Posted January 13 @zazen Finkelstein talking about the Israeli defense now. Quote: "South Africa concentrated on the facts. Israel concentrated on the law." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13 (edited) @kenway Good video, seems like the end result they predict will be a middle road taken by the judges - claiming in soft terms that genocide is underway but minimal measures will be applied in stopping it. The problem is one also of enforcement and entrenched interests. No one in the Middle East is interested in war escalation counter to the stereotypical claim of Muslims being violent - on the contrary the region has been calling for de-escalation, ceasefire and negotiations. Hezbollah had also only addressed Israel to say they will only retaliate in proportion and never in excess. South Africa are proactively protesting legally and Yemen economically by their blockade for which the US/UK are intervening militarily and with violence. If the elites ignore public protest, intervene through anti-BDS laws and now militarily to Yemens economic blockade - can people really wonder why unjust terrorist acts and violence occur as a means of seeking justice? The message sent is that the only price they understand is a blood price - even then, the US economy being oriented towards being a war machine will feed on that blood to as usual benefit the few at the expense of the many. WCSF (wounded child no surviving family) - a new acronym born from Israel’s Gaza onslaught. If they can’t re-define words at least they’ve created a new acronym, but one that isn’t the contribution or win they think it is. Edited January 13 by zazen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13 (edited) 2 hours ago, zazen said: If the elites ignore public protest, intervene through anti-BDS laws and now militarily to Yemens economic blockade - can people really wonder why unjust terrorist acts and violence occur as a means of seeking justice? Which (to me) invokes a deeper anxiety. Aside the already escalating anxiety of a broader regional war, it would be uncomfortably convenient for a 9/11 type attack to take place somewhere on western soil right now, fitting into the narrative as: "Well this is obviously revenge for the genocide." In that instance, not only would the case for peace be wiped from the collective consciousness (amid the chaos and cacophony of all that followed), it would also mean that anyone who ever stood up for the Palestinians would be tarnished as though they were the terrorists themselves. Edited January 13 by kenway Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13 @Danioover9000 Yeah I understand you, I was mainly referring to when people use the model to paint entire nations with a stage or two and then start to justify why those peoples' lives are not as worthy and don't deserve to have sovereignty as @zazen mentioned as an example, or why violence and oppression is the only solution to deal with them. If anything the emergence of red stage is due to the constant threat of violence, so purposefully inhibiting the development or a certain group and then blaming them for it to keep them in this cycle sounds very devilish to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13 (edited) @Raze This video provides interesting points to discuss along with other weaker claims and of course dismissing of any hamas and palestinians responsibility in this tango. However this is light years away from the persecution's original accusation anyway. There is a deep and intersting to me psychological issue with the passion when people want to blame Israel that is still never the same as another war zones discussion where the situation is far worse Edited January 13 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13 "The lesson of the Holocaust, is not that you should defend Israel when it is committing atrocities, but rather that one should stand against atrocities regardless of who commits them, and who endures them." - Riyad Mansour Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13 19 hours ago, Nivsch said: Israel's response was so much more directive, broad in their context that could keep a sensible and healthy structure all along the way, calm even, confident and to the point. For me it is very clear. This is not to say there are no problems need to be addressed as I said before in my comment to the video of ex-IDF soldier @Raze added, but the whole accusation of "genocide" is an entire house of cards. Absolutely ridiculous. https://www.instagram.com/reel/C18_7x8th4j/?igsh=MTJicHZpNHdvMjhu "Never be afraid to sit a while and think.” ― Lorraine Hansberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13 Someone who have never been here or lived here calling our state an Apartheid lol. https://www.instagram.com/reel/C19o4YQI408/?igsh=MWxob3drY2ZlaDg2eg== "Never be afraid to sit a while and think.” ― Lorraine Hansberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13 I found this really fascinating. Pretty neutral too, so no propaganda here. Maybe @Leo Gura might enjoy too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13 (edited) 33 minutes ago, kenway said: I found this really fascinating. Pretty neutral too, so no propaganda here. Maybe @Leo Gura might enjoy too. Pretty neutral 😂🤣 Man why can't you do it a bit