Posted January 9 11 minutes ago, Nivsch said: Not logical. When we had to release only 1 soldier (Gilad Shalit) we needed to release 1000+ terrorists. So now they would just agree to free 240 for couple of thousands? This is La la land. Small price to pay for your countrymen held hostage that you say you care about. Give them anything to get those people home to their families. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 9 2 minutes ago, Raze said: The girls pictured here were IDF soldiers https://www.timesofisrael.com/presumed-captive-daniella-gilboa-identified-by-the-shirt-she-wore/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/taken-captive-liri-albag-seen-in-hamas-video-being-abducted/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/taken-captive-agam-berger-seen-being-led-to-a-car-still-dressed-in-her-pajamas/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/taken-captive-karina-ariev-told-parents-continue-your-lives/ it’s unfortunate Israels government puts its own youth at such risk by refusing to agree to a peaceful solutions with Palestinians and expecting their young to face the brunt of the attacks as a result There was a ceasefire, it has been broken by Hamas. Hamas are not realible. Hamas are not interested in peace, it's so delulu and disconnected from reality to believe they care about peace. 2 minutes ago, Raze said: Westerners cannot put pressure on Hamas, they have no connection. Tactically it only makes sense to pressure the US government as they are supporting Israel which is currently bombing Gaza and have killed multiple hostages as well as putting the rest at risk. They can start from stoping support Hamas, donating money to them under the cover of "human rights organizations" and UNRA and put more pressure on Hamas leadership to release the hostages. "Never be afraid to sit a while and think.” ― Lorraine Hansberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 9 (edited) 8 hours ago, Happy Lizard said: @Nivsch form all of what I read form your posts I see a clear dislike/hate of Arabs/Palestinians. This is rendering your judgment/view empty. what use is all the facts if at the end of the day if you just can’t stand the other side? You are also conveniently putting all Palestinian and Hamas in the same bucket making all the victims “their” people/property. Could there not be a bias here and is exactly what most in this thread have been pointing out? Ironically this is making all your facts and worldview highly emotional with the same flaws you’ve been pointing out in the narrative of the other side. What you wrote is applying to both sides in the argument here. But at least I am not denying problems of our side, but I stress about context and proportionality of the critisism what I try to do myself. What happens on this thread is not at all a fair nor mature critisism but rather a complete dehumanization based on cherry picked radical examples technique. I dont hate Arabs at all. This is not about arabs at ALL. I have rather an emotional charge on the Palestinians, yes. I know many of them are really innocents including the million brainwhashed toxicated for life poor children. In the other hand, the seperation between hamas and adult Gazans is a myth. Still we have to be careful and not to make generalizations but every survey and even tangible behaviours will show you that hamas ideology is quite well sits in the mind of many of the civilians there. Edited January 10 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 9 3 minutes ago, Merkabah Star said: Small price to pay for your countrymen held hostage that you say you care about. Give them anything to get those people home to their families. But they would not agree that is what I am saying. Because the price they demanded on only 1 soldier was already a thousand. So 240 for thousands? Sounds not realistic to me. I believe if it could happen it would already done. 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 9 5 minutes ago, Merkabah Star said: No one supports Hamas, not even a little bit. Kill all of them, no problem. Terrorists deserve to die. Not civilians. But your country doesn’t care about that because they are demonised like nazi germany demonised Jews and romas. Same thing. That’s the lesson in all this but you can’t see it. What happens when the oppressed becomes the oppressor? I personally dont like from the river to the sea slogan. There is equally bad energy coming from your countrymen about them. Look at the Israeli posters here on this thread. Triggered, delusional, zero compassion, total robots, in complete shock the world isn’t siding with them. It is an eye opener. The only person triggered here is you lol. It's very clear by your immature and toxic comments to my and other pro-Israeli users' posts. "Never be afraid to sit a while and think.” ― Lorraine Hansberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 9 1 minute ago, Lila9 said: There was a ceasefire, it has been broken by Hamas. Hamas are not realible. Hamas are not interested in peace, it's so delulu and disconnected from reality to believe they care about peace. They can start from stoping support Hamas, donating money to them under the cover of "human rights organizations" and UNRA and put more pressure on Hamas leadership to release the hostages. Hamas didn’t break it, Israel rejected Hamas’s offer for the hostage exchange to extend the ceasefire because Israel wanted them to release IDF soldiers. Israel is not interested in peace either, that’s the problem. They’ve been strangling Gaza for decades with the idea that they can just bomb them every time they attack, putting their own citizens at risk over negotiating. no one in the west can support Hamas, it’s illegal to send money to a group the US designates terrorists. Donating to aid to Palestinians isn’t helping Hamas, its trying to stop civilian deaths. Hamas offered to release all hostages if Israel released all Palestinians they have in prison, most without charges, Israel refused. The US can’t put any pressure on Hamas because they have nothing to bargain with. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 9 @Raze No. Israel wanted the women first and hamas refused. 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 9 5 minutes ago, Nivsch said: In the other hand, the seperation between hamas and adult Gazans is a myth. Still we have to be careful and not to make generalizations but every survey and even tangible behaviours will show you that hamas ideology is quite well affects many of the civilians there. The majority of Gazans said they regretted voting Hamas after they won the election, they only voted to protest the PLO which was corrupt and not effectively negotiating for a state because Israel was blocking it. Israel’s government than purposefully supported and strengthened Hamas to divide the Palestinians. Prior to the war the majority of Gazans disapproved of Hamas, only after Israel started bombing do a slight majority approve. Way more approve in the West Bank but again that’s because Israel blocks any chance at freedom in a state for them and forces them to abide by the corrupt PLO. If you have a problem with Hamas, you have a problem with Israel’s policies, they are interconnected. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 9 1 minute ago, Nivsch said: @Raze No. Israel wanted the women first and hamas refused. Yes But they wanted idf women and rejected Hamas’s counter offer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 9 (edited) @Raze Policy of not letting them air and marine ways is justified when a terror organization is in control. Bibi made hamas stronger on that I agree with you. Edited January 9 by Nivsch 🌻 Thinking independently about the spiral stages themselves is important for going through them in an organic, efficient way. If you stick to an external idea about how a stage should be you lose touch with its real self customized process trying to happen inside you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 9 1 minute ago, Raze said: Hamas didn’t break it, Israel rejected Hamas’s offer for the hostage exchange to extend the ceasefire because Israel wanted them to release IDF soldiers. Israel is not interested in peace either, that’s the problem. They’ve been strangling Gaza for decades with the idea that they can just bomb them every time they attack, putting their own citizens at risk over negotiating. no one in the west can support Hamas, it’s illegal to send money to a group the US designates terrorists. Donating to aid to Palestinians isn’t helping Hamas, its trying to stop civilian deaths. Hamas offered to release all hostages if Israel released all Palestinians they have in prison, most without charges, Israel refused. The US can’t put any pressure on Hamas because they have nothing to bargain with. Hamas does not exist in a vacuum. If the world truly wanted to exert pressure on them, they could have. All you wrote are just excuses. Human rights organizations receive a significant amount of money and aid from the West, which ends up in Hamas' hands. Yes, Hamas broke the ceasefire by attacking Israeli soldiers in Gaza. They pretend they want a ceasefire to strengthen themselves and carry out surprising attacks on Israel. "Never be afraid to sit a while and think.” ― Lorraine Hansberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 9 Just now, Nivsch said: @Raze Policy of not letting them air and maritime ways is justified when a terror organization is in control. Except declaring them a terror organization and refusing to agree to a political solution with them on that basis would just lead to them using violence since that is the only option, which is what happened. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 9 1 minute ago, Lila9 said: Hamas does not exist in a vacuum. If the world truly wanted to exert pressure on them, they could have. All you wrote are just excuses. Human rights organizations receive a significant amount of money and aid from the West, which ends up in Hamas' hands. Yes, Hamas broke the ceasefire by attacking Israeli soldiers in Gaza. They pretend they want a ceasefire to strengthen themselves and carry out surprising attacks on Israel. How can the world governments exert pressure on Hamas? They have no connection to Hamas. They can pressure Israel because they are funding them, but Hamas is blacklisted. There is no evidence the current aid is going to Hamas and Israel inspects it That was just Israel’s claim, both sides used violence during the ceasefire. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israeli-troops-fire-at-palestinians-attempting-to-return-to-northern-gaza-during-cease-fire Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 9 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Lila9 said: Hamas does not exist in a vacuum. If the world truly wanted to exert pressure on them, they could have. All you wrote are just excuses. Human rights organizations receive a significant amount of money and aid from the West, which ends up in Hamas' hand Correct, so why do they exist and what are they resisting? The same human rights organisations that talk about what Israel is doing and claim it as an occupation and apartheid to which Israelis deny and call anti-Semitic. From today: The West have literally no idea how to defend Israel’s actions when probed properly like above. Snowden commenting on the situation now: Edited January 9 by zazen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 9 @Lila9 I’m not triggered even a little bit. Lmao. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 9 1 minute ago, Raze said: How can the world governments exert pressure on Hamas? They have no connection to Hamas. They can pressure Israel because they are funding them, but Hamas is blacklisted. There is no evidence the current aid is going to Hamas and Israel inspects it That was just Israel’s claim, both sides used violence during the ceasefire. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israeli-troops-fire-at-palestinians-attempting-to-return-to-northern-gaza-during-cease-fire Putting diplomatic and economic pressure on the states that fund, aid, and justify Hamas, as well as exerting pressure on their leadership and all organizations covertly working with them. There is a lot of evidence that Hamas is using humanitarian aid for Gaza for their purposes. https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/the-hamas-terrorist-organization/hamas-exploitation-of-humanitarian-aid/ "the U.N. was unable to exercise strict control over how the money was allocated, and that it enabled Hamas to use tax revenue and other funds to build up its military arm" “All the funds that were supposed to go to the public, most of it went to their military capability" https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/gaza-plagued-poverty-hamas-no-shortage-cash-come-rcna121099 "Never be afraid to sit a while and think.” ― Lorraine Hansberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 9 1 hour ago, Lila9 said: I'm afraid to know what these innocent girls are going through in Hamas captivaty. Per the testemonies of the realeased hostages, Hamas terrorists are sexually abusing girls and young women. Such devilry, everything is justified to "free Palestine". Gross. Israeli bombs kill more civilians in Gaza per day than Hamas has captives in Palestine. Why you make such a big deal about them? 100 is way smaller number than 20.000. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 9 21 minutes ago, zazen said: Correct, so why do they exist and what are they resisting? They would like to destroy Israel. 21 minutes ago, zazen said: The same human rights organisations that talk about what Israel is doing and claim it as an occupation and apartheid to which Israelis deny and call anti-Semitic. They are not objective as they claim to be, they have an agenda, a pro-Palestine and anti-Israel agenda. "Never be afraid to sit a while and think.” ― Lorraine Hansberry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 9 5 minutes ago, Lila9 said: They are not objective as they claim to be, they have an agenda, a pro-Palestine and anti-Israel agenda You are delusional if you think they have a pro Palestinian agenda. Why would they have an agenda for people that are poor, have no power, no support, no nothing? What do they gain from it? Think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
