New War In Israel / Gaza

[Nivsch]

Just now, Danioover9000 said:

   Israel is definitely Spiral Dynamics stage red and blue mostly, with some orange and tiny green, not freaking blue-orange-green, that's not how colour theory works.

Well then you obviously don't know Israel.

[Danioover9000]

@Space

4 hours ago, Space said:

Honestly I don't really pay attention to current affairs and politics. Not that you or anyone else shouldn't, but I choose to focus on other things. So I don't have anything interesting to say about this video or the war in general.

Too much to do, not enough time.

   Fair enough. I do the same, only 30-20 minutes of news and rest I do things towards my LP, and mental and physical training.

[Danioover9000]

@Nivsch

Just now, Nivsch said:

Well then you obviously don't know Israel.

   Who asked you, and again who are you??? 

 

@Karmadhi

13 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

There is 1 thing that disturbs me.

If Israeli people support the murder of Palestinian civilians in Gaza because "they attacked and killed us", then by that same logic, it is acceptable for people in Gaza to support Hamas murder of Israeli civilians because "they took our land, kicked us out and killed us". 

Fundamentally Israelis, many of them see that people in Gaza support Hamas and therefore in their mind it is ok for their civilians to be killed. 

But the same logic can also be applied to Palestinians. Since most Israelis support Zionism and their government under Benjamin, is it acceptable for them for civilians to be killed too?

So where does this end?

   Hopefully it stops with the UN tribunal and their ruling. Will you watch?

[kenway]

3 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@kenway

   What time will the hearing air? Will you be eating some popcorn?

So it's spread out over two days. South Africa makes its case on Thursday. Israel makes its defense on Friday.

Each session begins at 9:30am European Time (3:30am ET / 10:30am IL / 8:30am UK) on both days.

Hearings will be livestreamed on UN Web TV - https://webtv.un.org/en

Will I be eating popcorn? Haha probably yes lol.

I'm really interested in seeing where the Israeli defense goes with this. It's almost certainly going to involve some kind of BS wall-to-wall horseshit.

If the defense attorney has any professional self-respect he should really just plead guilty.

[kenway]

 

[Bobby_2021]

1 hour ago, Karmadhi said:

You need to understand that what is a "terrorist" is relative.

To you Houthis are terrorists and USA is helping against terrorism.

To others USA and Israel are terrorists and the Houthis are helping against terrorism.

As a fan of Leo's work (since you are on this forum) , I am sure you can comprehend this.

 

I can comprehend that. You can comprehend that. But I don't think actual terrorists would compreh that. They are living in a one dimensional world.

If both sides are terrorists, then the bigger terrorist should eventually win.

You don't need to bring relativity into war.

You appreciate the concept of relativity because there is a big bad govt with disproportionate power who will fuck anyone up in case they are disrupting the peace and social order.

That peace was established only through violence. 

[Bobby_2021]

Jews with all their remarkable talent and skill choose the middleast east as their place.

The world would have benefited immensely had they built their homes somewhere safe. As of now endless wars are the only thing in sight.

I can only hope the finish what they started for good. Peace must be enforced with violence. 

Peace and order is of primary importance. 

 

[Nivsch]

@Danioover9000 I live in Israel...

Edited January 10 by Nivsch

[kenway]

 

Just released.

A pretty good analysis from Counterpoints on how the ICJ hearing will go.

I agree with the synopsis, but there are some caveats.

 

[zazen]

@Danioover9000 @kenway I think Norman Finkelstein will be commentating the hearing live.

Most people won’t read the full 80 page South African document so here’s a tweet thread with interesting parts:

Apparently this is one of their defences:

Edited January 10 by zazen

[kenway]

 

@zazen

Yes, with a preview tonight.

 

Edit: Looking at the times / timezones I can't see how this would be a live commentary but worth seeing nonetheless.

