Posted January 18 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: Are Israeli kids not indoctrinated into killing? To kill civilians?? Never heard of that, and I have never educated to do such of thing. Sound crazy to me. Our teachers talked with us about Israel establishment, Israel wars, the peace agreement we made and the hope there will be peace with syria and we will can even go to Damascus I remeber this well I was in 6th grade. I dont know what you saw in the interivews of the far right wing people who are 1% to 5% at most. Edited January 18 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Nivsch said: To kill civilians?? But then how do you explain so many civilians killed by the IDF? All just accidents? How convenient. Edited January 18 by Leo Gura You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 1 hour ago, Leo Gura said: What lead to Oct 7th was the decades-long Israeli policy of settlement and indefinite stalling of any kind of long-term peace deal that recognizes the rights and soveriegnty of Palestinians. The current government hasn’t been particularly interested in peace. But also, a two state solution was offered in 2000 and rejected by the Palestinians with no counteroffer and Israel got the second intifada instead. Then they withdraw from Gaza in 2005 and get nothing but rockets from an Islamist group. Of course that’s gonna shift Israel to the right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 (edited) The Palestinians are so underdeveloped they shoot themselves in the foot a bunch. Certainly the fault is not all Israel's. This whole thing works exactly like a toxic abusive marriage. Edited January 18 by Leo Gura You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 (edited) 3 hours ago, Leo Gura said: But then how do you explain so many civilians killed by the IDF? All just accidents? How convenient. 1. 10,000s terror targets to attack. 2. hamas number one survival strategy to use, disguise and assimilate among civilians. 3. hamas interest to always maximize civilians casualties to make Israel stop because they know this is our weakness. 4. ~40% of those 24,000 are hamas combatants. 5. PTSD condition from oct 7th + 30 years accumulated frustration from terror attacks and how the virus twists the accusation on Israel when the world believe him more every time, made Israel to maybe behave somehow in a looser way this time, but the attacks were still, I think, on terror targets anyway. 100% of them? Well I hope but I can't know. But even if I just think on this in a dry logical way there are so many terror targets, then why to attack something else. The weapon is still limited. Edited January 18 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 50 minutes ago, Nivsch said: The fact that Israel built a 1 Billion dollar smart fence out of the fantasy the thecnology will prevent wars. They also ignored countless warnings for the attack. 51 minutes ago, Nivsch said: Israel let Thousands of Gazans to work in its areas for years out of the hope it will make them moderate. And also put an embargo on Gaza, denied them an airport etc. 51 minutes ago, Nivsch said: Israel did more than 10 careful operations with good surgicality lead to anything but worsen the situation in the long term. How come your glorious PM secretly supported and funded Hamas? You keep ignoring this but it is very important point. Hamas suited Israeli government agenda, so how exactly do you justify this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 53 minutes ago, Nivsch said: Israelis soldiers are many of them boys in theirs 18-22 years that are also humen being with broad heart and worried mothers and familiy that are putting their lives in a serious risk in one of the most dangerous areas in the world. Thousands of them are doing that right now for more than 3 months straight. Because someone signing up to fight for an army and killing people is not the same as a 5 year old being blown up in house sleeping at night. There is a big moral difference between soldiers and civilians. Also big moral difference between kids and adults. Kids are like half dying here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 (edited) Israeli media are reporting some (very conveniently timed) rocket launches seemingly come from the Egyptian Sinai towards Eilat. This also follows on from previous minor skirmishes between the IDF and the Egyptian military. If Netanyahu is seriously intending to take control of the Egypt / Gaza border (as declared), what effect might this have on Israeli-Egyptian relations? To me, this seems like a prelude to the deliberate establishment of an international humanitarian enclave in the Sinai desert. Edited January 18 by kenway Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 (edited) Edited January 18 by kenway Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 1 hour ago, Joel3102 said: The current government hasn’t been particularly interested in peace. But also, a two state solution was offered in 2000 and rejected by the Palestinians with no counteroffer and Israel got the second intifada instead. Then they withdraw from Gaza in 2005 and get nothing but rockets from an Islamist group. Of course that’s gonna shift Israel to the right. +1 💛 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 (edited) 4 hours ago, Leo Gura said: What lead to Oct 7th was the decades-long Israeli policy of settlement and indefinite stalling of any kind of long-term peace deal that recognizes the rights and soveriegnty of Palestinians. But by that logic, what lead to the second Intifada with suicide bombings twice a week in the early 2000's was Oslo agreement (1993), Oslo 2nd agreement (1995), Hebron agreement (1997), Y agreement (1998), Camp David negotiation (2000)... 4 hours ago, Leo Gura said: And if my "used" you mean some Hamas guy slept in one apartment in a high-rise of 500 units, so what? That doesn't justify destroying the building. By using I mean it was pre-trapped (before the war) and the logic behind that is that in the same way hamas has invested every second since 2005 to build a 400 km length tunnels city, it also has invested in trapping entire neighborhoods all across the Gaza strip way before the war started. 