Posted January 6 2 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said: Just look at how pathetic Pakistan have become by funding terrorists. Now no one even wants to invest in Pakistan because of terrorism. They could only go downward from here. Heck even US funded and keeps funding Pakistan despite India warning them not to. So yeah even the US funded terrorists. One a side note, US funded Pakistan to counter the Geopolitical influence of India in the region. Right now, they decreased the funding significantly for good. That state is one good shit show and devilry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 6 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said: Israel not only has to right to defend itself in the present, but also to protect itself from any future attacks from these radical groups. Who knows what they are going to pull up in the future. Again, rights are meaningless in this context. Quote If you bomb my house, then I will immediately regress to stage red when I used to be stage yellow thinker my whole life prior and I would have to resort to barbaric measures to ensure my safety. The modern free world not built on inclusivity, but radical intolerance to a few things. One of them being terrorism. The only way to confront terror is with even more terror. How else do you think you establish peace? The superior altruistic entity has to use terror if the circumstance demands it. This just isn't true. The correct way to confront terror is with defense and logic, not more terror. Quote You have no idea what these people would do if they are allowed to grow unchecked. Do you know what would happen if Iran developed nuclear weapons, and Hamas gets hold of it somehow? Would they think twice of anything like we do? All these are dreaded possibilities that terrorism makes possible. Fear, speculation and prejudice. Quote If someone slaps you, then you would also regress to a lower stage to cope with the situation. This applies to countries as well. This is standard spiral dynamics. It is easy to criticize Israel from your cozy room. In reality, you would behave exactly the same if you are viscously assaulted. You will do anything to stop them from assaulting you further. That is what Israel is doing. Your reptilian brain will make the decisions once you are assaulted. The correct response when someone slaps you is to run away. Defense without suffering. Remember, that the one who is attacking you, is you. Quote The reptilian mind knows only even more terror. So it is a damn good idea to not poke the reptilian hive mind, especially if it's the strongest hyper efficient force in the world. I do hope we they wipe out from the map. Even letting 5% of them survive will be a mistake. 100% of them should be exterminated and their tunnels flooded or destroyed with bombs. I do not support bombing children, which would not have happened if Islamic militants choose not to bomb Israel on oct 7. The civilian to combatant ratio is 60--80%. Don't be fooled into thinking that Israel is "accidentally" killing children. They are being deliberately targetted. Edited January 6 by kenway Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 6 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said: That's not how this works. Israel not only has to right to defend itself in the present, but also to protect itself from any future attacks from these radical groups. Who knows what they are going to pull up in the future. If you bomb my house, then I will immediately regress to stage red when I used to be stage yellow thinker my whole life prior and I would have to resort to barbaric measures to ensure my safety. The modern free world not built on inclusivity, but radical intolerance to a few things. One of them being terrorism. The only way to confront terror is with even more terror. How else do you think you establish peace? The superior altruistic entity has to use terror if the circumstance demands it. You have no idea what these people would do if they are allowed to grow unchecked. Do you know what would happen if Iran developed nuclear weapons, and Hamas gets hold of it somehow? Would they think twice of anything like we do? All these are dreaded possibilities that terrorism makes possible. If someone slaps you, then you would also regress to a lower stage to cope with the situation. This applies to countries as well. This is standard spiral dynamics. It is easy to criticize Israel from your cozy room. In reality, you would behave exactly the same if you are viscously assaulted. You will do anything to stop them from assaulting you further. That is what Israel is doing. Your reptilian brain will make the decisions once you are assaulted. The reptilian mind knows only even more terror. So it is a damn good idea to not poke the reptilian hive mind, especially if it's the strongest hyper efficient force in the world. I do hope we they wipe out from the map. Even letting 5% of them survive will be a mistake. 