New War In Israel / Gaza

[Nivsch]

@kenway You are inventing now a narrative based on fragments of cases in the periphery that do not have any connection to your story you are forcefully trying to compose.

I won't co-operate with this and I can't compete with imaginary ideas.

You are free to think whatever you want anyway.

Edited January 17 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

15 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

It's not just 130 hostages. The existence of hamas implies there would be thousands more hostages, rapes and kidnappings as much as Israel is willing to tolerate long into the future. At one point, they decide enough is enough.

Also those children are the reason hamas even exist. They need to operate in children's hospital so that they wouldn't be taken out. None of this would have happened it they came to fight upfront without being such cowards using children as human shields. 

Does that justify killing thousands of children? No. But there would be killings anyway. This would put an end to all this. There is no peaceful ending.

The tunnel networks should be destroyed and the city infrastructure rebuilt well once again for civilians and some international body setup to protect the rights of Palestinians. 

👍👍👍🔥

Edited January 17 by Nivsch

[kenway]

4 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

I won't co-operate with this.

 

Fine, let's play a game instead.

Pretend that a well organised group of terrorists have kidnapped 130 civilians and are keeping them hostage somewhere in Tel Aviv.

Your job is to save the hostages.

Do you:-

A) Bomb the place to fuck, destroying 85% of Tel Aviv homes, killing over 25,000 Tel Aviv citizens, killing over 12,000 Tel Aviv children, and allowing the remainder of the Tel Aviv population to starve to death, meanwhile securing the release of zero hostages. 

or

B) Something else.

 

Take as much time as you need.

[Nivsch]

@kenway Since Tel Aviv, contrary to Gaza, is not a well-fortified terror base been well prepared with many traps in every single neighborhood for 18 years to the day my soldiers will invade to there, so there is no point in bombing it first, and a ground invasion will be enough in Tel Aviv.

Edited January 17 by Nivsch

[kenway]

[kenway]

 

Another good one from Owen Jones. 

Dismantling the propaganda of "human shields".

[Bobby_2021]

2 hours ago, kenway said:

Fine, let's play a game instead.

Pretend that a well organised group of terrorists have kidnapped 130 civilians and are keeping them hostage somewhere in Tel Aviv.

Your job is to save the hostages.

Do you:-

A) Bomb the place to fuck, destroying 85% of Tel Aviv homes, killing over 25,000 Tel Aviv citizens, killing over 12,000 Tel Aviv children, and allowing the remainder of the Tel Aviv population to starve to death, meanwhile securing the release of zero hostages. 

Tel Aviv would have the military and take responsibility to take out the terrorists themselves without any outside intervention.

Israel army could not operate like that in Gaza. The local population will not cooperate. 

[kenway]

Yeah I made the mistake in forgetting that there's an answer for everything when it comes to Israeli-apologism.

It's a kind of convenient myopia that refuses to face the subtle moral nuance of the exercise - namely the racist and quasi-devilish disregard for a Palestinian life, compared to an Israeli life.

[zazen]

4 hours ago, lina said:

@Nivsch you guys (anyone still supporting whatever that's going on) are up for a rude awakening, whether you realize it now or in 50 years, but Israel's image and reputation has been broken for years to come and no amount of justification will fix that.

Hopefully we're not here in 10 years discussing another uprising and ethnic cleansing 'self defense' campaign.

3 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

The existence of hamas implies there would be thousands more hostages, rapes and kidnappings as much as Israel is willing to tolerate long into the future. At one point, they decide enough is enough.

The existence of Israel (as it currently is) implies there would be thousands more incidents of discrimination, oppression, detained and uncharged minors and settler expansion. At one point, they decide enough is enough.

5 hours ago, kenway said:

A normal country doesn't rescue 130 hostages by invoking Hiroshima on to a population of 2.1 million, half of whom are children.

If you don't understand that, then I don't know what to tell you.

Nice shares as usual. It's odd that to care about the safety of your hostages you decide to anger the ones holding them even more and in fact put them in harms way by your 'methods of rescue' ie unleash bombzilla on the small piece of land they're contained within. Usually hostage situations involve special ops or negotiations, not all out assault.

4 minutes ago, kenway said:

Yeah I made the mistake in forgetting that there's an answer for everything when it comes to Israeli-apologism.

It's a kind of convenient myopia that refuses to face the subtle moral nuance of the exercise - namely the racist and quasi-devilish disregard for a Palestinian life, compared to an Israeli life.

Distortion, denial and deflection. Metaphorically its like a man (Israel) slapping another man (Gaza) then saying he did't slap him but his hand did - and then he starts to complain and play victim for his hand hurting.

[zazen]

6 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Obviously when there are 130 hostages there the speed of the war will be maximized.

This is just one of the reasons apart from a few others why this conflict has so many people involved in it - because its not only the scale of destruction but the time scale its done within and the calculations going on in peoples minds that at this rate if it continues how many more deaths will there be.  

The reason for the speed of operations is also because Israels army is made up of civilian-reservists who are usually in the economy working and providing much needed money required for extended wars and operations. On top of that, you have 10's of thousands of locals from north and south who aren't living by the border anymore and are being housed at the states / tax payers expense - this is unsustainable economically.

