed? 

Bombing is letting them know of the consequences they could be facing and that might be their end. War is about to continue into the future. I only hope something comes out of it. Both of them fire rockets at each other routinely. Just that the ones fired by Israel lands often.

+1 🧡

[Bobby_2021]

11 minutes ago, kenway said:

 

With all due respect, this is just paragraph after paragraph of nonsense.

You have been asking many questions and when I answer it, you don't like it. Reality is dirty. There is no fine solution here. 

And there should be more than two sides to this war. 

And I am not saying your position is flawed here so something. You are totally valid in protesting for the lives of civilians. I am just focusing on the larger issue at play here which does not contradict your position. The larger issue is terrorism spreading worldwide resulting in even more human costs in the long run.

---

The Houthi problem today will not have happened if Biden did not revoke his involvement from Yemen back in 2021 and he took them out the list of global terrorists' group, just so that he can have the opposite position as Trump.  But they ignored it even at the Request of Saudi and real Yemense govt and not they are choking the global maritime supply. 

You cannot postpone war. You can only end it quickly.

Edited January 18 by Bobby_2021

[Nivsch]

21 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The Palestinians are so underdeveloped they shoot themselves in the foot a bunch.

I though about it today, and I think there is a problem in the assumption that just because the palestinians are stage red and therefore allegedly more "stupid" (or something similar) they are not responsible for what is happening. 

Because development is anyway always a relative notion and Israel is also underdeveloped relative to a tier 2 society for example, and we can continue this forever.

I am talking about my thinking and not trying to say I am more or less right, but what I think is that even a stage red person still has its infinite brain resources and intelligence to promote its goals. His body for example is still magically incomprehensibly intelligent. So too his brain and mind in the same way.

What I am trying to say is that the thought that hamas are just stupid suicial organization is far from the truth. They just aren't developed morally and in their consciousness to themselves and others essense and value, but with their ability to manipulate their way to survive they can still be genius. And they are in a sense. 

Look how clever their deffense mechanism is in the way thay act physically and getting mixed with civilians and, also (many will argue but) in how they make the crowd opinion be twisted against their enemy. I am not saying Israel doesn't have part in this, but the distance between the accustions against Israel and reality is enormous to my opinion.

If we extrapulate this out to the whole conflict, then we cannot any more see the palestinians as just "reactants" to Israel policies, but an active participant in this tango has equal reaponsibility to initiate trust building actions by itself too and not just to cry about things the other side is doing. 

By the way, they cry, or complain (if to be fair and use a neutral word) equaly and even harder just after revolutionary agreements, what proves that the core of the problem is an inner problem with their mind that try always to preserve his bad homeostasis state (for example the 2nd Intifada after the large series of agreements in the 90's).

Every one has equal responsibility to challenge himself and get himself out of an unfunctional disordered situation, be it an inner within him or an outer disorder. Because the truth is, no one can help the palestinians out their disfunctional thinking patterns but themselves.

And for the protocol, yes, the Jews, like every other group, have their own weaknesses too, but they are found in another areas.

Edited January 19 by Nivsch

[kenway]

4 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

You have been asking many questions

 

I have asked you one question.

 

12 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

You have been asking many questions and when I answer it, you don't like it. Reality is dirty. There is no fine solution here. 

And there should be more than two sides to this war. 

And I am not saying your position is flawed here so something. You are totally valid in protesting for the lives of civilians. I am just focusing on the larger issue at play here which does not contradict your position. The larger issue is terrorism spreading worldwide resulting in even more human costs in the long run.

---

The Houthi problem today will not have happened if Biden did not revoke his involvement from Yemen back in 2021 and he took them out the list of global terrorists' group, just so that he can have the opposite position as Trump.  But they ignored it even at the Request of Saudi and real Yemense govt and not they are choking the global maritime supply. 

You cannot postpone war. You can only end it quickly.

 

It's not that I don't like it, it's just that you're coming at the problem from a position of simplicity and subjectivity, which has the net result of garbled nonsense that doesn't really have any authority or connection to the actualities of the situation, let alone the broader Middle East.

For example, how are you even defining the word "terrorist" or "terrorism"? When you say:-

 

"If my mom is living beside terrorists, then it's a matter of time before she gets bombed anyway."

 

You surely have to recognise how ridiculous that sounds. What is your definition of terrorism?

Have you considered or factored in that many people in the world regard Israel as the terrorists?

Are you even aware that Israel was founded by terrorism? Militant Zionist terrorist groups such as the Irgun, or the Stern Gang, or even the Haganah, most of which simply became parts of the regular Israeli military post 1948, not least the Mossad?

What are you thoughts, say, on Israel's bombing of the King David Hotel in 1951, that killed close to 100 people and was achieved while Israeli terrorists were deliberately pretending to be Palestinian Arabs?

What are your thoughts on (for example) Israel fighter jets routinely breaking the sound barrier over Gaza City, way before Hamas even came to power, thus generating sonic booms over Palestinian residents at 3 in the morning, literally terrifying them, night after night?

Can you perhaps start to understand that your relationship with the word "terrorist" might be a little simplistic?

And I haven't got past your first sentence yet.

What is your position on Sabra and Shatila, or Beirut 1982, or 2006? Or Cast Lead? How in your opinion might these events have modulated the Palestinian position on how they regard Israelis?