100% of them should be exterminated and their tunnels flooded or destroyed with bombs. I do not support bombing children, which would not have happened if Islamic militants choose not to bomb Israel on oct 7. Given that Israel was blockading Gaza and refusing to let them out, forcing them to stay inside where many had no access to food or clean water, and Israel has bombed Gaza many times throughout the years, by your logic Oct 7 was justified because they have the right to attack those who were attacking them. Quote Do not be fooled by rhetorical words like Hamas, Israel, Gaza. IDF. You are going to get trapped with ideology if you think like that. Think in terms of Spiral Dynamics, Terrorism, Safety and even Occupation. No side is clean and there is plenty of collateral damage, which is also because terrorists use innocent children as shields. I am under no obligation to make sense of the sub ideologies which consists of infighting, backstabbing, treachery. They do not think in reasonable terms. They are terrorists for God's sake. Being a terrorist makes no sense either. You expect them to act in reasonable terms when it is a bunch of deranged individuals and ego games with a grand common agenda/ideology. You are pointing out minor differences between them. In other words, you are missing the content for the structure. USA and Australia are pretty similar in terms of ideology, beliefs, standard of living etc. They are functionally the same and they look the same. You want me to call them different because it is summer in December. Australia, UK, US, NZ, Canada are all tightly coupled countries which could happen because they are fundamentally the same in ideology and even governance. You can always minor differences that don't really matter. ------ The reptilian response to terrorism is not going to be justifiable or reasonable. Maybe you will bomb surrounding countries too which might have done nothing. You can only say that in retrospect. Most people in US supported the Iraq invasion at the time. This not their well-meaning sane brain thinking. It is a collective knee jerk reaction of the hive mind, which is very real with real consequences for those dumb enough to poke them. So why are you upset about Islamic extremist terrorism? Why can’t Al Queda say it’s ok to commit terrorism towards any secular western country because some secular western country attacked theirs? Can Hamas say they are justified in attacking Israel because the USA attacked Iraq and their response is never going to be logical and it’s the US’s fault for attacking Iraq? You are truly contorting yourself into absurd positions to justify your massive double standard. Quote For their credit, they did accomplish their object by taking out Osama even though they had to bear huge collateral damage. Terrorism itself is unreasonable and make the victims of it unreasonable things as well. So yeah it is not justifiable. Do you think I support Israel in this lol? i do not. They funded terrorists and they paid their price for it. Do not even associate with terrorists because nothing good will ever come from them. They should take their lessons and not fund terrorists. I do not get why people want to fund terrorism. How is this not dead obvious that it will come to bite you back in the ass? Just look at how pathetic Pakistan have become by funding terrorists. Now no one even wants to invest in Pakistan because of terrorism. They could only go downward from here. Heck even US funded and keeps funding Pakistan despite India warning them not to. So yeah even the US funded terrorists. So why don’t you say Israel and the US governments deserve to be exterminated and if any children there are massacred it’s their fault for supporting terrorists? Your logic seems to be the US and Israel are allowed to massacre and torture Muslim countries, even if they do it to a country like Iraq which never attacked nor threatened the US it’s still ok because 9/11 happened and the US can’t be expected to be rational. Yet when the middle eastern rebel groups attack, even if they’re directly attacking the groups that are harming them, it is by default terrorism and they must all be exterminated. it’s just an absurd ideology. It also doesn’t work. You have gotten your way for decades. The US and Israel have bombed and attacked many middle eastern countries and collectively killed millions. Yet terrorist groups and dictators are as large and powerful as ever. What exactly has the US gained security wise from its Middle East misadventures? Does that compensate for the loss of trillions of dollars and thousands of lives? Edited January 6 by Raze Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 6 (edited) @Bobby_2021 1 hour ago, Bobby_2021 said: That's not how this works. Israel not only has to right to defend itself in the present, but also to protect itself from any future attacks from these radical groups. Who knows what they are going to pull up in the future. If you bomb my house, then I will immediately regress to stage red when I used to be stage yellow thinker my whole life prior and I would have to resort to barbaric measures to ensure my safety. The modern free world not built on inclusivity, but radical intolerance to a few things. One of them being terrorism. The only way to confront terror is with even more terror. How else do you think you establish peace? The superior altruistic entity has to use terror if the circumstance demands it. You have no idea what these people would do if they are allowed to grow unchecked. Do you know what would happen if Iran developed nuclear weapons, and Hamas gets hold of it somehow? Would they think twice of anything like we do? All these are dreaded possibilities that terrorism makes possible. If someone slaps you, then you would also regress to a lower stage to cope with the situation. This applies to countries as well. This is standard spiral dynamics. It is easy to criticize Israel from your cozy room. In reality, you would behave exactly the same if you are viscously assaulted. You will do anything to stop them from assaulting you further. That is what Israel is doing. Your reptilian brain will make the decisions once you are assaulted. The reptilian mind knows only even more terror. So it is a damn good idea to not poke the reptilian hive mind, especially if it's the strongest hyper efficient force in the world. I do hope we they wipe out from the map. Even letting 5% of them survive will be a mistake. 