4 hours ago, Leo Gura said: Of course now they booby-trap houses in the middle of a warzone. So what? It's urban warfare. What I think is that just like the undergroung tunnels-city, also this was already made before the war. 4 hours ago, Leo Gura said: Are Israeli villages sterile? If one radical Zionist settler lives in a kibbutz, does that mean we can bomb the whole kibbutz now? There are many radical far-right Zionists sprinkled amidst the otherwise sensible Israeli population. Does that mean we can bomb high-rises in Tel Aviv? I agree with you in this logic but the question is, if this is really the case in Gaza because according to the ever arming-race of hamas the situation there is, I think, very different. 4 hours ago, Leo Gura said: I don't think Hamas would have any problem giving back the hostages in exchange for a ceasefire Why do you think that? Edited January 18 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Nivsch said: Why do you think that? Thinking Israel is currently fighting primarily to free the hostages is as delusional as thinking Russia is invading Ukraine to denazify it. I do not think you need a lot of intelligence to see that their current government is a bunch of right wing racist neo nazi fanatics that want to cleanse Gaza and annex it. That is their goal at the moment. If it was about hostages they could easily do a permanent truce with Hamas and get them back. Not only they are not doing it, but they keep bombing Gaza, endangering the hostages lives and even shooting at naked civilians wearing white flags which results in accidental hostage killings. Edited January 18 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 8 minutes ago, Karmadhi said: I do not think you need a lot of intelligence to see that their current government is a bunch of right wing racist neo nazi fanatics that want to cleanse Gaza and annex it. That is their goal at the moment. Absolutely correct. But the weird thing is, that a lot of the brainwashed Zionists (even in this thread) are actually decent, compassionate and intelligent people. I don't exclude @Nivsch from that portrayal, who is clearly intelligent and with good heart. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 On 15/01/2024 at 7:40 PM, Nivsch said: By the way @Nivsch I forgot to thank you for posting these videos. I watched them all and enjoyed them. I appreciate that you're trying to demonstrate a dimension to Israel that might not be apparent in this thread, and I empathise that it must be frustrating. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 (edited) 26 minutes ago, kenway said: But the weird thing is, that a lot of the brainwashed Zionists (even in this thread) are actually decent, compassionate and intelligent people. I don't exclude @Nivsch from that portrayal, who is clearly intelligent and with good heart That is the issue with propaganda and biases. It makes normally decent people to rationalize in their minds atrocities. Russians do the same with Ukranian suffering. However, the current Israeli high level politicians, especially some of the right wing ones like Ben Gavir and the PM himself, are not good people, they are bad people in my opinion and need to go down. Edited January 18 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 10 minutes ago, Karmadhi said: However, the current Israeli high level politicians, especially some of the right wing ones like Ben Gavir and the PM himself, are not good people, they are bad people in my opinion and need to go down. Oh I definitely agree with you there. That's a whole different level. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 (edited) 19 minutes ago, kenway said: Oh I definitely agree with you there. That's a whole different level. A war crime trial similar to the Nurenberg Trials would be the best thing I think. It would show that Israel can be held accountable for its crimes, it would clean the politican landscape, giving road to perhaps more liberal politicans. It would also appease the hatred and rage that most of the world has towards Israel at the moment. From what I saw these people are bad for Israeli too, so I doubt the country will suffer if they are sent to jail. I see it as an absolute win. Edited January 18 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Karmadhi said: A war crime trial similar to the Nurenberg Trials would be the best thing I think. It would show that Israel can be held accountable for its crimes, it would clean the politican landscape, giving road to perhaps more liberal politicans. It would also appease the hatred and rage that most of the world has towards Israel at the moment. From what I saw these people are bad for Israeli too, so I doubt the country will suffer if they are sent to jail. I see it as an absolute win. “The Hague Invasion Act is a United States federal law described as "a bill to protect United States military personnel and other elected and appointed officials of the United States government against criminal prosecution by an international criminal court to which the United States is not party. The Act gives the president power to use "all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any U.S. or allied personnel being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court" Unfortunately, this is the “rule based order” that the global south are current opposing and building parallel systems to if not upheld in principle. If we read that act and then the definition of terrorism: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims - makes one step back and see the world in a different way. Edited January 18 by zazen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 21 hours ago, Leo Gura said: If someone murdered a child on the street and fled the police by running and hiding into a 20 floor high-rise building where your mother happened to live, would you be cool if we dropped a 2000lb bomb on that building, leveling it to the ground? This example shows the insane bias of the Israeli position. You would never accept such a situation. This is the topic of Double Standards that I have an excellent video on. Study it closely and apply to your political positions. If you dare. In that case you would do a special operation to take out the terrorist. But a special forces operation will not work when there are thousands of well-trained terrorists with weapons who has held your mom hostage and use children as shields. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 18 (edited) Quote In that case you would do a special operation to take out the terrorist. But a special forces operation will not work when there are thousands of well-trained terrorists with weapons who has held your mom hostage and use children as shields. @Bobby_2021 lol so basically what you're saying is that it would be fine to bomb your mom then? Edited January 18 by kenway Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