8 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Hundreds of thousands been killed in Yemen but nobody cares not in the western world nor here.

 

8 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Bashar Al Assad killed more muslims then the sum of the people been killed in all of the conflicts between Israel and Muslims since 1947 but not the world nor here there is a caring

People did care, they protested a lot in London. It’s just not to this scale for multiple reasons. First, the Palestine issue has been ongoing for a long time which builds up momentum for the cause - it remains in peoples consciousness especially when every few years theirs operations and civilians dying. It’s a holy land sacred to a lot of people in the world. The people there are captive and don't have any safe place to flee to or seek refuge unlike other wars. Also, the implications of this conflict and how it can easily develop into a regional war which has global impact due to its geostrategic location (near a lot of the worlds most important resources and transport lanes) + the players involved (Israel - a US ally, and proxy Iran groups) which can spiral also into world war 3.

This thread is about Israel / Gaza so people will clearly discuss about that here. If a country is causing destruction and humanitarian crises to another people it's not a good look for that country to use deflection and play whataboutism. If a robber robs someone and a bystander starts lecturing the robber on the injustice of his act and that he should stop, then robber says 'oh but the high tax rate robs people of their hard earned money anyway so what?' people would laugh.

Edited January 17 by zazen

[Raze]

 

[Nivsch]

[kenway]

1 hour ago, zazen said:

If a robber robs someone and a bystander starts lecturing the robber on the injustice of his act and that he should stop, then robber says 'oh but the high tax rate robs people of their hard earned money anyway so what?' people would laugh.

Great analogy.

[kenway]

@Nivsch

And how many countries would support SA's claim if journalists were actually allowed to report on what was going on in Gaza and the media (particularly the Western media) were actually doing their jobs in providing their citizens a truthful synopsis of the facts?

Edward Snowden used the correct term - appalling - in describing the cowardly trick of such media to not broadcast to their citizens the 3-hour SA application, but instead only choosing to live-stream Israel's convoluted defense.

[kenway]

 

.... and on that subject.... Gideon Levy speaking on Democracy Now about the nature of Israeli media.

This is what people mean when they use the term "brainwashed" when talking about ordinary Israelis.

 

Courtesy to @Raze for the link.

Edited January 17 by kenway

[Nivsch]

2 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Tel Aviv would have the military and take responsibility to take out the terrorists themselves without any outside intervention.

Israel army could not operate like that in Gaza. The local population will not cooperate. 

👍 Another good interesting point I didn't think about.

[Raze]

46 minutes ago, Nabd said:

This is the best explanation I've seen of how Hamas is an essential part of Israeli right wing.

This is what I am always trying to tell people. This guy does a fantastic job with visuals and presentation backed by documents which makes denying this extremely hard.

I encourage all Israelis and Hamas sympathizers to watch this. 

I myself brought this up but I think people are misunderstanding it. I wouldn’t say Netanyahu wanted his to happen or views Hamas as an asset. Just that the government in Israel is doing everything it can to hurt advocacy for a state even if it means putting Jews at risk. The blockade and violence directed at Palestinians has resulted in many attacks but they were usually small casualty wise for Israel, they just slipped up on October 7th. The plan seemed to be to slowly choke the Palestinians and pummel them when they lashed out with the idea they could never do much damage, and then use what damage they do cause to further justify restricting them. 

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, Nivsch said:

@lina If a baby from your village was burned alive and some of your friends or family would taken hostages with a gun to their head every day for 100 days you would do exactly the same as Israel and chasing those murderers with the maximum pressure possible until you bring them back.

If someone murdered a child on the street and fled the police by running and hiding into a 20 floor high-rise building where your mother happened to live, would you be cool if we dropped a 2000lb bomb on that building, leveling it to the ground?

This example shows the insane bias of the Israeli position. You would never accept such a situation.

This is the topic of Double Standards that I have an excellent video on. Study it closely and apply to your political positions. If you dare.

Edited January 17 by Leo Gura

[Yimpa]

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This is the topic of Double Standards that I have an excellent video on. Study it closely and apply to your political positions. If you dare.

Was just listening to this episode in the car two nights ago. The insight that struck me was: “Wait, isn’t this a triple standard? Leo is criticizing all these people and groups for not meeting his standards. Oh shit, now it’s a quad standard now that I’m criticizing Leo’s criticism of double standards.” 

[Nivsch]

@Leo Gura I have listened to this video.

You are also right this is indeed a counter story to the one I wrote and I think both of them are right.

Then what do you suggest IDF to do?

IDF can go with this and decide it won't bomb anything, but then the soldiers will be killed like sitting ducks or domino cubes in many hundreds every month.

I have also a question. If that mother would asked to leave the building 3 days before it was bombed it was ok? Because honestly this is what happened all the time during this war.

And another question why the Israeli side is "insanly biased" but the side who critisize her so harshly is not? I bet every western society would react just the same because it really seems to me inevitable in such a trappy situation.

Edited January 17 by Nivsch