Posted January 15 @Nivsch I wish that was enough to stop them. Apparently, nothing is going to stop Israel. "The wise seek wisdom, a fool has found it." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/10/right-now-it-is-one-day-at-a-time-life-on-israels-frontline-with-gaza Guardian Oct 10th - 2023 When talking about the maximisation of damage, let's try to keep things factual. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 Damage = material damage. 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 (edited) The more I think about this, the more I believe that it is not realistic for Israel to be super clean and respectful towards civilians when they were attacked by Hamas. The only solution to me, is for other powerful countries, including USA, Russia etc to basically force Israel into obeying international law. If someone murdered my friend, I would rush towards to kill them, it is not realistic for others to tell me, "get over it bro". But it is very realistic for others to stop me and hold me from doing so when I rush to kill him for murdering my friend. The same logic applies for Hamas ofc. Therefore, forcing Israel into obedience is the most realistic solution. The hurt person will not object to restraint, it is not realistic. However, I still think Israel has gone too far at this point. Killing 20x is overkill, but being totally clean is a bit not realistic. @Nivsch Edited January 15 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 Having a break from this thread. Peace. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 (edited) 1 hour ago, Nivsch said: Damage = material damage. Hagari's statement clearly said whilst accuracy is considered the focus is more on the damage part of the operation. Naturally a lot of civilian death comes with damage and unnecessarily destroying buildings that aren't used by Hamas ie levelling the place to make it uninhabitable. This intention and goal seems to be clearer by the destruction of crops where food is grown. ''High resolution satellite imagery shows bulldozers were used to destroy fields and orchards. Tracks are visible, as well as mounds of earth on the edges of the former plots.” - https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/12/18/israel-starvation-used-weapon-war-gaza#:~:text=The Israeli government is using,in Israeli forces' military operations. 1 hour ago, kenway said: Having a break from this thread. Peace. Above is why I took some time off. Saw the youtube video you shared earlier - didn't see anything propogandic about two guys walking around a neighbourhood even it was amongst a certain sect, neither was the way you shared it bad faith lol. The topic is a hypersensitive one to the ideological. Look forward to reading your insightful posts here again at some point. Edited January 15 by zazen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 (edited) @zazen Again I agree on problems and can discuss on them with an open mind. But In the big picture there is here an overreaction of the immune system in its fight against the highly sophisticated hamas virus. Nothing will change that. Let it sink a little bit. Agree or not, everything is OK you have the right to hold your opinion. My opinion won't change, not about the big picture. Edited January 16 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 (edited) 6 hours ago, Karmadhi said: Israelis use the "Why dont Arabs take them, if they do not take them, it means they do not want them so they are bad" type of argument. I don't think anyone used the term "bad" for describing Palestinians. Egypt had a moral responsibility and even incentivised by the west to give up the blockade. They didn't because they don't care about the lives of Palestinians. Period. If Egypt can't accept them, Israel shouldn't have any moral responsibility to accept them into their land either. I am just saying Egypt needs same or even more criticism than Israel for holding the blockade. Egypt is in a shit ton of debt and might even collapse due to their poorly planned capital building. And Just because Nazi's use some argument doens't mean anything. Hitler was a vegetarian too. So when you see someone advocating for vegetarian diet would you say "Oh look you are using the same argument as Hitler" What does that mean? It means nothing. Not good not bad. Analyse the situation at hand. There was a serious case for Egypt to do all the things that you were criticising Israel for. Egypt had all the power and even monetary incentive to end this misery. Heck even the shipping via the suez canal has significantly decreased due to bombings in the red sea by houthis. So this lack of marine traffic had plummeted their revenue significantly. So it's fair to say they had a shit load of incentives to cease the blockade. And international aid would have swept in via Egypt to help those starving Palestinians, on top of forgiving all their debt they took up to build their new capital. That's a legit argument that should be addressed directly without drawing parallels to freking Hitler. You are not really making any case but