100% of them should be exterminated and their tunnels flooded or destroyed with bombs. I do not support bombing children, which would not have happened if Islamic militants choose not to bomb Israel on oct 7. ------- Do not be fooled by rhetorical words like Hamas, Israel, Gaza. IDF. You are going to get trapped with ideology if you think like that. Think in terms of Spiral Dynamics, Terrorism, Safety and even Occupation. No side is clean and there is plenty of collateral damage, which is also because terrorists use innocent children as shields. I am under no obligation to make sense of the sub ideologies which consists of infighting, backstabbing, treachery. They do not think in reasonable terms. They are terrorists for God's sake. Being a terrorist makes no sense either. You expect them to act in reasonable terms when it is a bunch of deranged individuals and ego games with a grand common agenda/ideology. You are pointing out minor differences between them. In other words, you are missing the content for the structure. USA and Australia are pretty similar in terms of ideology, beliefs, standard of living etc. They are functionally the same and they look the same. You want me to call them different because it is summer in December. Australia, UK, US, NZ, Canada are all tightly coupled countries which could happen because they are fundamentally the same in ideology and even governance. You can always minor differences that don't really matter. ------ The reptilian response to terrorism is not going to be justifiable or reasonable. Maybe you will bomb surrounding countries too which might have done nothing. You can only say that in retrospect. Most people in US supported the Iraq invasion at the time. This not their well-meaning sane brain thinking. It is a collective knee jerk reaction of the hive mind, which is very real with real consequences for those dumb enough to poke them. For their credit, they did accomplish their object by taking out Osama even though they had to bear huge collateral damage. Terrorism itself is unreasonable and make the victims of it unreasonable things as well. So yeah it is not justifiable. Do you think I support Israel in this lol? i do not. They funded terrorists and they paid their price for it. Do not even associate with terrorists because nothing good will ever come from them. They should take their lessons and not fund terrorists. I do not get why people want to fund terrorism. How is this not dead obvious that it will come to bite you back in the ass? Just look at how pathetic Pakistan have become by funding terrorists. Now no one even wants to invest in Pakistan because of terrorism. They could only go downward from here. Heck even US funded and keeps funding Pakistan despite India warning them not to. So yeah even the US funded terrorists. Bobby Fischer fishing 21 times, and trawling, while controlling his trolling. How nobody sees this proves, evil deaf-blinded-muted the FOOL. I iconoclastic, you will never last it. I am bombastic, whole your dome's plastic. Plastering rigid rigor mortis takes even Oppenheimer blush would radiate over Barbie doll's hate. Edited January 6 by Danioover9000 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 6 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bobby_2021 said: That's not how this works. Israel not only has to right to defend itself in the present, but also to protect itself from any future attacks from these radical groups. Who knows what they are going to pull up in the future. If you bomb my house, then I will immediately regress to stage red when I used to be stage yellow thinker my whole life prior and I would have to resort to barbaric measures to ensure my safety. The modern free world not built on inclusivity, but radical intolerance to a few things. One of them being terrorism. The only way to confront terror is with even more terror. How else do you think you establish peace? The superior altruistic entity has to use terror if the circumstance demands it. You have no idea what these people would do if they are allowed to grow unchecked. Do you know what would happen if Iran developed nuclear weapons, and Hamas gets hold of it somehow? Would they think twice of anything like we do? All these are dreaded possibilities that terrorism makes possible. If someone slaps you, then you would also regress to a lower stage to cope with the situation. This applies to countries as well. This is standard spiral dynamics. It is easy to criticize Israel from your cozy room. In reality, you would behave exactly the same if you are viscously assaulted. You will do anything to stop them from assaulting you further. That is what Israel is doing. Your reptilian brain will make the decisions once you are assaulted. The reptilian mind knows only even more terror. So it is a damn good idea to not poke the reptilian hive mind, especially if it's the strongest hyper efficient force in the world. I do hope we they wipe out from the map. Even letting 5% of them survive will be a mistake. 