What are your opinions on the morality of the Nakba? Or maybe even the Intifada? What is your position on ethnostates in general? Do you support them? If so why?

So... it's not really that I don't like what you say, it's more a case that you have a very simplistic and subjective comprehension on the facts, the ignorance of which is literally one of the reasons why this current genocide is taking place right now.

Because if you actually knew, then you would be standing very much against it.

 

[kenway]

 

[Raze]

2 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

 

So, what you want to happen. They should have done nothing at all and watch it all unfolding Infront of their eyes. How do you plan to get the hostages back? Or should you let them take hostages routinely and let them parade the women they killed? 

Bombing is letting them know of the consequences they could be facing and that might be their end. War is about to continue into the future. I only hope something comes out of it. Both of them fire rockets at each other routinely. Just that the ones fired by Israel lands often.

1. They should have treated the Palestinians fairly in the first place so this never happened.

2. Hamas offered almost right away to return all the hostages in exchange for Israel returning all their “prisoners” (most of whom are held without charges and they have admitted is for political capital, so essentially hostages).

3. Bombing and attacking has resulted if the deaths of many hostages, if they wanted to prioritize hostage safety bombing is absolutely not the answer, they chose revenge.

4. If bombing is so effective, why did oct 7 happen when Israel had already killed tens of thousands during regular bombing raids for decades? Why is it going to suddenly work now?

5. you’re watching what comes from it, this war is the result of prior bombings, the next will be the result of this one. This isn’t new or different, the only change is the IDF lost way more soldiers and Gaza lost way more civilians.

 

[Yimpa]

On 1/17/2024 at 3:47 PM, Leo Gura said:

A good leader does what is right even if the whole world is agianst him.

A bad leader does what is wrong and everyone agrees with him.

[zazen]

12 hours ago, lina said:

Horrific... Remember when we were debating few months ago about who bombed the first hospital? Now NONE are left. 

 

 

And here Netanyahu willing to continue the war into 2025....! 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-says-war-against-hamas-set-to-continue-into-2025-tv-report/  

 

And Galit had said at ICJ that Hospitals aren’t targeted. The same day all Universities have also been destroyed.

IDF had been using it as a military base for a month, and destroyed it by laying over 300 mines - obviously no Hamas presence there or they wouldn’t have been able to use it for a month or lay mines. 
 

If the reason isn’t obviously to destroy Palestinian history or make Gaza uninhabitable then I look forward to the creative reasons.

[jaylimix]

On 1/17/2024 at 7:36 PM, lina said:

@Nivsch you guys (anyone still supporting whatever that's going on) are up for a rude awakening, whether you realize it now or in 50 years, but Israel's image and reputation has been broken for years to come and no amount of justification will fix that.

But don't forget that there are many people on the other side that are now rallying behind Israel because of how the world responded after Oct 7.

- Denial of atrocities

- Silence on sexual crimes

- Laughed about atrocities

- Flip evil around and projected the evils of Hamas onto Israel

- Media blackout on Muslim countries to side with the Palestinians

- Want the destruction of a secular democracy and chose instead the survival of an Islamic terrorist state. Think the PLO is any better than Hamas? Think again. Heard of Pay-to-Slay? https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/article-768735

- Made Israelis and Jews felt demonized and all alone, angry and sad. https://x.com/mewapawa/status/1748254131247284437?s=20

[jaylimix]

On 1/18/2024 at 5:11 PM, zazen said:

This you?

You’ve made good points before but how can people take you seriously when you’ve said you don’t care about dead Palestinian children?

This forum has a thread enthusiastically trying to understand the Nazi mind and an ultra-Zionist on it lol. Trippy.

Yes that posts about shooting at watermelons is me, big fucking deal, it's aim to antagonize the people with watermelons on their X name.

Those on the side of Palestine also don't care about the dead Israeli children, difference is I am honest, they are not.

But you can read between the lines during their video interviews, online words, and know that to be true.

[jaylimix]

23 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

@Leo Gura Dont bother with these pro Israelis, they are totally brainwashed.

It is sad that followers of your work can justify devilry of this scale.

LMAO rewatch Leo's video on Radical Open-mindedness.

23 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

It just shows that if they justify these barbarisms even though Israelis have barely suffered under Palestine, imagine the hatred Palestinians must have towards Israelis where they been through 1000x worse for decades.

View this list https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/comprehensive-listing-of-terrorism-victims-in-israel

[jaylimix]

14 hours ago, lina said:

Horrific... Remember when we were debating few months ago about who bombed the first hospital? Now NONE are left. 

So you just take his word for it? I'll quote from this https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/01/1145632

Quote:

Only around 16 out of 36 hospitals in Gaza are “minimally or partially functioning” after more than three months of conflict.

End quote.

Your welcome, I spent time finding an unbias and recent source for you.

[jaylimix]

13 hours ago, kenway said:

You are right, I don't understand the woman above.

And I still keep thinking it is all of your fault.

Sorry to bring out a previous posts but here it is again.

Life before fucking around :" No complains, happy, life's good "

After fucking around :" Act like this woman above and below "

But you know what, Plestia actually lives in Gaza, in a warzone, and she is calm;

whereas the nutty on the quoted Twitter post lives in America, FOH, and listen to her accent, it's pure American.

Edited January 19 by jaylimix