Edited January 10 by kenway

[Happy Lizard]

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

@Karmadhi Israelis can say things from an extreme rage but in their default mind state of 95-99% of Israelis they (my feeling from 36 years here) will never support a murder of civilians.

But within the culture of the palestinians the whole values and grasp of what is a human and what is humanity the picture is drastically different.

I was thinking to myself, since I don’t personally know any Israelites irl. I could not find a frame where I can have an Israeli friend. Since i’ve worked with Palestinian here in the US, and I know some Persian people; It will be so out of frame for me, and the reason is your government that gives your people a bad reputation. See this a problem that you all should be concerned about. I don’t mind Israeli people at all, and I know that my Persian friends are not anti-semites, even the Palestinian - but they do hate your government- yet because of the policies of your government and how shielded Israelites form the ugliness outside of your boarders this will/already does isolate you and will have other people that see you unlike you see your people.

How do you know now with this war that more people will start to avoid knowing you? I’ve seen so many nationalities against this war not just arabs.

 

 

 

 

[Nivsch]

@Happy Lizard I am with you on that.

This is why the "Israel" this forum see is not even close to the real Israel I know.

From that comes the frustration.

In a sense this radical governemt hijacked the whole country and society and decided for it how it will be grasped.

And the more radical the person the more titles he will get. This completely distorts and hides the true face of our society.

Edited January 10 by Nivsch

[kenway]

 

 

On the eve of this moment that will define history.

We are all on the cusp of change and it feels amazing.

[Happy Lizard]

@Nivsch great, I had a sense that you are perceiving the criticism for the Israeli government as criticism for the people. I believe in your society too and  in all what you say, and for this reason exactly I think you should be taking the position of a targeting campaign or less distractive war. It’s tragic and criminal what happened to your people. 
 

my view is that the situation is not simple. It’s a challenge for all of us even people not in that geographical location to hold what is happening and see all parts. 

 

[Karmadhi]

3 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

Israel is definitely Spiral Dynamics stage red and blue mostly, with some orange and tiny green, not freaking blue-orange-green, that's not how colour theory works.

To be honest, Israel to me seems a mix between blue and orange with an extremely toxic blue government and army. Little Green in it since they do allow LGBT and stuff but not much. I heard they are also somewhat racist towards darker skin Jews (like the Ethiopian sterilizing thingy)  and Palestinian Arabs. The settlers are definetly blue religious' fanatics since they use their holy books to justify devilry, classic stuff.

Just because a country is above red does not mean they are not capable of genocide, ethnic cleansing and horrible war crimes.

Ethnic cleansing, which Israel is defiantly doing (I literally sent sources of what their ministers want) is a blue activity. 

Bombing of civilians can happen both in Blue and Orange.

I am still unsure whether there is genocide happening in Gaza right now, but definately genocidal actions have been happening like collective punishment.

Red is characterized by "barbaric" type of violence. For example cutting heads, burning people alive etc. I have not seen many reports from the IDF doing such stuff. It is usually either shooting people or bombing them. 

Red would be Mongolian hordes or Japan in Asia (Rape of Nanking etc). Blue would be Nazi Germany and to some extent the USSR.

However I feel like Israel has a deep rooted blue component since its foundation. Being accused of stealing land by all its neighboors and fighting wars for decades while being called a theft has caused them as a society to fundamentally see Palestinians as lesser. Otherwise the guilt would be too big and they would crumble as a country. This view of Palestinians as "uncivilized beasts" is how blue sees red (leo made a video about this).

If Israel was truly green, it would feel sorry for Palestinians, see them as victims. That is how Green sees Red. As victims, sometimes a bit too naively. This is how I see them (I consider myself mostly Green with some orange) and that causes me to side with them hardcore on this war.

Although I would not put all Palestinians as red. I think Hamas is definately a hardcore toxic Red and maybe some people in Gaza that support Hamas fully are red but I think most of them have a lot of blue in them. Especially the ones in the West Bank I would put mostly blue.