100% of them should be exterminated and their tunnels flooded or destroyed with bombs. I do not support bombing children, which would not have happened if Islamic militants choose not to bomb Israel on oct 7 Israel has been doing terrorism oppression in Palestine for decades. So they are fundamentally at fault. The attack on October 7th was Palestine fighting back, Hamas did not start this war. There was oppression and war there for decades. I understand Israel right to defend itself but fundamentally they brough it on themselves. If they had treated Palestinians humanely all these decades the attack would not have happened. It is very manipulaive and ignorant to say "Hamas attacked Israel out of the blue, so it is their fault". Israel is the historical aggressor here. I find it laughable for all the killings of Israel in Palestine for decades to be ignored and when Palestine starts killing some Israeli civilians everyone looses their shit. What happened in October the 7th is not even 1/10 of what Israel has done historically in Palestine. To make things even they need to do 10 more of those attacks which is why their spokesman said "we will do it again if we can". Not that I support those attacks on civilians but I undersand why they happen. Just like I understand Ukraine recently illegally bombing civilians in Russia some days ago considering all the civilian bombings Russia has been doing there for years. Edited January 6 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 6 2 hours ago in Lebanon. Indiscriminate use (A) of white phosphorus (B) against a third civilian population (C) disconnected from Gaza (Lebanon). Like the killing of civilians in the West Bank, it just makes a mockery of Israel's claim of credible military strategy. SA vs IL ICJ hearing in the Netherlands next week. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 6 @kenway But Israel is the most humane country in the region according to some of the genocide supporters in this group Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 6 @kenway 10 minutes ago, kenway said: 2 hours ago in Lebanon. Indiscriminate use (A) of white phosphorus (B) against a third civilian population (C) disconnected from Gaza (Lebanon). Like the killing of civilians in the West Bank, it just makes a mockery of Israel's claim of credible military strategy. SA vs IL ICJ hearing in the Netherlands next week. Oh yeah, white phosphorous grenades are pretty dangerous, as they're known to burn upwards around 2,000 degrees, hot enough to melt metals, that guy's lucky he got away. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 6 1 hour ago, Raze said: Given that Israel was blockading Gaza and refusing to let them out, forcing them to stay inside where many had no access to food or clean water, and Israel has bombed Gaza many times throughout the years, by your logic Oct 7 was justified because they have the right to attack those who were attacking them. You forgot to mention that missiles are flying both ways. Hello. There are missiles targeted at Israel flying over them every single day. Israel would have been cooked if not for the iron dome. The militants were already firing back. Just that they are intercepted at the sky itself. Food, water and supplies were suspended after oct 7. The net worth of hamas leaders are worth $10B. They are no oppressed gang. If they wanted they could have helped them build and support their fellow Muslim community. But nah they built elaborate tunnels funded terrorism. Why is israel given the responsibility for supplying them with food and water. Why can't Iran do it? What should you do with people who want to exterminate you. You blockade them. Is Palestine open to a two state solution? Nope. Then how should israel deal with them. Even Egypt has not lift the blockade. Having a border is not enough of a reason to start an attack. And terrorism has a possibility to spiral out of control into a bigger war. This would happen by design. It's a possibility. 52 minutes ago, Karmadhi said: understand Israel right to defend itself but fundamentally they brough it on themselves. If they had treated Palestinians humanely all these decades the attack would not have happened From a historical perspective, do you think Israel is the only side at fault here? That only if Israel ended the occupation, there would be complete harmony and peace in the region. I am seriously asking to know. Also, are Palestinians open for a two state solution at all? 1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said: @Bobby_2021 Bobby Fischer fishing 21 times, and trawling, while controlling his trolling. How nobody sees this proves, evil deaf-blinded-muted the FOOL. I iconoclastic, you will never last it. I am bombastic, whole your dome's plastic. Plastering rigid rigor mortis takes even Oppenheimer blush would radiate over Barbie doll's hate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 6 58 minutes ago, Karmadhi said: Not that I support those attacks on civilians but I understand why they happen 1) What is the reason for the occupation? 2) Can you guarantee safety for Israel if they end all occupation? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 6 (edited) These are the ICJ justices that will be hearing South Africa's application against Israel next week:- President Joan E. DONOGHUE United States of America Vice-President Kirill GEVORGIAN Russian Federation Judge Peter TOMKA Slovakia Judge Ronny ABRAHAM France Judge Mohamed BENNOUNA Morocco Judge Abdulqawi Ahmed YUSUF Somalia Judge XUE Hanqin China Judge Julia SEBUTINDE Uganda Judge Dalveer BHANDARI India Judge Patrick Lipton ROBINSON Jamaica Judge Nawaf SALAM Lebanon Judge IWASAWA Yuji Japan Judge Georg NOLTE Germany Judge Hilary CHARLESWORTH Australia Judge Leonardo Nemer Caldeira BRANT Brazil In addition, Israel has the right to supply a judge of their choosing, as does South Africa. Edited January 6 by kenway Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 6 Finkelstein had