Posted January 15 (edited) 5 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said: Egypt could have chosen not to put up the blockade. They could have taken in their fellow arab civilians seeking asylum from war. Probably Egypt knows something we aren't 🤔 Edited January 15 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 5 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said: Egypt could have chosen not to put up the blockade. They could have taken in their fellow arab civilians seeking asylum from war. US government even agreed to forgive their huge debt they took on to build their new capital. We remember 1948, zionists forcing people to evacuate from their homes, telling them you can get back in a week. Since then, they lived as refugees and were never able to return to their ancestral lands , while jewish people from other western countries were able to go there and have a life there as colons, or as they like to say "Israelis", (while again, Israhell is not a country, not a legit one, except of course for the west and the US as serves their domination over the region.) So lesson learned, leaving the lands means living as a refugee and losing more land to the occupation. In which case, death and hunger is a better option. No one can believe the Israelis, everything they say is lies. They just lie too much to be taken seriously. About the US government, complicit in genocide, enabling the Israeli terrorist "state" or more like "gang", the US government could end it all by stopping the funding of the genocide and stopping sending resources and bombs. Only then can calm get back to the region and hostage negotiations can be initiated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 4 minutes ago, Nivsch said: Only Israel can be accused freely without asking for proofs All these accusation have been documented and provided to the court Sources of every claim can be found in this document that they provided: https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2024/01/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 I saw most of the six hour talks in hugue. Israel's explanations were very grounded to me succeeded easily to hold a stable healthy wide context to its claims. In the other hand the accusation was based on fragments of claims that can indicate problems, but can never compose the puzzle to make their accusation plausible. This is my impression I wrote here yesterday. 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 (edited) 21 hours ago, kenway said: Irrelevant. I asked to provide commentary on the nature of the video, not the sect itself. The sect itself barely featured in the video. I felt it's essential to add. 21 hours ago, kenway said: How is this video biased against the Israeli state? Not a single person in this video advocated against Israel. I apologize, I thought you were in favor of the destruction of Israel and wanted Palestine to be liberated from the river to the sea. So, do you support the Israeli state? 21 hours ago, kenway said: That's fine and I don't deny that Israel is beautiful. Maybe you could post such videos yourself if you can be sure that it's not propaganda? I always share here what I find valuable and represents the reality. 21 hours ago, kenway said: Israel and Hamas are both modern day Nazis. And seeing as you're talking about Nazis by the way:- I used to be a fully paid member of various anti-Nazi organisations for about 5 years. My family fought actual Nazis in World War 2. My great great great great grandmother was Ashkenazi Jewish. The only reason I’m not Jewish today is because my aforementioned grandmother (for reasons unknown) abandoned her new born daughter onto the steps of a Christian church. My attitude to Israel is spawn from that same anti-Nazi spirit that I've always held. Your problem is that you are extraordinarily brainwashed, and there's no obvious way of reversing that. This is not a correct comparison between Hamas and Israel. Hamas is not Israel and Israel is not Hamas, one of them has Nazi ideology while the other not. Just because your great grandmother was an Ashkenazi Jew, holocaust survivor, isn't automatically makes your statements correct. Just because Mate Gabor is an holocaust survivor, doesn't make his analysis of the conflict correct. Both of you are people who never grow up in Israel, never experienced this violence from the other side. There is no one who can understand Israel's enemy better than Israel. You can call me brainwashed, if it sooths your ego and makes it more psychologically easy to keep holding your biased narrative. From my perspective, you are ignorant and luck experience to judge this situation property. The majority of Jewish population, including holocaust survivors (especially them) is pro Israel and have a clear understanding what Nazis really are and who they are, and who are resembling them today, which are radical Islamists more than anything. 21 hours ago, kenway said: It was actually the Zionists that were cooperating with the Nazis. Not only did Nazism legitimise Theodore Herz's 1896 document "The Jewish State' it also served as a sufficiently "scary event" to force the Jews out of Europe down into Palestine where the Zionists wanted and needed them. This is the conspiracy theory that you want to believe in, but has nothing to do with reality. Notice that in your view, all the people you consider "bad" (Zionists) were cooperating with the Nazis while the people you consider to be "good" (non-Zionists) were the victims of Nazis, this is a polished story to fit your narrative. Can you hold in your psyche the reality that the gross majority of Holocaust victims and survivors were Zionists and pro-Israel state? Could you understand why people who experienced hell in Europe would like to have their autonomacy in a form of an Israeli state? Edited January 15 by Lila9 "Never be afraid to sit a while and think.” ― Lorraine Hansberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 22 minutes ago, dudts said: @Bobby_2021 Which is what? Can you share? This is the freedom fighters that you hype. Terrorists are terrorists, not only dangerous to others, but also to their own people. https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/middle-east/palestinian-territories/1702285314-caught-on-camera-hamas-terrorists-steal-humanitarian-aid-beat-civilians https://m.economictimes.com/news/international/world-news/hamas-members-beat-civilians-steal-humanitarian-aid-received-from-intl-organisations-israel-defence-forces/articleshow/105870965.cms https://www.instagram.com/hnaftali/reel/C0wIk-esPns/ https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/hamas-members-beat-civilians-stole-humanitarian-aid-sent-for-civilians-israel-defence-forces-gaza-war-101702174886917.html "Never be afraid to sit a while and think.” ― Lorraine Hansberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 34 minutes ago, Lila9 said: So, do you support the Israeli state? I support a one-state solution shared by both Jews and Arabs predicated on a constitution defined by principles, rather than the current defacto ethnostate. Or in other words, a return to the borders prior to 1948, but under an Internationally policed mandate rather than a British mandate. (aka International Israel.) Ideally I would like to see a total reboot of the United Nations, and a process of dezionification similar to the denazification process that occurred in Germany post 1945. 