poor attempts to make Israel look like Hitler. --- With that said, I do get why Egypt is holding up the blockade. One is that they have serious pressure from other arab countries to hold up the blockade. The other is that terrorists can destabilize their government making it hard to control them. Edited January 15 by Bobby_2021 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 3 hours ago, Karmadhi said: The more I think about this, the more I believe that it is not realistic for Israel to be super clean and respectful towards civilians when they were attacked by Hamas. The only solution to me, is for other powerful countries, including USA, Russia etc to basically force Israel into obeying international law. If someone murdered my friend, I would rush towards to kill them, it is not realistic for others to tell me, "get over it bro". But it is very realistic for others to stop me and hold me from doing so when I rush to kill him for murdering my friend. The same logic applies for Hamas ofc. Therefore, forcing Israel into obedience is the most realistic solution. The hurt person will not object to restraint, it is not realistic. However, I still think Israel has gone too far at this point. Killing 20x is overkill, but being totally clean is a bit not realistic. @Nivsch This is good take. The solution must come from a powerful country from the outside. US could only get Israel to obey the international law. But the problem is these attacks would continue to happen indefinitely towards the future that one point, you snap and go for the kill. That's where Israel is at right now. Also note that international law or any law or morality for that matter doesn't apply to the other side. They cheer when they fire rockets to Israel and cry when one comes their way. Instead of not firing anything in the first place. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 7 hours ago, HMD said: Bernie Sanders urges Biden to revoke unconstrained financial support for Israel: 'Killing children is not the solution' Sen. Bernie Sanders says President Joe Biden needs to be tougher on Israel amid the war in Gaza. Sanders admonished Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu, who recently promised "nobody will stop us." 100 days into war, Israel's retaliation has killed nearly 24,000 Palestinians, 10,000 of them kids. If it was any other country the USA would be going to war with them or at the very least, heavy sanctions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 (edited) Edited January 15 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 8 minutes ago, Merkabah Star said: If it was any other country the USA would be going to war with them or at the very least, heavy sanctions. Hit the nail in the coffin there. I AM Lovin' It Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Nivsch said: Being woke vegans who are lgbtqi friendly and so accepting of all, still doesn’t condone murdering thousands of innocent children with no end in sight. Wake up but keep eating your tofu burger. 🤡 Edited January 15 by Merkabah Star Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 (edited) Red is indeed a genius in using Green's weaknesses against him and by that making him to appear falsely as "red". Quite frustrating. Edited January 15 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 2 minutes ago, Nivsch said: Red is indeed a genius in using Green's weaknesses against him and by that making him to appear falsely as "red". Not easy but we will win this too. Forget about this colour, bullshit game (dream talk), it’s just a distraction, and focus on true existence. It’s hard when your bubble is so big though. Someone needs to pop it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Merkabah Star said: Forget about this colour, bullshit game (dream talk), it’s just a distraction, and focus on true existence. It’s hard when your bubble is so big though. Someone needs to pop it. Tempted to make Star Wars and SpongeBob references, but you get the point. Edited January 15 by Yimpa I AM Lovin' It Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 (edited) When you live in Israel for 36 years you can't be in a "bubble" about it. Sorry to dissapoint but anyone who get over the years its information second hand and by people/channels who are even not Israelis by themselves has far more chances to mistakes and seeing a distorted picture 🙂 Edited January 15 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 @Merkabah Star The lgbtqias2+ blah blah blah colours represents all the spiral dynamics colours 🏳️🌈 thus, nations waving such symbols with pride are inspirations. Source: Trust me bro Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 (edited) 3 minutes ago, zazen said: @Merkabah Star The lgbtqias2+ blah blah blah colours represents all the spiral dynamics colours 🏳️🌈 thus, nations waving such symbols with pride are inspirations. Source: Trust me bro Do not conflate gender theory and spiral dynamics. Red is red. End of story. Edited January 15 by Yimpa I AM Lovin' It Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