previously commented that France was the wildcard, and that it had the capacity to go either way. Tonight, that may have changed:- https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/it-s-not-up-to-israel-to-determine-the-future-of-gaza-french-foreign-minister/3101634 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 6 https://mearsheimer.substack.com/p/genocide-in-gaza Recent post by John Mearsheimer: "For the record, I believed Israel was guilty of serious war crimes--but not genocide—during the first two months of the war, even though there was growing evidence of what Bartov has called “genocidal intent” on the part of Israeli leaders.5 But it became clear to me after the 24-30 November 2023 truce ended and Israel went back on the offensive, that Israeli leaders were in fact seeking to physically destroy a substantial portion of Gaza’s Palestinian population." 'seeking to physically destroy a substantial portion of Gaza’s Palestinian population' which clearly fits the Geneva convention definition of Genocide. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 6 @lina 12 minutes ago, lina said: https://mearsheimer.substack.com/p/genocide-in-gaza Recent post by John Mearsheimer: "For the record, I believed Israel was guilty of serious war crimes--but not genocide—during the first two months of the war, even though there was growing evidence of what Bartov has called “genocidal intent” on the part of Israeli leaders.5 But it became clear to me after the 24-30 November 2023 truce ended and Israel went back on the offensive, that Israeli leaders were in fact seeking to physically destroy a substantial portion of Gaza’s Palestinian population." 'seeking to physically destroy a substantial portion of Gaza’s Palestinian population' which clearly fits the Geneva convention definition of Genocide. Yeah, that bit from John Mearsheimer was suspicious. I respect his take on the Ukraine/Russia conflict and it being the west's fault, but I don't know why he won't stand with what the UN and South Africa's legal battle charging Israel's genocide acts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 6 @kenway 1 hour ago, kenway said: Relevant. What do you think is the probability of Israel being found guilty in this UN tribunal case? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 6 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said: @lina Yeah, that bit from John Mearsheimer was suspicious. I respect his take on the Ukraine/Russia conflict and it being the west's fault, but I don't know why he won't stand with what the UN and South Africa's legal battle charging Israel's genocide acts. According to the article I shared, it look like he does support it and he seems to have finally reach a conclusion that this looks like an actual case of genocide, but of course as everyone else he doubts the impact of the trial on countries like USA or Israel or if a fair trial would even be allowed. Edited January 6 by lina Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 6 @lina 16 minutes ago, lina said: According to the article I shared, it look like he does support it and he seems to have finally reach a conclusion that this looks like an actual case of genocide, but of course as everyone else he doubts the impact of the trial on countries like USA or Israel or if a fair trial would even be allowed. IMO I think this will be likely. No way USA will just sit back and not twist this to help Israel somehow save face. Unfortunate but that's corruption. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 6 (edited) @lina I just wish there's greater international condemnation for Israel's excessive military acts, I hope this is a wake up call for those Israel Zionists if they really care for international support at this point, they need to find another way to deal with HAMAs without enraging the whole world at the same time, but I doubt even this, hence back to the back and forth of Israel/Palestine conflict. I'm almost morally bankrupt for the both of them, especially Israel I have lost all respect for, and for Palestinians suffering because I'm even starting to find it difficult to understand or empathize with their suffering at this point. Seriously a fucked up situation both are in. Edited January 6 by Danioover9000 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 6 3 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said: From a historical perspective, do you think Israel is the only side at fault here? That only if Israel ended the occupation, there would be complete harmony and peace in the region. I am seriously asking to know. Also, are Palestinians open for a two state solution at all? No of course not but Israel has done most of the fault here by being created at the expense of others. You cannot give a homeless a house by kicking the person that lives there out which is basically what Israel did. People say it is because of the 1948 war but even if Israel was invaded and it won the war, it does not excuse them kicking out 750.000 Palestinians. When France defeated Germany in WW1 it did not kick out 30% of the German population. The number of Palestinians kicked and the land stolen was too high in my opinion. If Israel stopped treating Palestine and especially the West Bank like a terrorist state but instead gave those in West Bank same rights as Jews and treated them within international law it would improve a lot. No snipping childreen or illegal settlements. I think moderate parts in Palestine do want a two state solution but ideally it would be a 50/50 or 60/40 split. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