34 minutes ago, Lila9 said: This is the conspiracy theory that you want to believe in, but has nothing to do with reality. Notice that in your view, all the people you consider "bad" (Zionists) were cooperating with the Nazis while the people you consider to be "good" (non-Zionists) were the victims of Nazis, this is a polished story to fit your narrative. That's kind of a strawman. But in any case, cooperation between the Zionists and Nazis is well documented. One such example is the Haavara Agreement:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement 34 minutes ago, Lila9 said: Can you hold in your psyche the reality that the gross majority of Holocaust victims and survivors were Zionists and pro-Israel state? That's simply not true. That is quite literally false. The overwhelming majority of Holocaust survivors chose destinations other than Israel/Palestine. (e.g the United States). I recommend you watch this. @Lila9 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 Very informative discussion from a UN aid worker who has just returned from Gaza. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 (edited) 2 hours ago, Lila9 said: This is the conspiracy theory that you want to believe in, but has nothing to do with reality. Notice that in your view, all the people you consider "bad" (Zionists) were cooperating with the Nazis while the people you consider to be "good" (non-Zionists) were the victims of Nazis, this is a polished story to fit your narrative. I think that Japan were co-operating with US in WW2 and the atomic bomb was just a distruction from the REAL co-operation that we couldn't see because of the destruction Edited January 15 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 1 minute ago, Nivsch said: I think that Japan were co-operating with US in WW2 and the atomic bomb was just a distruction from the REAL co-operation that we couldn't see because of the destruction Israelis use the "Why dont Arabs take them, if they do not take them, it means they do not want them so they are bad" type of argument. Let me ask you this, why did Europeans kick out the Jews from Europe in the 1930s? Why they did not take them when they fled Germany? You do realize the Nazis used exactly the same arguments to justify their brutal policies, "Look these European countries do not want Jews either, therefore look how bad they are". How would you respond to this argument? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 1 hour ago, Karmadhi said: why did Europeans kick out the Jews from Europe in the 1930s? Do you mean Nazi germany. 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Karmadhi said: You do realize the Nazis used exactly the same arguments to justify their brutal policies As long as you do this comparison you should not expect a willingness to discuss from any Israeli or a reasonable person here that I hope they won't fall into this trap. Edited January 15 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 (edited) 1 hour ago, kenway said: I support a one-state solution shared by both Jews and Arabs predicated on a constitution defined by principles, rather than the current defacto ethnostate. Then you support a total collapse of Israel western values that will turn backwards women rights by centuries and maybe also will lead to the execution of LGBTQ. Ok. That is your opinion. Edited January 15 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 (edited) 3 hours ago, Lila9 said: This is the freedom fighters that you hype. Terrorists are terrorists, not only dangerous to others, but also to their own people. https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/middle-east/palestinian-territories/1702285314-caught-on-camera-hamas-terrorists-steal-humanitarian-aid-beat-civilians https://m.economictimes.com/news/international/world-news/hamas-members-beat-civilians-steal-humanitarian-aid-received-from-intl-organisations-israel-defence-forces/articleshow/105870965.cms https://www.instagram.com/hnaftali/reel/C0wIk-esPns/ https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/hamas-members-beat-civilians-stole-humanitarian-aid-sent-for-civilians-israel-defence-forces-gaza-war-101702174886917.html But hamas are angels freedom fighters that throw gays from rooftops that treatens their freedom, rape women for the freedom of sexuality and executed hundreds of PLO people to ensure their freedom in Gaza. Edited January 15 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 6 minutes ago, Nivsch said: Then you support a total collapse of Israel western values that will turn backwards women rights by centuries and maybe also will lead to the execution of LGBTQ. Ok. That is your opinion. No. Providing it was done carefully and intelligently such protections would be a fundamental aspect of the protocol - that is to say embedded into the (principal-led) constitution by default, as well as policed by a more effective rebooted International legal system. You're thinking from a position of fear and prejudice. Besides, I don't think there is much alternative. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 In any event, you still don't get it. Ontologically speaking you will experience the experience of all the Jews and you will experience the experience of all the Palestinians. That should be your guiding motivator. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 1 hour ago, Nivsch said: Do you mean Nazi germany. No I mean many European countries did not want to take the Jews that the Nazis kicked. Why so? I am not saying that Jews were bad, I am saying exactly that the argument "why dont these people take these guys" does not mean anything. Just like Jews were not bad and still Europe did not take them, Palestinians are not bad and Arabs do not take them. And unlike Jews in Europe back then, Palestinians have indeed their own land and state so no reason for them to leave on the first place. 59 minutes ago, Nivsch said: Then you support a total collapse of Israel western values I live in the West and I do not recall the government here to sterlize black women without their consent so they will not reproduce, the same way Israel did for Ethiopian Jews. Western values my ass... Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent | The Independent | The Independent Forced contraception of Jewish Ethopian women is tip of global iceberg | Lisa Hallgarten | The Guardian Some links from Western Media in case you do not believe me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 Bernie Sanders urges Biden to revoke unconstrained financial support for Israel: 'Killing children is not the solution' Sen. Bernie Sanders says President Joe Biden needs to be tougher on Israel amid the war in Gaza. Sanders admonished Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu, who recently promised "nobody will stop us." 100 days into war, Israel's retaliation has killed nearly 24,000 Palestinians, 10,000 of them kids. "The wise seek wisdom, a fool has found it." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 15 (edited) 24000 (~10,000 of them are hamas combatants) are the result of Israel's attacks on hamas and hamas's fortifications, combined with hamas's interest and constant efforts from day one to maximize civilians casualties as much as it can because this is their life's job in this war, because they know this is the only thing that can stop Israel from eliminating them. Edited January 15 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