more sophisticatly and at least add some regular videos of regular Israelis (not just weirdous) and show the problems there? You will appear much more reliable. For your favor I am saying. Edited January 13 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Nivsch said: Pretty neutral 😂🤣 Man why can't you do it a bit more sophisticatly and at least add some regular videos of Israelis (not just weirdous) and show the problems there? You will be seen much more reliable. For your favor I am saying. Dude you are so bad faith, and frankly a little bit paranoid. If you cannot see that I posted that video in good faith then you are beyond redemption. What am I doing that is supposed to be "sophisticated?" You're looking for agency and propaganda where there is none, which I think is exactly what @Danioover9000 was referring to when talking about the polarised mindset. It's precisely the desire to escape the polarized mindset that I thought the video would be interesting to everyone in this thread, remain topical, but be free from the typical biases that this thread has gotten used to. Did you even watch the video? (again). Edited January 13 by kenway Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13 (edited) I tried to think on a serious answer but I see no point and really couldnt find one. I cant relate to that seriously. If you can't see or admit the problem to yourself then OK. Keep in your way and do not disturb yourself. Edited January 13 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13 (edited) FOR ANYONE IN THIS THREAD Would anyone active in this thread please adjudicate on whether the video I posted above was neutral or biased in any way? As an additional, please could you pass commentary on whether you feel I posted in good or bad faith. Thankyou. Edited January 13 by kenway Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13 48 minutes ago, kenway said: FOR ANYONE IN THIS THREAD Would anyone active in this thread please adjudicate on whether the video I posted above was neutral or biased in any way? As an additional, please could you pass commentary on whether you feel I posted in good or bad faith. Thankyou. I think it wasn’t obvious that you were posting the video in an attempt to show “a side” of the Israeli society, they way Leo posts videos on his blog for example, but instead it looked like you were saying this is how a natural Israel looks like meaning this is the everyday Israel. its like you posted about the amish community in the US and said this is what a neutral America looks like. You said it has no propaganda which was true and I though it was “neutral” in the sense you where not saying Israel bad or good but just showing one side you found interesting. I think @Nivsch was a bit sensitive/jumped too quickly. Ps: I thought they way they speak Hebrew is nice, I like languages. I think @Nivsch you should post what you perceives as neutral Israel as you live there. I’m both interested in general and just to see what side of Israel you are you most exposed to. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13 (edited) @Happy Lizard The video is light years away from daily Israel. But I don't want to force anybody to think in some way or another or to see beyond his or her heavy filters. I live here 36 years and the degree this is so far from average Israel was the reason I laughed so hard, from the absurdity 🙂 Your Idea is good and I will definitly do it. Thank you for your sincere desire to know and that you are open. I appreciate this. Edited January 13 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13 @Nivsch The irony is that I found every person in that video to be fundamentally beautiful in some way or another. You complain about not showing regular Israelis. But if by “regular Israelis” you mean people like yourself, then I can only conclude that “regular Israelis” are total fucking assholes. I’ll take my chances with the “weirdos” thanks. @Happy Lizard Good synopsis. And thank-you for replying I appreciate your time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13 (edited) @kenwayI understand you were hurted from what I said. If I was wrong I am apologize and take my claim about your intention back. Don't take it personally. I feel an enormous hypocricy and dehumanization from the discussion here about Israel many times, and it might be that you just don't see this and that you acted from good intentions. So please just stay with what I wrote about the video (minus the relation to you which I erase now from the discussion and from the message). Have a good night. Here it is night anyway. Edited January 13 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 13 28 minutes ago, Nivsch said: @kenwayI understand you were hurted from what I said. If I was wrong I am apologize and take my claim about your intention back. Don't take it personally. I feel an enormous hypocricy and dehumanization from the discussion here about Israel many times, and it might be that you just don't see this and that you acted from good intentions. So please just stay with what I wrote about the video (minus the relation to you which I erase now from the discussion and from the message). Have a good night. Here it is night anyway. Okay that's fine. Have a good night. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