We have a clash of two blue societies and that causes so much hatred. Blue against blue is the worst combination when it comes to solving conflicts. Two mules.

@Nivsch Would like also your output on this text since I wrote a lot.

Edited January 10 by Karmadhi

[kenway]

 

1 hour ago, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu spoke to the nation.

 

 

[Danioover9000]

@Karmadhi

20 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

To be honest, Israel to me seems a mix between blue and orange with an extremely toxic blue government and army. Little Green in it since they do allow LGBT and stuff but not much. I heard they are also somewhat racist towards darker skin Jews (like the Ethiopian sterilizing thingy)  and Palestinian Arabs. The settlers are definetly blue religious' fanatics since they use their holy books to justify devilry, classic stuff.

Just because a country is above red does not mean they are not capable of genocide, ethnic cleansing and horrible war crimes.

Ethnic cleansing, which Israel is defiantly doing (I literally sent sources of what their ministers want) is a blue activity. 

Bombing of civilians can happen both in Blue and Orange.

I am still unsure whether there is genocide happening in Gaza right now, but definately genocidal actions have been happening like collective punishment.

Red is characterized by "barbaric" type of violence. For example cutting heads, burning people alive etc. I have not seen many reports from the IDF doing such stuff. It is usually either shooting people or bombing them. 

Red would be Mongolian hordes or Japan in Asia (Rape of Nanking etc). Blue would be Nazi Germany and to some extent the USSR.

However I feel like Israel has a deep rooted blue component since its foundation. Being accused of stealing land by all its neighboors and fighting wars for decades while being called a theft has caused them as a society to fundamentally see Palestinians as lesser. Otherwise the guilt would be too big and they would crumble as a country. This view of Palestinians as "uncivilized beasts" is how blue sees red (leo made a video about this).

If Israel was truly green, it would feel sorry for Palestinians, see them as victims. That is how Green sees Red. As victims, sometimes a bit too naively. This is how I see them (I consider myself mostly Green with some orange) and that causes me to side with them hardcore on this war.

Although I would not put all Palestinians as red. I think Hamas is definately a hardcore toxic Red and maybe some people in Gaza that support Hamas fully are red but I think most of them have a lot of blue in them. Especially the ones in the West Bank I would put mostly blue.

We have a clash of two blue societies and that causes so much hatred. Blue against blue is the worst combination when it comes to solving conflicts. Two mules.

@Nivsch Would like also your output on this text since I wrote a lot.

   I was being facetious to the other guy, just seeing lots of distorted and inaccurate takes and weaponizing Spiral Dynamics to reverse justify the evil actions of one egoic nation.

[Danioover9000]

@kenway

6 minutes ago, kenway said:

 

1 hour ago, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu spoke to the nation.

 

 

   Damn, that's a tired looking face, maybe tired of all thee self BS he's told himself. Can't argue with that, if I'm his soul I'd wanna leave the body too, GET ME OUTTA HERE! FREE ME FROM THE LIES I TELL MYSELF ON THE DAILY!!

   Also, interesting video, always nice to see politicians squirm:

 

[Danioover9000]

   I'll say this again, to be clear, for both the pro Palestinians and the pro Israeli, both you lot don't like HAMAs right? Don't like stage blue to red terrorists right? IMO, USA and western countries like UK for example fucked up here, choosing to leave it to IDF and Israel to sort out HAMMAs in West Bank and mostly in Gaza, leaving them to being too aggressive and killing way more women and children and destroying buildings and denying them water per HAMMAs fighter. So IMO the fuck up started when USA/UK and other countries allied with Israel didn't get militarily involved, what should have happened is a coastal base close to Gaza and West Bank. Military presence from other countries nearby would have, and asking pro Israel people here, would have helped out a bit more, and pro Palestinians here, because of outside military presence that's not IDF, would have deterred IDF from bombing too many buildings no?